Is Mara ruining the relationship between Luke and Leia?

I also don't think none of us are being unfair.

Keep up the good comments Shelly. You have alot have more people that's on your side than you probably think.

 

Shelley He could have comforted Leia through the Force, like he regularly does with Mara. But this is the guy who, when his sister called to him through the Force, was in his wife's ship, oblivious

This is the thing that upsets me the most about Luke and Leia. There is no reason why they can't still have their special connection through the Force, they are twins of course. That was such a big scene in ESB, when Luke calls for Leia and she hears his pleas. And in novels since then, each of them get upset when they can't feel each other through the Force.

So, now comes these NJO authors and they completely disregard this connection because Luke has a super special connection with Mara. It's like he's become deaf to his sister...his twin. They have made it seem that Mara has taken over Leia's place in Luke's Force radar. He doesn't seem to have the special connection with Leia anymore and that's just wrong. He could have special connections with both the main ladies in his life...and I still consider Leia one of his closest relationships. So, why did they (the authors) decide to alter this? I have no idea. What it has done, is make these novels seem less Star Warsy. Luke and Leia are bound by blood and their relationship should be as solid as ever, especially in a crisis.

 

SHELLEY: No, and no. Luke has behaved so abominably toward his sister throughout most of the NJO, to say nothing of his wife's atrocious, disgusting behavior, that I think I'm being too easy on them both.

Fine. We'll just agree to disagree. I think you'd find that you'd get more support if you were a little more moderate. If you admitted that others do have a point now and then and that maybe you weren't remembering a quote exactly perfectly.

I happen to agree that ALL of the Original Trilogy characters and Mara have been written very badly in the NEW JEDI ORDER. I don't think any of them have behaved the way I would expect the characters I know and love to behave. DEL REY has done a terrible disservice to STAR WARS fans of these characters in my opinion. I think you'd accomplish far more if you would address the problem of the terrible characterizations to LFL and DEL REY and ask them to do better. That's my opinion. I think we'd all like the characters a lot better that way. DEL REY has spent so much energy on the young characters, but doesn't seem to care much about the older ones.

 

This is the thing that upsets me the most about Luke and Leia. There is no reason why they can't still have their special connection through the Force, they are twins of course. That was such a big scene in ESB, when Luke calls for Leia and she hears his pleas. And in novels since then, each of them get upset when they can't feel each other through the Force.

You mean the connection which Luke uses to interpret what exactly his sister is trying to do on the planet of Duro during BP? Where he interprets her thoughts rather easily and Mara is surpised at how much he got?

It's a fact that when Leia called to Luke through the Force, Luke was curled up in the cockpit of Mara's ship, oblivious. It's a fact that he chose Mara over Leia when Leia was tortured. Had Mara been the one who was captured, Luke would not have trusted the kids. He'd have hightailed it down there himself, and glued himself to Mara's side. But with Leia, he shrugs and chooses to do...nothing. He doesn't bother to check up on Leia when she's recovering from her torture, either. He doesn't bother to comfort her through the Force, when he "envelopes Mara in his love" when she's merely upset.

Actually he chose the force over his sister.

He doesn't stand up for his sister when, in SbS, his insensitive, self-absorbed wife orders her around like a servant, not caring that she's just lost her youngest child. He doesn't stand up to Mara, period, or question his decision to make her a Jedi master despite her bad temper, her lack of compassion and sensitivity, and violence-laced way of talking. When he makes a feeble attempt to reason with her, all it takes is, "You listen to me, farmboy!" before he backs down.

You mean he doesn't stand up to her when he chooses to go to Coruscant and she says he shouldn't?

Also I am curious. You said BP is all from Mara's point of view. Yet Jacen dominates the book and is the one to be centered around. It is his moment which decides everything.

OWLC

 

Why shouldn't Mara be strong and coolly competent? She was certainly bred for it since diappers. Mara has every reason to be flashy and powerful.

Luke has the "humble" personality; it's okay for him to be uncertain---and before You-Know-Who starts snarling, yes, after decades of Jedihood, no, it's not okay to be indecisive now when the galaxy is falling apart around you.

 

Thanks, MASTERJEDICALRISSIAN and Naccha.

The preferential treatment Luke and Mara have gotten throughout the NJO can be explained by the remarks of Randy Stradley, who said that Luke and the droids were untouchable and killing Han or Leia wouldn't have enough emotional impact, and Mike Stackpole, who said in a DarkHorse.com interview:

MS: And, again, I've said this before--if you are dealing with Mara Jade, you have to be really, really careful because she has literally legions of fans who are dedicated like you wouldn't believe...

SE: How true!

MS: ...and the witness protection program would not save me if I screwed it up (laughs).

 

You mean the connection which Luke uses to interpret what exactly his sister is trying to do on the planet of Duro during BP? Where he interprets her thoughts rather easily and Mara is surpised at how much he got?

Yeah. She's so used to dominating Luke's every thought that she's probably surprised he remembers that...woman, what's her name, his sister or something...even exists.

Actually he chose the force over his sister.

He chose Mara over his sister, just like always.

You mean he doesn't stand up to her when he chooses to go to Coruscant and she says he shouldn't?

Wow...one whole time out of how many books? Keep this up, and he might start to resemble something other than a doormat.

Also I am curious. You said BP is all from Mara's point of view. Yet Jacen dominates the book and is the one to be centered around. It is his moment which decides everything.

BP is about Mara, Mara, Mara, Jacen, Mara, Leia's torture, Mara, and Mara.

One of the reasons I abhor Mara is because of how her presence has not only altered the movie characters, turned them into incompetent dolts who worship at her shrine, but it's altered people's perspectives of the movie characters. For instance, I recall a Mara fan saying that when Anakin died, Leia was inspired to be strong by Mara's strength during her illness.

I beg your pardon? Leia was showing amazing strength and courage before Mara was even thought of. If anyone should be inspired by anyone, it's Mara by Leia. Yet the exact opposite is true in the books. Leia is in awe of Mara. Leia tells Mara she's braver. Leia thinks how incompetent she is compared to Mara, and thanks the Force that Mara has graced their lives (I've lost count of the times a character has done that in the books) and is Jaina's mentor because Mara can give Jaina so much more than Leia can.

What has Mara done to be worthy of such unquestioning adoration? I can't think of anything that other characters haven't done, and have done much more impressive stuff besides.

 

You mean the connection which Luke uses to interpret what exactly his sister is trying to do on the planet of Duro during BP? Where he interprets her thoughts rather easily and Mara is surpised at how much he got?

Yes exactly like that...except it's few and far between in NJO. I do appreciate it when it is highlighted but there definitely is a decline in Luke and Leia's Force connection. It should happen more often...

btw...like the new icon Shelley...it's kewl.

 

He chose Mara over his sister, just like always.

He was debating on going or not and the force told him it was not Leia's time. Sounds to me like he chose the force.

BP is about Mara, Mara, Mara, Jacen, Mara, Leia's torture, Mara, and Mara.

What were all the other words then? the ones about Jacen's dream, about his rescue of Leia, about his choices and thoughts, about his worry for his sister?

One of the reasons I abhor Mara is because of how her presence has not only altered the movie characters, turned them into incompetent dolts who worship at her shrine, but it's altered people's perspectives of the movie characters. For instance, I recall a Mara fan saying that when Anakin died, Leia was inspired to be strong by Mara's strength during her illness.

How do you know this was not the opinion based on all the person knew? Not everyone who reads Star Wars reads it for the big three.

OWLC

 

I recently finished Reunion and it was great. There was a line that stated:

Leia nodded. "May the force be with you Luke."
The hologram flickered and died entirely.
"And you, sister," he mumbled to where Leia's image had been a moment earlier.

Throughout the whole NJO, that's the most affection I've ever seen them show towards one another.

 

As I was reading this I started to laugh. You know why? Because Mara Jade-Skywalker is a nonexistent noun! She cannot do anything t control the outcome of the books. Mara is just name in a book! She does not control the way authors write other characters, and that is certainly the way most of the arguments are starting to sound.

Leia and Han were always together on missions, doing this, doing that. Luke just tries to stay out of their way?the third wheel. I?m just surprised he didn?t end up a hermit like Obi-wan. For most of the books and two of the , the only thing Luke has had for company is Artoo. Luke has always been different, set apart. He has something in common with Mara.

Leia and Luke?s relationship has been ruined by NJO, not because of Mara.

Unless you want Luke to be single for the rest of his life Mara is his best choice. Gaeriel is , though I didn?t mind her, but she and Luke never would have a very good relationship. Callista left because she loved the Force more than she loved him which just dissolve all respect I might have been able to keep for her.

 

If thier relationship is not ruined because of Mara, what is it then?

 

It's Mara and her needs. That's all. Hopefully in the Post-NJO books we'll see more brother and sister action.

Actually this disscusion has made me realize alot. Such as why Luke seems so powerless in NJO. Back in the days in the New Republic era, when Luke and Leia had that tight brother and sister relationship, Luke seemed as the powerful Jedi Master type. Now that he's married to Mara in the NJO, he seems wimpy and always thinking about Mara, Mara, Mara. If I hear that "Mara, my love" line one more time, I'm gonna barf.

 

You're just jealous.

j/k

Anyway, Mara is a main character (people should learn to deal with it ) in the EU and married to Luke who loves her and I suspect all of you who have had a long term relationship know how deep the connection is in that kind of relationship and that often you tend to give priotity to it over other relationships, even brotherly ones.

A lot of things are makign Luke and Leia apart, but I have to say that the least of them must be his relationship with Mara. Without the war going on, they'd spend a lot more time together.

My granmother was in Spain during the Civil War and she and her brother suffered the same during that time. They were apart and never knew when they could spend time together.


As a conclusion: yes I do miss the Luke/Leia relationship, as I do a lot of other ones. The NJO seems to neglect the older characters (both OT and EU) and not to develop characters and relationship even half of what they should. That's why I've stopped reading. I don't like all-action no good characters/relationships stories.

 

KILLING LEIA OR HAN WOULD NOT HAVE EMOTIONAL IMPACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I would stop reading all SW books if they killed either of them off! How is that for impact?????


Oh yeah...... If they killed Mara off I would have LOTS of emotions! JOY... HAPPY... LAUGHTER... GOOD WILL TO SW AUTHORS.... Yep... Lots of emotions there!

 

Anyway, Mara is a main character (people should learn to deal with it ) in the EU and married to Luke who loves her and I suspect all of you who have had a long term relationship know how deep the connection is in that kind of relationship and that often you tend to give priotity to it over other relationships, even brotherly ones.

Again, why the heck was Leia able to have a tight, close relationship with her brother after she became involved in a long-term relationship with Han, but Luke couldn't manage it? Doesn't that make Leia a bigger, more loving person than Luke? Or is it like in the case of one of my brothers, where his wife controls him, and she determined that he shouldn't be so involved with the rest of his family, while everyone else remained close to our siblings after marriage. This brother is like Luke, and has become isolated from the rest of us, because he has a dominating, controlling, self-absorbed, self-centered wife, who can't stand not being the sole recipient of my brother's affection.

And I have a marriage that is over 20 years old, and I'm still very close to my family, except for the brother whose wife put a wedge between him and us.

 

Again, why the heck was Leia able to have a tight, close relationship with her brother after she became involved in a long-term relationship with Han, but Luke couldn't manage it?

IIRC, the Vong war started long after Leia and Han were together and what happened in books previous to the NJO wasn't nearly as intense (war-wise) as it is now. It's a shame SW books have gotten like this.

 

Darkwoman...
"IIRC, the Vong war started long after Leia and Han were together and what happened in books previous to the NJO wasn't nearly as intense (war-wise) as it is now."

The Vong war also started long after Luke and Mara were together. And I'd hardly call what happened to Han (and Han/Leia) in the Black Fleet Crisis to be "not nearly as intense (war-wise) as it is now."

In fact, The Black Fleet Crisis was far more intense for Han/Leia. You had Han get captured, beaten and tortured to an inch of his life, and Leia was the very person who was in charge of making the decision to go to war over it or not. Along with the fact that she got to see an extremely graphic holo of Han being beaten thanks to what were essentially Leia's decisions. Luke hasn't had to witness such things in such graphic detail with respect to anyone else. I'd grant that Mara's sickness would be about the only example directly comparable to what Han/Leia had to endure in the BFC.

And of course, that's not even getting into the various annual Imperial kidnappings of Leia and/or Han/Leia's kids in the bantam novels which were going on for some 20 years straight prior to NJO.

 

Does anyone besides me wonder why Leia pretty much ignored Han during The Corellian Trilogy when he was held captive and tortured almost to death (except for Leia thinking.."poor Han, I sure wish I could help him..") AND THEN in the VERY NEXT book, when Luke is kidnapped by a crazy Dark Jedi, Leia resigns her presidency to run off and help Luke? Yet, she did not even try to send a rescue team after Han when he was in trouble? Chewie was the one who saved Han, if I recall, and Leia did not even know Chewie was going after Han. And in the annoying NJO books, Han was obviously deeply depressed. Did Leia help him? Nope. She runs off and says to Wedge..."keep an eye on my stupid husband.." (paraphrasing here..lol) Do you think she would have treated a depressed Luke the same way? I doubt it. In one book she basically says, "if he gets over it fine, if not, oh well. He is a big boy, he can help himself." When people are clinically depressed they cannot help themselves. Maybe Mara needs to push Leia away from Luke and make her need her husband a bit more.

 

Maybe Mara needs to push Leia away from Luke and make her need her husband a bit more.


Maybe Leia and the rest of the Solo and Skywalker clan needs to push Mara away from Luke so he can finally start caring and worrying for his real family besides his self-asorbed and self-centered wife, and maybe he can start living in the real world again instead of Mara-Land.


Blood is thicka than water.

 

Amen!

 

I am not a Mara fan myself. I always thought Han and Luke were like brothers and Luke and Leia a lot closer until SHE showed up. Luke was a lot more likeable before he got married. Everyone worries about Kyp or Jaina having "dark" feelings... what about Mara? She is always having "dark" feelings! Read the latest NJO book. Luke keeps telling her to calm down throughout the entire book. What kind of example is she setting?

 

Blood is thicka than water.

Exactly. Tell it like it is. No matter how much you love your wife, girlfriend, or any friend, your own flesh and blood will always be there for you and you should always be there for them. I have a girlfriend who I care for deeply, but if any of my brother and sisters need me, I'm always there for them no matter what. They're the people you grew up with and learn to trust more than anyone else in the world.

I know Luke and Leia havn't been thier for each other all thier lives, but they've made up for that for the past 25 years. I also know Luke cares deeply for his wife and child, and who could blame him? But it seems the authors have completely thrown away what Luke and Leia used to share, no matter who comes in and out of thier lives. I used to love to see the both of them fighting along side eachother through thick and thin. The authors could've found some way to keep that alive with Mara and Ben now in the picture. Hopefully one day the authors will see this error in which they've made, by which they broke off a twin bond that was strong so before, but now is nothing but a simple flicker that slowly dies out in each NJO book.

 

Imagine if your extremely close nephew just died through sudden and tragic circumstances and your wife told you to blow it off?

Luke seriously needs a divorce. He needs a wife that's a positive influence on his life. He deserves that much.

 

I couldn't beleive it either when she actually ordered Luke not to mourn over his own nephew's death, but instead think about what would happen to Ben. There's just no excuse for that kind of ego-centric behavior. How self-asorbed could she get?




Castilla, where are you?