Is Naboo really more *familiar* than we think??

Why is Yoda there? Maybe its his home planet?? eh? eh?

I mean, he's the same color green as the 'water'..

 

Top 10 things that GL will change for the "Star Wars Saga: Extra Special Ultimate Edtition" in 2006, besides having Naboo become Dagobah...

10. Obi-Wan has a clone named Obi-Two that is killed after Anakin is defeated, that's why the bad guys will think he's dead!
9. Han Solo will be revealed as the illegitimate son of Jango, thus having the Fett/Solo "feud" a commentary on sibling rivalry.
8. The water planet from AOTC becomes Bespin after a planetary shift causes it to veer closer to the sun, thus turning the "water" into Tibanna gas. (It's a commentary on "Global warming".)
7. Yaddle is really Yoda after a sex-change operation to conceal the fact that the real Yoda was killed in the "final stand" with Obi-Two.
6. The Gungans evolved into Wookiees.
5. Kitster is the father of Lando Calrissian.
4. A lost tribe of wookiees "de-evolved" into Ewoks.
3. C-3PO wasn't built by Anakin, he bought the parts and the instructions from a "used droid-kit" ad in the back of a comic-book.
2. The Sea-Monkees Anakin bought, also evolved into the Mon Calamari. (They were in his pack when he left Tatooine and let them go on during a Jedi mission.
)
and the number one change GL will make....

1. Shmi will be revealed as the clone of Palpatine's mother, but was artificially inseminated by him before she was released, thus, making Palpatine Anakin's father and brother!
(or is that Sidious's mother? Hmmm...)

Hey, if you can believe in the Death Star blowing up Alderaan, that Luke and Leia were twins, and Ewoks can defeat the Imperial army, then these shouldn't be too hard to swallow!

 

Punisher I had the same theories myself.

 

Okay, Punisher. A little funny. It's obvious you hate this speculation.

Mind you I'm not saying it's likely. I'm saying I think it would be cool. But this very topic is the one I'm always p***ing off people the most with. Those who don't like it can't seem to be able to stay away from mocking it. I really hope I'll say "told you so" one fine day. Not that any of you'll ever admit anything.

 

Don' worry, Adali-Kiri. I agree with you.

 

I find this topic very interesting. Here is what I think:

First off, let me give you my theory on how the Twins are separated.
They are born (where doesn't matter) with only Yoda and Padme knowing about the both of them. Obi Wan doesn't know about Leia, because if he did his line in ESB back would make no sense:

Obi Wan: "That boy was our last hope."
Yoda: "No, there is another."

Now if Obi Wan knew about Leia, why make that statement? He did because he didn't know until Yoda tells him.

Padme takes Leia to Alderaan to live with the Organa family. What happens to Padme we will find out one day.

Yoda takes Luke to Dagobah. Yoda decides that it is not safe for Luke to be there with him so he sends for Obi Wan who then takes him to the Lars on Tatooine. I feel that the darkside cave is created by a confrontation that Yoda has with one of the "Jedi exterminators" and is a result of that "Jedi exterminator's" death. Leaving an evil prescence there in the cave.

From this, we can give Leia memories of her mother and Luke memories of Dagobah.

Now onto the Dagobah=Naboo topic.

It is something that GL would do. GL loves giving plot twists and surprises. Just because he ok'd a map stating that Naboo and Dagobah are separate planets doesn't mean they won't end up being the same. GL has contradicted some EU stuff already. I'll use and example from another thread. GL and staff have said that Sidious and Palpatine are the same, yet he allowed a comic to say that Palpatine is a clone (Dark Empire). An EU source being contradicted by canon. It has already happened, why do you think it won't happen again? Misinformation is designed to do what we are all doing: guessing. If he had made a map and not put Naboo on it, then we would say that are both the same. But having both on a map, in an non-canon source mind you, allows GL to change it later if he chooses and to point us in the direction they want us to look so when they do spring the surprise, we will be surprised.

As far as the similarities of the two planets.

Just because Naboo has a water core doesn't mean that Dagobah does too. We have swamps in the USA and South America is a vast jungle, but our planet is not a water core. We have not seen all of Dagobah have we? From where Luke entered was he able to scan the entire planet to see that there wasn't a desert on the far side of the planet? Do we know that Naboo has no deserts? No we don't. We didn't see any oceans on either planet because we only saw a SMALL part of each. If Luke were to have landed in Brazil, would we conclude that Earth could be Naboo or Dagobah as well? Look at the planet as a whole. Not just what we see. Just because there are similarities in the animals and vegetation on the two planets doesn't conclude that they are the same. Where did the horses in North America come from, not North America. So animals could have been taken from one planet to another. Same with vegetation. There is no direct evidence from the movies concluding that Naboo=Dagobah or Naboo is not Dagobah. That is what makes this theory so intriguing. We will have to wait and see if GL has another surprise for us.

However, if you look at the movies from start to finish, somewhere you would have to show how Naboo and Dagobah are indeed the same planet (or it wouldn't be worth doing) so when Luke arrives there in ESB and says "This looks familiar" you will get the connection of the two. Maybe like someone said GL will add some Gungan artifacts strewn throughout Dagobah and we see them in the background during his training. Who knows?

I think it is a good theory, nothing I have said disproved or proved it. It is one of those "point of view' things. It could happen.....if I were a betting man, I would have to say expect the unexpected.

 

They aren't the same planet, no one renames a planet.

 

So, do you think Jupiter has always been known as Jupiter to everyone?

I agree with D_D_J that there is no proof for or against this speculation. Which is why it IS speculation. There are only indications, and most of those are read on the basis of our own points of view - whether you're for it or against it.

As for us seeing only small parts of the planet - that's true, BUT Lucas is usually designing his planets to be of only one environment; sand, forrest, snow, water, rock. I think Naboo is the most diverse planet we've seen so far. The reason for making them simple is clear; if they all had multiple environments they wouldn't contrast each other. It needs to be precise and clear - a snow planet, a desert planet, etc. It creates better drama that way.

Funnily Naboo is a lot like what I always imagined Alderaan to be like - beautiful, serene, with great architecture, huge waterfalls, glorious highlands and the lot. It's even the very "planetification" of the peaceful and defenseless world Leia describes Alderaan as in ANH. Was it not for the mention of Alderaan in TPM, I would be very confused about this.

I'm not campaigning for anything, but I do like to speculate. It's just that this speculation seems to annoy so many folks. Well, we'll all find out in about 3 years. Omigod! Is it only 3 years till Episode III? It was only yesterday that I counted 6 years, wasn't it? Hey! Episode II is out in less than 2 months!!! [face_shocked]

 

But no one lives on jupitor.

 

I'm not sure if someone mentioned this already but....

I've been thinking about how some theories suggest that the Clone War is responsible for destroying Naboo and then I thought of a real life parrellel (sp?):

World War 1 : The battlefields took place in once beuatiful fields and countrysides (like Naboo) but the fighting was so intense that they actually changed the landscape and turned it into a blasted, muddy no-man's land. I have seen some before and after shots of WW1 and now thinking of that kinda makes the idea of Naboo being destroyed because of intense fighting and turning into Dagobah almost plausible.

What if a major Clone War battle takes place on Naboo and the Naboo defenders lose and the planet is occupied and then RENAMED by the victors to Dagobah?

Just a thought....

 

HAW HAW HAW!

I can just bet that GL is coming here (Okay, hot him, one of his henchmen) and taking notes so that he can incorporate this into Ep.3!
I can hear the *gushers* now, "Ohhh, it WORKS on SO MANY levels!"

The reason people get sick of this topic, I think, personally I'm finding it amusing, is because it's a waste of time to make EVERYTHING in the PT LINK TO THE OT!
LEAVE SOMETHING UNIQUE TO BOTH SERIES!

I give you guys points for creativity, but let's go for some originality. This rumor has been around since TPM and I bet you guys will be wishing for it to be true AFTER Ep.3!
Hence, my Top Ten list....

 

Good theory thenink. And kudos to Adali and anyone else who is keeping an open mind on this discussion. Punisher stop laughing at us.

I also believe that IF this planetary metamorphosis was going to occur, is would take a really catastrophic accident or event (like the Clone War itself). I've found some more interesting tidbits that support this theory -- not saying it will happen, of course, but just thoughts:

(1)Some believe the Death Star was built on an existing planet. Call it a wild idea, but it sounds interesting. The Death Star needed a planet with a hollow core as its "skeleton" and they simply built around it. Sounds impossible, but then the Empire has built some amazing things, so who knows. Maybe the initial Death Star plan failed, and The Empire punctured massive holes and destroyed the ecosystem of Naboo. (It would fit their destructive, pillaging nature). They abandon this failed project and try it on another planet/moon.

(2)According to the *OFFICIAL* Star Wars Databank on Dagobah, the planet is described:

A distant, mist-shrouded swamp planet, Dagobah does not appear in any modern starcharts. It is a forgotten world, and it was the home of the last remaining Jedi Master and Council member from the waning days of the Republic.

Hmmm, a "forgotten world"? It doesn't "appear on any modern starcharts?" I think even detractors of this theory will agree there is something more to Dagobah then we know. And perhaps more will be explained in Episode II or III. Dagobah is furthered described as a mystical, haunted planet where past attempts of colonization were abandoned. Is there something creepy about it? Is it a ghost planet, a "tomb", etc.....? The plant life is described as strange on Dagobah (according to the databank)....maybe the twisting trees grow extra fast on this planet after a disaster on Naboo.

(3)To the detractors in this thread, what's so far-fetched with a name change anyways? Naboo was called Naboo because the people who lived there named it Naboo. Obviously, if the citizens of Naboo were wiped out somehow, than the planet would may have been ascribed another name by others. No one said Dagobah was the official name, like Pluto or Venus. If Dagobah isn't on official charts than maybe it's a haunted planet given the nickname of "Dagobah."

Here on Earth, we've had tons of islands, countries, cities, regions, old towns, streets, etc --- all have had name changes. Changes are required to reflect changes in the environment and the people. Simple towns long ago used to have names based on alphabetical order or were named after founding citizens and pioneers. After the towns grew into much larger cities, a name change was required to reflect the growth and the changing times.

(4)How come Naboo is never shown in ROTJ? (not to mention the OT itself) At the celebratory scene at the end of ROTJ, we see Tatooine, Coruscant, and Bespin....so where's Naboo, a planet which is a major setting in the PT. I don't know if Lucas neglected it, but if he went through the trouble of including Coruscant, it sort of makes you wonder about Naboo's omission.


To the jury, I rest my case.

 

Dear Punisher; I don't think you really mind "wasting time", seeing as you're actually spending your time participating in a discussion you think is dumb and pointless. A piece of advice - stay away from threads you don't like. It'll make you happier, and you'll be able to spend your time and energy on things that deserve your attention.

JohnWilliams00;

I think you make some very interesting points there. And I agree very much that the name having to be changed is a non-issue. Things like borders and names of countries change all the time. Look at Eastern Europe these days - not exactly looking or sounding like it did 15 years ago, is it? And the United States of America hasn't had that name for very much of its history. It all depends on who lives there and who's in power.

So let's just put aside the name issue, as it's not a good argument against the theory. Neither is the often repeated map-issue, which I also think is a non-starter as Lucas wouldn't take either Naboo or Dagobah off a map and give away the twist years in advance, IF he had this plan.

JohnWilliams00 points out a few interesting bits of official info on Dagobah, and he also points out the very suspicious omission of Naboo from the OT. Besides Tatooine and Coruscant it looks set to be the most heavily featured planet of the saga. And one thing is for sure; Dagobah's history will have to be expained. A lot of mysterious things are alluded to in the OT and this planet is completely shrouded in a veil of darkness, but at the same time it seems to be very relevant to the story. I think the issues about Dagobah's past will have to be adressed at some point in the PT, and my personal opinion is that this has already happened - because Naboo will be destroyed and fled in the Clone Wars, and then forgotten and renamed Dagobah for some reason yet to be revealed.

It would make a lot of dramatic sense, actually. Naboo has firmly been established as a prosperous and peaceful world of immense beauty and sophistication, besides being the home of Luke and Leia's mother and the location for the romance between her and Anakin. Lucas will surely want to show how horribly the Clone Wars impact the stability and peace of the Republic, and I don't think this will just be about politics but about destruction and annihilation (did I misspell that..?). It would seem pointless indeed to have it all come apart and not touch Naboo - the very symbol of the peace and serenity of the Old Republic. This role could also befall Alderaan, which is detroyed in ANH. But this planet will appear in only ONE film at the most (maybe not even that), thus it's unsuited for bearing the symbolic power that Naboo is set up for.

So what will happen to Naboo is one question.

And what is the history of Dagobah is another.

Both of these seem to be very interesting and very crucial to the Star Wars story, and I think it's likely that Lucas will adress both these questions. My humble theory is that these two basic questions can actually answer each other.

If someone who disagrees would care to present a different solution, I'd be happy to read it!
But I'd like it to be something more than just dissing my theory because one "doesn't like it".

 

*KISS* *KISS*
I love you too, sweetheart.
(unless you're a guy pretending to be a female, then all I can do is take THAT BACK!)
Or you're a female pretending to be a guy, then the {face-love] still applies. But if you're all guy, then all I can say is... thanks for the attention!


Well, since it has been presented that Alderran is a peaceful planet, but it was involved in the Clone Wars.
EU explains that the planet adopted pacifism after the wars (obviously this can change), I think it may happen because of the destruction of Naboo.

This doesn't solve the issue of Dagobah=Naboo, but it would be ironic that Naboo was pacifistic, went to war and was completely destroyed, this causes Alderaan to go pacifistic, but it too is destroyed.

That's the kind of irony I could see GL going for.

 

About the renaming

Say a huge genocide takes place on Naboo, through a war and a whole lot of people and Jedi die. Maybe, this is where the Jedi have their last stand.

Would you really want to remember the planet by it's old name? Too creepy. Best to start new

 

Not true. Different Planets.

 

A few problems with this "theory." (My word, I thought this dead horse had been kicked enough )

1. Why would the system be renamed? The planet is on the same freakin' orbit.

2. If Naboo suddenly turned into Dagobah, you can be sure plenty of people would remember the cataclysm that caused an entire planet to morph into a giant swamp. No one mentions that in the OT.

3. If the Empire was responsible for the change, why did they need a Death Star later on, if they already had some kind of technology that could destroy a planet's entire echosystem?

4. Why would Yoda hide in the Emperor's home planet?

5. It's just such an implausible theory!

The only way I could somehow stomach such a plot twist would be if the planet was knocked out of its orbit, thus SOMEWHAT accounting for the radical echological change, as well as the system renaming. But that sounds like something out of Star Trek, not Star Wars. Plus, there isn't a good reason to introduce such a plot point.

 

You'll have to say more than that Intreped_Hero. People who've said a lot more have been countered.

Jorus_Kando:
1. Read a few posts back.
2. No one mentions Naboo. No one mentions Endor before ROTJ. Just because no one mentioned it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Also, who's to say George didn't think this up after the OT?
3. Who said it was a single act? Maybe it was a prolonged war?
4. This one I've thought of before. Why would they hide Luke on his father's home planet? Because those are the only places they won't look. It's too painful or they hate it too much.
5. I'm betting everyone would've been saying the same thing if I said Vader was Luke's father in 1978.

 

1. Read a few posts back.
2. No one mentions Naboo. No one mentions Endor before ROTJ. Just because no one mentioned it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Also, who's to say George didn't think this up after the OT?
3. Who said it was a single act? Maybe it was a prolonged war?
4. This one I've thought of before. Why would they hide Luke on his father's home planet? Because those are the only places they won't look. It's too painful or they hate it too much.
5. I'm betting everyone would've been saying the same thing if I said Vader was Luke's father in 1978.

Good answers. However, the big question remains: Why would George introduce a time-consuming, contrived plot point in a trilogy that has a tightly designed structure? The Clone Wars, Anakin's descent into the Dark Side, the decimation of the Jedi Order all will be in full swing in Episode III, why devote time to morphing one planet into another, as well as explaining its name change?

Adding plot twists for $#!7$ and giggles isn't good storytelling. Changing Naboo into Dagobah serves no purpose to the overall story.

Mr. Horse begs for the beatings to stop

 

Jorus_Kando;

I'm afraid you're the one who's beating a dead horse here. Folks like you often say that this has been done to death before, which should mean that you would be able to present some overwhelmingly good arguments. But you don't. Your last 2 posts bring nothing new to the discussion, they just repeat points that have been countered numerous times. As it always happens, no one really tries to wrestle with my last post. Go read that again, and provide an alternative. Why can't the questions about Naboo's ultimate fate and Dagobah's shadowy history answer each other?

My last post points out that this would make sense both dramatically and logically. Counter if you can!

Punisher;
I'm not pretending to be anything. My profile says 'male', and I am. And you still love to waste time, I see. Cheers!

 

"So what will happen to Naboo is one question."

Why does anything have to happen to Naboo? Just because it is not mentioned in the OT doesn't mean anything has happened to it. Look at Coruscant and the other planets from AOTC. They are not mentioned in the OT either, does that mean something happened to them? Maybe when the difinitive DVD set comes out there will be a mention of Naboo in the OT, we don't know. But as far as the OT goes and its events, there is no need for Naboo to be mentioned at all.

"And what is the history of Dagobah is another."

Yes, I would like to know more about this planet. I wanna know about the cave and its origins. Maybe Yoda goes there because of the cave knowing it will negate his presence in the Force. For all we know, Dagobah could be Yoda's homeworld. GL has kept his orgins a secret as well. But you are right, Dagobah and its importance has to be addressed in EPIII.

These two planets could very well be the same, however, I don't feel that they are and I have yet to see any proof to convince me otherwise.

Besides, even after EPIII comes out, we will not have the "complete" saga until after the DVDs come out. So things that we always wondered about concerning the OT and why this or that wasn't mentioned or omitted may in fact get added to complete the saga.

 

I think the bottom line is we should all keep an open mind on this subject.

Personally, I don't think there is any connection between Dagobah and Naboo, but who knows? I have no proof of this and neither does anybody else (save for GL himself) nor does anybody have any proof to the contrary.

However, I will say that if this subject is addressed in the next films, I think we will have to wait until EP3 to find out.



Hey.....A thought just occured to me!!! This might have been brought up in a former post, but, maybe that's why Padme takes Leia to Alderaan: 'cuz Naboo gets the holy beejezus kicked out of it and becomes Dagobah!!! THE DEBATE RAGES ON!!!!!

 

Jorus_Kando;

I'm afraid you're the one who's beating a dead horse here.

Actually, I'm standing between you and the poor carcass

Folks like you often say that this has been done to death before, which should mean that you would be able to present some overwhelmingly good arguments. But you don't. Your last 2 posts bring nothing new to the discussion, they just repeat points that have been countered numerous times.

Perhaps those points are repeated so often because they are logical, plausible reasons why Dagobah and Naboo are not the same planet.

- It's a contrivance.

- It's time consuming.

- It deviates from the main story arc.

- It's a gratuitous plot twist.

In short, it'd accomplish nothing except please a few fanboys. You guys should team up with the Aurra Sing fans.

As it always happens, no one really tries to wrestle with my last post. Go read that again, and provide an alternative. Why can't the questions about Naboo's ultimate fate and Dagobah's shadowy history answer each other?

My last post points out that this would make sense both dramatically and logically. Counter if you can!


ok, let's have a look at yourt previous post:

I think you make some very interesting points there. And I agree very much that the name having to be changed is a non-issue. Things like borders and names of countries change all the time. Look at Eastern Europe these days - not exactly looking or sounding like it did 15 years ago, is it? And the United States of America hasn't had that name for very much of its history. It all depends on who lives there and who's in power.

It still needs to be addressed. Which means devoting screen time to it. Which means taking time away from the main story arc.

So let's just put aside the name issue, as it's not a good argument against the theory. Neither is the often repeated map-issue, which I also think is a non-starter as Lucas wouldn't take either Naboo or Dagobah off a map and give away the twist years in advance, IF he had this plan.

How convenient So you determine what's an actual argument and what isn't? If Lucas did plan on introducing such a capriscious plot point, he could have concealed it without knowingly placing erroneous information in materials his fans would spend money on. The maps are correct.

JohnWilliams00 points out a few interesting bits of official info on Dagobah, and he also points out the very suspicious omission of Naboo from the OT.

Naboo is not mentioned in the OT because Lucas had not come up with it! My God, man. Do you truly think he had the entire PT written back in the 80s? He had a basic framework, which he developed in the 1990s. Get over it.

There's no mention of Jar Jar in the OT!! That means he turned into Salacious Crumb!!

See how ridiculous that "logic" is?

Besides Tatooine and Coruscant it looks set to be the most heavily featured planet of the saga. And one thing is for sure; Dagobah's history will have to be expained. A lot of mysterious things are alluded to in the OT and this planet is completely shrouded in a veil of darkness, but at the same time it seems to be very relevant to the story. I think the issues about Dagobah's past will have to be adressed at some point in the PT, and my personal opinion is that this has already happened - because Naboo will be destroyed and fled in the Clone Wars, and then forgotten and renamed Dagobah for some reason yet to be revealed.

"Forgotten and renamed"??? Who would rename a forgotten planet? If it's been forhgotten, it's vanished from memory, yes? How can you bring attention to something and have it still be "forgotten"?

Dagobah has a history, but it's not Naboo's.

It would make a lot of dramatic sense, actually.

Actually, it wouldn't. Arbitrary plot twists are not good storytelling.

Naboo has firmly been established as a prosperous and peaceful world of immense beauty and sophistication, besides being the home of Luke and Leia's mother and the location for the r

 

Not the same planet.

I think that's all I need to say.

 

Dear Jorus_Kando;

I'll do my best to split your actual arguments from your mean personal attacks and mocking.

You claim the following points are "logical, plausible reasons why Dagobah and Naboo are not the same planet"---
"It's a contrivance" - No more than Anakin building 3PO, Amidala practically owning R2 and several other key elements that have recently been introduced. I've no doubt that you utterly hate these things as well, but you'd do well to remember that your opinions are opinions and not facts, just as my theory is my theory and not fact.
"It's time consuming" - Yes, it is. But if it's a major battle and the place of major events in the Clone Wars it will be fully justified its screentime. This depends on things you know nothing about.
"It deviates from the main story arc" - Again, you have no way of knowing this.
"It's a gratuitous plot twist" - In your opinion. I think it would be great.

"In short, it'd accomplish nothing except please a few fanboys. You guys should team up with the Aurra Sing fans."
I'll let this one speak for itself and asure you that I'll never say such crap to you, no matter how much we disagree on something.

"So you determine what's an actual argument and what isn't"
No, I don't. I argue my case, which is what you do in debates. The map I'm refering to is EU, and thus not a very solid source for what will and won't happen in the movies. What I do is point this out. If you disagree you should argue against me, not trying to make me look like I discard arguments that don't suit me. I can take this further by pointing to stuff like Boba Fett's EU history - which will be utterly mauled by Episodes II and III. An example of EU not being a good argument for what'll happen in the movies.
"The maps are correct"
You have no way of knowing that yet.

"My God, man. Do you truly think he had the entire PT written back in the 80s? ... Get over it."
Take it easy. I never claimed he had. I'm saying that Naboo is turning out to be the most heavily featured planet in the entire saga, and thus its absence from the OT brings up a few questions. That's my point, and anyway you agree with me:
"I absolutely agree:Naboo will be devastated during the Clone Wars."
Thank you.

"There's no mention of Jar Jar in the OT!! That means he turned into Salacious Crumb! See how ridiculous that "logic" is?"
Yeah, that IS ridiculous, but it is YOU who brings it up. That is nothing like what we're discussing here. And anyway, Jar Jar might very well exit the saga somehow - so the question of what happens to him is NOT ridiculous. It's stuff that people wonder about.

"Explain how destruction = echological metamorphosis. What kind of ridiculous weapon would accomplish that?"
Hmmm, maybe like the H-bomb? I'm intrigued by how you label what you don't comprehend "ridiculous".

"I'd love to hear Dagobah's history. But I'm 100% sure it's not Naboo's."
I'm happy for you. But that is not an argument.

"It's my humble opinion that thou hath fallen off thine rocker."
It's good to know that I'm arguing with educated individuals...