Saga Is now the time to do a full FX replacement on I-VI?

Is it not a fact that the movies that had a huge impact on culture were the originals? And is it not a fact that Lucasfilm doesn't sell these versions anymore? If the answers to both of these are "yes", then I think that's a huge shame. We're all here on this forum because of a very specific set of historically significant movies. But now, they're not even sold by Lucasfilm anymore; and the versions that were sold at one point were 13-years outdated at the time of their release.

Regarding Lucas, I have no ill will towards the guy. I don't agree with his decision to not make the originals available, but he can (& does) do whatever he wants. That being said, I don't particularly care for whatever he currently decides his vision is. I care, first & foremost, about Star Wars as movies. Because the way I see it, movies like the OT take on a life of their own once they're released, and Lucas' opinion on the matter is secondary to the movies themselves. I see the movies as a culmination of Lucas' vision, the works of many talented artists, studio meddling (like forcing him to shift from a soft focus lens he had used on Tattooine to a sharper one for the Death Star sequences), technological limitations of the time, and hardships faced during production. And it was, not one, but all of these things that culminated in some of the most important movies of our time. These movies should therefore not be lost to time. But you know, I don't think they will be; even now, as we speak, there are forces at work trying to make sure that doesn't happen. Because remember, if you strike the OOT down, it shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.

 

No one has disputed this, but I guess you're incapable of putting the fatalism aside even for a second.

I notice that you couldn't even answer the question, whether or not you thought such a change would be tragic.

So if this is going to be your level of participation, I'm gonna call it off.

Not every piece of art is significant.

The disrespect for who is obvious, if you think about the impact the work has had on the world for even a second. I don't think it's arrogant or obnoxious to say that if the Mona Lisa were permanently defaced the world would consider it a tragedy. Such things have actually happened. Great works have been destroyed in the past, and people have mourned their loss.

Don't give me some impaired response about how it's not defacement or destruction. Think about it from a wider point of view.

By the way, "disrespect" may be factual, by its definition.

He doesn't show his original work the courtesy or respect to leave it alone. He has talked a great deal about how unsatisfied he was with it, and one can see that as him not seeing it in particularly high esteem, ie not respecting it much, not to the level it deserved. He has also spoken disrespectfully about Star Wars as a premise, how he didn't care for it as much as other stuff, how he didn't want to get bogged down with it, and how he didn't like that it became his legacy. One can see that as a lack of respect for Star Wars, as a lack of respect, or disrespect, for his original Star Wars trilogy.

 

But Lucas said it's ok so we have to agree!

Seriously though, I can accept arguments that the prequels are good (even great) or that the OT special editions are improvements and should continue to be released but I see absolutely no merit in the "pro-OT suppression" argument beyond technical legality. I don't care how much of a "master visionary" Lucas is, he's still just one cog in a collaborative medium and actively suppressing the work of countless other artists is never ok.

 

Yes.

 

I think it's time. I would also digitally replace some actors. Jessica Brown Findlay instead of Carrie Fisher. Val Kilmer in for Ford.

 

Looking back through this thread I've come to one conclusion. That Kev Snowmane is like this right now:



Sneaky devil lit a fuse!

 

I love that Lucas added an f__ing rock in front of R2 in A New Hope - but no matter how many "editions" go by, R5-D4 will always still be seen next to R2, even after he has rolled forward and blown up. I see it every time and it takes me out of the film.

I don't need Ewoks to blink or Jabba's door to be bigger. But for the love of God, just give me the media to that one shot and I'll fix it myself in After Effects for the inevitable 40th anniversary reissue!

 

Yes, but the thing is that people like darkspine, darklighter and myself we don't distinguish the OT as OOT and SE when it comes to our love of the films and why we're here. We're here because we love the films. Not one version over the other. We're not here, or at least I'm not, because of cultural significance and preservation. I'm here because I love a bunch of films that came out forty years ago and I still love them today. I don't put conditional love on them.

I never said that they should be suppressed. I've said time and again that it was Lucas's right to make the choices that he did. If he didn't have that right, then that would be a different argument. I've also said that I don't care what Disney and Lucasfilm want to do now. They have the rights to almost all the films and they can do with them as they see fit. They could put both versions out, or go with ezekiel's humorous post.

 

Yeah I get that. I don't mean to say that everyone is here for the purpose of appreciating the OOT & its significance. I know that some people here even prefer the SE. Rather, what I'm saying is that every single aspect of Star Wars branched out from those original films. Those films led to a large fanbase, then some of those fans created "theforce.net", and we are now posting on that very site. And it all spawns from the OOT. So while you may not be posting here because of "cultural significance and preservation", I think it's still safe to say that the OOT is the reason any of us are even here, either directly or indirectly; and the fact that Lucasfilm doesn't even sell it anymore is, IMO, a shame. It is a part of not only worldwide culture, but also this franchise's own history. So, in short, I'm not saying anyone has to love one version over another; I'm just saying that a proper restoration of this franchise's roots would be a great thing.

 

I only watch Empire Strikes Back the way I watched it when I was a kid. A Pan and Scan Beta recording of a free preview of the First Choice Movie Channel - complete with ads and with the first two minutes missing. And this is the version I will show my children as well. My nostalgia, my rules.

 

sigh

 

I am perfectly happy with my blu ray versions. They look fantastic, (although once I have the technology, a 4K or 3D version would be nice) and any changes/improvements that exist in those are great IMO. With ONE exception:

FIX the lightsaber effects once and for all!!! So that all of them look the same! I know the blu ray version did some improvement on some of them, but IMO that's the one thing I'd like to see. Here's hoping for a truly RED Darth Vader lightsaber, and the same shade of blue for Luke's lightsaber through ALL of the OT!! I wouldn't mind the PT lightsabers made to flicker more, and look a bit less animated. (IMO the TPM lightsaber effects were good-they could match it to that...)

Sadly, I don't think they will be doing anymore fixes/enhancements. That was a GL thing. So I think the lightsabers will forever remain how they are.

 

What really frustrates me about the decision to release the Special Editions at all is that it opened the door to every single thing in these movies, in one pair of eyes or another, being mistakes or things to be "fixed." This wouldn't even be a conversation had the Special Editions never been released. Everyone would either A) be satisfied with the films as they were, accepting them as both products of their time and pieces of a larger canon, and understanding that production order has great bearing on the complexity and sophistication of the effects of the older films relative to the newer ones, regardless of their placement within the series' internal chronology, or B) take issue with the older effects and... deal with it? I mean, that's what happens. All movies will eventually be dated in one way or another; that's true for all art, really, but since film is an art form achieved through constantly and rapidly advancing technology, we tend to notice it a bit more than with paintings, for instance, where a work becomes dated through changing styles rather than technological shifts.

The important thing to note is that a good work of art will be timeless despite being dated, as paradoxical as that sounds. The Wizard of Oz is in many ways a dated movie, but it is also essentially a timeless one. I feel the same holds true for the OT, especially and particularly the original film, which after stripping away the ensuing franchise that sprung forth from it, is a highly influential American film classic. It doesn't and shouldn't need its effects to be updated every few years. It wouldn't impress me to see the effects in the original film updated to match those in Rogue One; rather, it impresses me to see how the effects in the original film in 1977 paved the way for the effects in Rogue One in 2016.

 

Hello. I know this is off topic but where can I find terms we can & can't use on JCF? I looked in rules but found nothing.

 

I think this is what you're looking for

http://boards.theforce.net/threads/official-profanity-and-disallowed-words-list.27141357/

 

I guess you can say this is "technically" another "SE" post again.

Speaking of SE, I keep thinking of Square Enix....

 

This is an interesting thread. As one that probably has SW consuming far too much of my personal "alternate reality" than I should (especially for a 47 year old), I have to confess I don't notice a lot of mistakes/limitations throughout the saga. Maybe because I don't really see them as movies as much as simply a captured moment in time. Being introduced to SW as a small child (and seeing it even now through that same lens) likely has something to do with this.

All movies have some level of compromise, and I actually appreciate the suspension of disbelief required to move past these things to the point where you block them out entirely. That's when you know you're really engrossed in the story, eh? I personally think if you're distracted by something subtle along those lines, then something is likely missing for you with the movie as well, but it's easier to have an FX issue take the fall. Though, conversely, if you're accustomed to your organic piece of perfection (say, the original ANH), and then seeing the revised version with the "velocity ring" (or whatever they call it) emanating from the Death Star upon its destruction (in an odd single plane, no less) will have some (me) feeling a massive gut punch. With ANH especially (less so with every successive movie), I never felt gratuitousness; I only felt necessary components for the story. I guess I never bought the "This was my original vision" line, unfortunately. In short, don't mess with my memories.

I've become a bit of a broken record with this, but the engineering required with practical effects underscores this point to some extent, as well. The TESB walkers are one of the best examples of this. A huge, lumbering, camel of terror; absurd, eh? But yet, the damn things were REAL; yes, in small scale, and moving a mm or two at a time, but it was reality in small scale, as opposed to a graphical contrivance. Watching the femur and humerus "bones" pivot to get the legs clearance to swing, and knowing the precision required to sell this motion to the audience, gives me chills. And the fact that the stop-motion work truly added to the mechanical look on-screen, only adds to the magic. And don't get me started with the TFA X-Wings, and the leverage working against that upper wing with the laser cannon; that design doesn't happen with a proper respect of structural analysis and a prototype model built to "feel" how wrong it seems (sorry, kind of a tangential point regarding the "cheating" that's enabled by CGI).

So I guess, for me, there's a reason why everything is done the way it is; maybe it's time, maybe it's money, maybe it's both. But there was a reason it was done with its inherent limitations and imperfections (as opposed to scrapping a scene or writing in a major change), and that optical imperfection only enhances its spiritual beauty.

As always, IMHO.

 

If they decide to remake the SW saga, that's their call because let's be honest, what's really stopping them? Petition?

 

Keycube wrote

Though, conversely, if you're accustomed to your organic piece of perfection (say, the original ANH), and then seeing the revised version with the "velocity ring" (or whatever they call it) emanating from the Death Star upon its destruction (in an odd single plane, no less) will have some (me) feeling a massive gut punch.

...and that was already the second massive gut punch following Alderaan.

 

I would love a 40th anniversary boxset with the OOT, 2011 Blu-Ray version, and (to answer the OP), a new version in 3-D. Preceded by 3-D theatrical rereleases of the entire original six-film saga.

Because I feel sad that the only one I got to see in 3-D was TPM.

Don't care much about the OOT vs. SE debate. If the OOT was available, I'd buy it. Since it's not currently, I guess I won't.

As for what kind of effects I'd like in the new version, mostly I want to focus on the 3-D effects to make that really add depth. Do some more color correction and editing there to make everything smooth, adjust the SE CGI to make it look more realistic, figure out whether you want Han or Greedo to shoot first and then make it smooth and obvious what happens there instead of jarring, and make the space battles bigger, with more ships. Update the Aurebesh in ANH so that it says real things (unless that already got fixed on the Blu-Rays? My Aurebesh is not great), update the Death Star schematics to make them look more like what we see in the prequels, fix the lightsabers so that they look like the prequel lightsaber blades. In the prequels, touch up the CGI and the 3-D work that's already been done.

Also, add hand-rails to platforms.

 

I never liked the velocity rings. I thought the things should just explode "normally," if there is such a thing as exploding normally....

 

That ring is known as a "Praxis effect." We can blame Star Trek for it. Goddamn Star Trek.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praxis_effect