CT Is Luke stronger than Vader?

that makes doubt and self conflict one of the most op things ever, to make a long time sith weak and powerless

 

Well ... yeah.

 

That is true, but Luke was also conflicted himself, between saving his father or doing what Obi-Wan and Yoda asked of him. And that is what makes this duel so good.

In my opinion, Luke is stronger than Vader, but not in the sense of absolute power, but because of his enormous potential, the same potential Palpatine fears it will destroy him. That's why Luke can be so good with almost no training at all. Yoda said himself that Luke needed no more training, being a full fledged Jedi Knight, only missing his final duel with Vader. It was not skill that was missing, but controlling his emotions after using his power and potential.

But all of this maybe will be answered in the next movies or some more books and comics placed after Endor, so we get to know more of Luke's power by that time. I think that the new canon won't change the 'Vader wasn't what he was supposed to become, but his son could become that'.

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To weigh into the debate I would strongly go with those that say Luke would defeat Vader. He was the chosen one and brought to the attention of the rebels by Obi-Wan-Kenobi. Had he turned to the Dark Side the Empire would grow and grow.

 

Luke had the potential to be as strong as Vader would have been had he sustained none of his injuries. That is not to say that Vader was not one of the best lightsaber duelists and Force-wielders in galactic history. In terms of the ability to resist the dark side, embrace love, and control oneself, Luke is stronger than Vader in ROTJ until Vader overcomes his inner conflict and decides to do the right thing.

 

It's been decanonized that Vader's injuries weakened him in the force. They didn't.

Luke simply has a lot of innate power, probably on par with Vader's.

 

I figure Luke beats Vader because he can adapt to any environment and go in for the knock out blow with his lightsaber. Sidious beats Luke because he fights with bolts of electricity. Vader makes sense can beat up Sidious. He would suspect nothing also Vader was trained by his former mentor Obi-Wan so he knows about the light side of the force and does not underestimate its power. Sidious is none the wise and arrogant in his own abilities.

 

There's the issue of trying to reconcile retcons in the PT & even the OT. We were also told by OBW that Anakin was aslo the greatest star pilot in the galaxy, but arguably at this point GL hadn't thought of the plot twist of Vader & Anakin being the same character.

 

can you say for sure who's stronger from the lightsaber duels without considering them as part of the story arc? Luke's defeat at Bespin ,& final victory in ROTJ suit the classic 3 act structure- hero overcomes adversity etc etc

 

Lucas has said since TESB, that Luke's father was a powerful Jedi.

YODA: "Ah, your father. Powerful Jedi was he, hehe. Hmmm. Powerful Jedi, mmm."

It doesn't matter when Lucas came up with it, the fact is that Luke's father was considered a powerful Jedi. The only thing the PT did was put a quantification on it, so that the audience could understand how powerful he was.

 

Luke is not the chosen one.

 

The final battle didn't come down to who was stronger with the force but with a light saber. That's where Vader's injuries hurt him. Now ROTS Anakin would mop the floor with Luke.

 

The force definitely amped up Luke's physical strength as well or otherwise he would not be able to beat down a 7 foot cyborg monster that can lift a grown human with one hand.

 

At that point, Luke is not stronger than Vader. What we see in ROTJ is a combination of Luke basically tapping into the Dark Side briefly and Vader not actually wanting to fight Luke. As I've mentioned in other threads before, Vader has already been trending back to the Light Side of the force, and Luke mentions both on Endor and on the Death Star that he can feel the conflict within him. He doesn't actually want to fight Luke, and we can see once Luke goes into his rage, Vader gives way the entire time and then just hangs on to the railing and lets Luke bash away at him. Now yes, being in the suit hampers his physical abilities a bit, but still the fact remains, he doesn't want to fight Luke.

 

Whatever you might say about force power or lightsaber duelng Luke certainly was not as good as his father when it came to piloting. He crashes land twice in ESB.

 

no.

 

The Emperor does say "He could destroy us" of Luke.

 

At the end of ROTJ after Luke beats Vader the Emperor tells Luke to take his fathers place at his side. This implies to me that even the Emperor saw the strength Luke possessed over his father.

 

Hey thejeditraitor if your not going to provide me the decency of explaining your opposing view than consider yourself rebuked.

 

And the fact Vader was now an older man. Luke was much younger with many years ahead of him. Palpatine was trading in his old toy for a new one.

 

I say they were both equally powerful which is what I like about Luke he wasn't powerful right out of the gate like a certain character in TFA he had struggles and was only able to beat his father by giving into his anger briefly.

 

Really?! Do you have a source?

 

I'm on my phone so quoting is difficult, but it is stated on the first page of "Lords of the Sith" that Mustafar strengthened Vader's connection to the force which is a complete 180 from Lucas' Canon.

 

No, I believe however that the force is sensitive to Han whether he believes in it or not.

Yeah, that mystical energy field was all up in his destiny and his actions all along in my opinion. Blind to the force on a conscious level but still deeply connected to it.

 

We could always have the same argument we do between Darth Sidious fighting Mace Windu with Luke fighting Vader in this instance. Did Vader let Luke win?