CT Is Luke stronger than Vader?

Luke defeated vader because he was out of control if vader was not in his life supporting armour, lukee has no chance against him

 

So all you have to do in a lightsaber fight is lose control and you'll win, even if you're weaker than your opponent?

 

When your out of control you would be very aggressive and your opponment would find it diifcult like for e.g. episode 1 when darth maul killed qui gon, obi wan was out of control he got so aggressive he even managdd to cut mauls saberstaff in half and could of over powered him if maul didnt force push him and another examplr anakin vs barris offee in TCW see how agressive anakin was at the end he defeated barris because he was out of control for what barris did to ashoka

 

I agree that to an extent you can surprise your opponent with sudden aggression, but I still don't think it would do you any good if there were some huge gap in strength between the two of you. In other words, in order for that to work, you have to at least be close to your opponent's level.

(I haven't seen that TCW episode, so I can't really comment on that.)

 

The fact Luke over powered Vader is quite impossible even with force rage, he simply wasn't at the same level of fighting as Vader. Vader had mastered every fighting style there was, and i mean he mastered them!! Luke had 3 years of intense training sure but while he was training so was Vader, Vader wouldn't have just sat there doing nothing for 3 years.

and the argument that his armour made him slower is invalid, it made him stronger and more resistant to sabre attacks and he would use the force to make himself faster and even more stronger on top of having his amour. and with force powers Luke had nothing on Vader and i mean nothing .

plus we need to realize Vader was calm though the whole fight he didn't use the dark-side to his advantage, if Vader had used force rage as well as Luke, lets just say Luke would be nothing but ash on the floor.

 

I bet Vader could definitely bench a lot more with those robot arms of his

 

The fact Luke over powered Vader is quite impossible even with force rage, he simply wasn't at the same level of fighting as Vader. Vader had mastered every fighting style there was, and i mean he mastered them!! Luke had 3 years of intense training sure but while he was training so was Vader, Vader wouldn't have just sat there doing nothing for 3 years.

and the argument that his armour made him slower is invalid, it made him stronger and more resistant to sabre attacks and he would use the force to make himself faster and even more stronger on top of having his amour. and with force powers Luke had nothing on Vader and i mean nothing .

plus we need to realize Vader was calm though the whole fight he didn't use the dark-side to his advantage, if Vader had used force rage as well as Luke, lets just say Luke would be nothing but ash on the floor.

 

And that's with the loss of ALL his limbs. Could you imagine if Vader could use Force Lightning?

 

The only way I can understand Luke being able to beat him is because Vader is conflicted. Otherwise it doesn't make sense. Vader had all this Jedi training and all Luke did was lift rocks in the woods with Yoda.

 

its a shame he cant use quite afew different force abilitys because of that suit but it does benefit in other ways

 

Odd question buttttt. Has their ever been a canonical explanation on HOW he defeated Vader? I mean I love how his passion overcame him and he abused Vaders weakness, which was Luke himself, and destroyed him . But has that ever been said especially since the PT and the clone wars shows Anakin as uber.

 

I agree with the people who say he only defeated Vader because of the suit. Luke vs Anakin out of the suit could get beat anyday in my opinion but Luke was very strong at that point and extremely focused and mentally-tough. Vader was having conflicting emotions, didnt know if he could go back to the lightside after all he had done. I say Vader is stronger than Luke but hey thats just me

 

Vader without the suit (ie...not maimed on Mustafar) would mop the floor with Luke or anyone else.

Luke won in ROTJ because he was finally a jedi and Vader is old and crippled.

 

The suit made him better, stronger he wasn't slowed down at all, he would use the force to be at the same speed as his opponents,

belive it or not he killed more jedi in the suit then he did outside of it. he was better in the suit even mastering his own style to become very protective of his suit

 

crippled? dont forget he would have had his suit repaired it had been 3 years, and old isnt an excuse in his suit.

luke also may have been a jedi sure but Vader killed them as his daytime job luke wasnt any special from the rest especially with only 3 year of training

 

For me a lot of this argument is looking at the OT though the eyes of the PT and EU, the former of which especially clearly looked to recon a lot of material.

Look at the OT just by itself and what do we know of Vader? he's a Jedi who turns to the Darkside and a powerful one at that BUT we don't know that he's some kind of super jedi, that's an invention of the PT and his strength is just put down to his family not Anakin being a virgin birth "chosen one". Vader being weakened by being in his suit is never mentioned in the OT either, again that's only something mentioned in the PT to justify a shift to a more acrobatic style.

I think the force generally in the OT is less skill based and more about strength of character and focus, that makes it much more believable that Vader loses to a Luke when he potentially underestimates how angry threatening Leia will make him.

 

makes sense, its just everyone looks at Vader as old and crippled but he really isn't we dont need to see this we know it i mean his job even if we dont see it was to kill the last remaining jedi and he did with ease by the looks of it, but sticking to cannon which is the movies and tv series Vader is still very powerful and luke would have no chance, sure luke used force rage but Vader knew every fighting stlye there was which is all the defence ones making lukes anger nothing more to the fight

 

Luke's anger, mixed with Vader's conflicted emotions, is what helped him win.

Overall, including all the new canon material, Luke is most certainly not on Vader's level - so far (this debate is muted, really, until we begin to see Luke post-RoTJ)

 

really it all comes down to plot points if vader wasnt conflicted, even if luke was angry he still would have lost

 

Luke defeating Vader makes perfect sense in the context of the OT. Many of the arguments here seem to be bringing in non-film references which to me are completely irrelevant (I don't care what is and is not canon as that seems have to changed a lot over the years; I stick with what is in the films).

I actually think the outcome makes sense in the context of the PT as well. People are MASSIVELY overrating the importance of "training". In the films it's pretty consistently reinforced that the abilities of a Jedi are mostly about their inner state and strength, not how many P90X lightsaber videos they've watched. Yoda goes over this in quite a bit of detail in TESB.

I think Luke's inner strength is much better than Vader's in ROTJ... and finally at the end he's able to call on both the light side and the dark side to defeat Vader.... who's clearly at least somewhat conflicted.

Luke then realizes he gave into his anger and refuses to finish off Vader (which is further evidence he was using both sides of the force).


Edit: I think the physical attributes of the duelists aren't that important. If you look at the PT Yoda was a serious badass despite the fact that he was a old, arthritic midget

 

Vaders amour isnt just for supporting his life, it enhances his strength, makes him more durable to lightsabre attacks, his amour wouldn't have weakened him, and lukes angry or not vader mastered ever single fighting style he would have made use of the defensive ones and that would have made lukes anger nothing

 

having only watched the movies and some canon wiki pages on character, luke is pretty powerful even though 3 years is a short time.

but granted even in movies we dont see Vader really doing anything at all apart from fighting luke, but it is explained in the wikis which are George Lucas cannon that he was killing tons of the remaining jedi while luke was growing up making Vader a Bad ass
and personally i dont know what vader was doing the 3 years luke was training but he was most likely doing the same thing Training for his next fight with luke

 

I think the OT shows very well that doubts make a force user weaker, like Luke who failed to lift the X-wing. He was lacking in resolve and belief in himself. So was Vader in ROTJ, he wasn't sure of his path any-more, full of doubt and conflict.