Is Padme and Anakin's relationship believable?

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by inkswamp, Oct 22, 2004.

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  1. Amon_Amarth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2005
    star 6
    A/P are both not-so-usual, maybe even extraorinary people, Sci-Fi heroes, so dialogue IS in the right place. This is just like in Ancient Greek or Shakespeare`s tragedies; if characters are tragic, speach is more complicated, more glorious which may seem like unnatural.

    Lucas said himself that he wanted to make a story close both to 20s, 30s-movies and old Shakespearean tragedies. Considering this, he made pretty good job with EpII dialogue.
  2. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    I feel that the primary problem with this love story is this.

    As many have said, Lucas was trying to harken back to more "classic" models of love like those from the early age of film, or from Shakespeare's play. However, these often used conventions like love at first sight. Lucas also follows this pattern in writing his dialogue.

    However, Lucas also belabours the relationship for several scenes, trying to show a sort of "realistic" development arc.

    The two goals are diametrically opposed to one another, it seems. On the one hand, the "love at first sight" type of conventions are entirely fantastic (as in, "composed of fantasy elements" not "good"), while the "relationship arc" is represents an attempt at realism. Thus, he spends so much time going back and forth that he gets nowhere.

    High-flown dialogue cancelled out by awkward delivery, etc. It just makes the whole thing look bad, because it simulatneously calls attention to the faults of both styles of handling romance stories.
  3. Ididitall4thewookie Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2004
    star 3
    while Padmé has been suppressing her emotions for years and years. And years wink

    But this goes back to one of my original points - what emotions did she have for years and years? It could only have been a sisterly thing for a few days ten years ago. This is where the timing is screwed up in a very creepy way. In order for AOTC love scenes to be digestable, they had to start from square one.

    Portman portrays this in a realistic way. She doesn't let Padmé be too emotional, because Padmé is somewhat stiff.

    But assuming she is "normal", what emotions is she trying to beat down?

    But what I was essentially trying to say, was that I thought showing some human frailty and quirkiness, and not being the woman on a pedestal Anakin idealizes her to be, was not out of character for Padme.The dialogue spouting from their lips might have sounded more natural, but the characters wouldn't have, and to their detriment, I think.

    How so? Right. Its not out of character for PADME, but it is out of depth for NATALIE PORTMAN. She simply didnt pull it off because she is not that type of actress.
  4. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    I'm talking about emotions in general, Ididit. It's obvious that she's been refraining from getting romantically involved with anyone because she's a politician. Furthermore, she never shows her true emotions willingly while she's working. She always keeps a cool face.
    That's why she's emotionally handicapped.



    Star Wars is a saga
    Watch and believe

    /LM
  5. openmind Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2003
    star 4
    LarsMuul, did you notice that in several instances Padme (Natalie the actress in this case), shows that whenever Anakin tries to get closer to her (emotionally) she (moves) away. But when Anakin seems to move away from her emotionally/physically, she comes (closer) to him.

    Just some cases for example only.

    1. Anakin: "you said it yourself...why not?" ? closer to her

    Padme: "it makes me feel comfortable" ? away from him

    2. Anakin: "sure you do, you just don't want to tell me"
    (here Anakin doesn't force it)- moves away from Padme.

    Padme: "Okay, I was twelve..."- comes closer to him.

    3. Anakin: "...listen to me" ? comes to her
    Padme": "No you listen!" ? away from him

    4. Anakin: (moves away) when Padme said she won't give in.

    Padme (looks at him as if she doesn't want him to move away she wants him to come back, while behind Anakin) - It's very clear there, see the Natalie's eyes (yes the actress).

    5. Anakin: "she's suffering..I have to help her" - hinting he has to go away.

    Padme: "I'll go with you" ? closer back to him.

    6. Anakin: "these are good people, you'll be safe" ? away from her.

    Padme: "Anakin" then hugs him ? closer to him.

    She's one emotional rollercoaster, but her affection has really increased, while she decides to call the shots ?listen, Im not interesting in getting into a war here?.

    While Anakin decides "Iv'e given up trying to argue with you". No wonder he is surprised that she says she loves him.

    But its clear, she finally decides to reveal her feelings, as they were almost killed and now sent for death.

    Meanwhile, I recall when they reach Naboo Padme reveals that she was glad that her service was over (probable scenario for settling down), but then again couldn?t refuse Queen Jamila?s request to serve.

    Therefore, here also she shows (IMO) that there is a conflict within herself, to fall in love and marry, but also thinks of doing service. One (desire) she has to give up, for the other (desire) to work.

    Eventually she decides that she will fall in love, because death could come anytime and no point in hiding it from Anakin.

    Lastly, why the love story works (to me) as an artistic view, is that when Shmi dies, she for obvious reasons couldn't and struggles (after so much effort) to say she loves Anakin before she dies (as a mother of course) and eventually cannot.

    But Padme who has been struggling with her emotions, covering it up with hardness for so long throughout AOTC, eventually says she loves Anakin and that with no effort at all.

    So, Anakin connection with his mother, takes a back seat, only to be connected with Padme. And this is just the beginning of the true conflict Anakin faces when he loses to his Vader persona.

    I think The Story works this way, while everything connects.

    What do you think?


  6. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    openmind, I tried to keep one during your post, but I'm still not convinced.

    The towards/away dynamic might be interesting if it were the way you presented. However, the reality is, these scenes had long gaps between them. For instance, one of your examples is in the apartment on Coruscant, while the second, complementary one doesn't occur until they're in hiding on Naboo. Whereas, if she had for instance, sent him out then called him back in within a second or two, all in the same scene, that might be more suggestive of the kind of indecision and internal conflict you are trying to suggest here.

    Given this huge spacial gap, the opposing movements cannot be seen as suggestive of indecision. Compounding this problem is the fact that in each case, there are perfectly legitimate reasons outside of the emotional torment you describe that would explain why one would make the motions she did. For instance, she could've leaned closer to Anakin as she began relating a story because people often move closer or try to engage you to a greater degree when they begin speaking to you. Not necessarily because she has some pent-up burning desire to be with him.

    So basically, no, I don't think that holds much water. And I don't think the love story works well, either.
  7. Moons_of_Iego_angel7 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2005
    star 2
    Yes, I think the dialogue could have been a lot better therefor we have "fanfiction" lol. George Lucas could have done a lot better. The only thing that bothered me was that he didn't let Nat/Padme` Hayden/Ani go to their full potential both as actors and the characters the portray.
    HOLLA! :p
  8. openmind Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2003
    star 4

    The towards/away dynamic might be interesting if it were the way you presented. However, the reality is, these scenes had long gaps between them. For instance, one of your examples is in the apartment on Coruscant, while the second,
    complementary one doesn't occur until they're in hiding on Naboo.


    I believe the freighter scene shows a glimpse again of the closer/away dynamic.

    Anakin ?or to be with the people that I love? ? closer to Padme

    Padme: ?are you allowed to love? I thought that was forbidden for a Jedi? ? away from Anakin- knowing Anakin a Jedi shouldn?t try to make a move. :D

    Anakin then talks about compassion ? which is not lust as such, or attraction to someone ? away from Padme

    Padme : ?You?ve changed so much? ? Closer to Anakin- remembering him as a kid in Tattoine. Its more fondness, that she has remembered him from the past and commenting on his wisdom now.

    Anakin: ?exactly the way I remember you in my dreams? ? Closer to Padme

    Padme: Doesn?t comment but look at the eyes, she realizes he?s a tad bit obsessed ? away from him.


    For instance, she could've leaned closer to Anakin as she began relating a story because people often move closer or try to engage you to a greater degree when they begin speaking to you. Not necessarily because she has some pent-up burning desire to be with him.

    Ah yes, but did you would notice that Padme playfully tries to test Anakin with the "cute, dark curly hair, dreamy eyes" expositioning- something to the effect of : "come on, don't tell me you wont be jealous would you?" look. She's pulling him in.

    And then he says "alright, I get the picture" a withdrawal.

    Look at Padme again, she has drawn him in and seemingly enjoyed that she was able to ruffle him a bit.



  9. SpellLeviticus Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2005
    star 1
    Is Padme and Anakin's relationship believable?

    NOT AT ALL!

    i am a teenager that completely fell in love with a female and i mean completely...and just by sight at first just like Anakin... around her i always acted like Anakin does around PaDME IN THE MOVie and what is on screen reflects so much what happened to me...

    i can see it clear as day..but maybe some of you older people...

    or some of you people who have never trully trully and i mean trully liked someone to the point of almost obsession
  10. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    I never thought about that, openmind. Clever observation!
    There's just one thing I don't agree with: The moment Anakin walks away from her in the fireplace scene. I've heard before that she supposedly looks like she doesn't want him to turn/give up and I have looked for it, but I can't see it.



    Six episodes, Two trilogies, One Saga
    /LM
  11. Selina_Moonfire Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2005
    star 1
    Maybe someone has said this before. But does anyone find it a bit weird that they're supposed to have had feelings since they met. They were kids. And it's been implied in a lot of things I've read that there was more than friend type affection between them even then.
  12. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    It's obvious in TPM that they have a special connection. It's kind of like love at first sight, but not really love, if you see what I mean.
    Look at the scene on the Royal cruiser right before they reach Coruscant. They both say that they care for eachother and Anakin even gives her a necklace so that she'll remember him. And this is just a few days after they first met!
    Definitely more than friendship.



    Star Wars is six, two and one
    /LM
  13. openmind Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2003
    star 4
    I've heard before that she supposedly looks like she doesn't want him to turn/give up and I have looked for it, but I can't see it.

    Oh its there LarsMuul! I see her eye movements and body posture, it really looks like she's thinking "wait! are you giving in? fight for me!"

    From the first time Ive seen AOTC, its always been there like that. :D]

  14. PrinceEspaaValorum Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2005
    star 4
  15. gezvader28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2003
    star 4
    spell leviticus:
    Is Padme and Anakin's relationship believable?

    NOT AT ALL!


    okay, but you then go on to say how much it mirored your own experience. So do you find it believable or not ?


    i am a teenager that completely fell in love with a female and i mean completely...and just by sight at first just like Anakin... around her i always acted like Anakin does around PaDME IN THE MOVie and what is on screen reflects so much what happened to me...

    Well I think his behaviour is consistent with obsession. But this isn't just about him, it's about whether the romance between the TWO of them was believable.

    Tell me - this girl you were in love with, how did she respond to you ?

    g


  16. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    openmind: I have decided not to watch a single Star Wars movie until May, but when I've seen AOTC again, I'll come back to you ;)



    Star Wars is six, two and one
    /LM
  17. lordmorpheus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2004
    star 4
    forgive me because i havent read ANY of the posts herein, but allow me to put an "infinities" spin on this and tell me if this would have worked.......

    LETS SUPPOSE...that anakin had this life-long crush on amidala....they bump heads in aotc.....movie flows as it did for the most part...SAVE for right after skywalker kills the entire tusken village, comes back, tells padme.....NOW, emotions are certainly high for him now, hatred, remorse, etc....and she in the moment, feels sorry for him, wants to comfort him....NOW, one thing leads to another, so on and so on.....and before you know it, skywalker hits it!!!!! no marriage, no nothing.....now with the events taking place in their normal place....after all is said and done, on the way back to naboo after geonosis battle, she gives him the "this wont work between you and i" speech...she notes her political ties and responsiblilties, and his dedication to the jedi order.....NOW, here's where the story turns dark......he feels rejected, just lost moms, and little does HE know that she's knocked up. now, i admit that this is far more mature than the average star wars tale, but just suppose. they split ways, he gets somewhat obsessive, determined to have her....meanwhile, embroilled in a galactic civil war, is exposed to many dark things and thus, a piece of him dies with every battle, every death and he skirts closer and closer to the darkside, ALL THE WHILE, thinking that she has rejected him...no moms, jedi holding him back...slowly but surely he is slipping into the darkside......

    ok, flame on fokes. talk to me.
  18. Amon_Amarth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2005
    star 6
    Star Wars is a tale, it is NOT SUPPOSED to be mature or real. Love story in AOTC is George`s profound way of storytelling. I don`t understand why people won`t accept that.
  19. SpellLeviticus Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2005
    star 1
    gezvader28

    oh the story has not ended...she responds nicely i guess... the story is still going so i can't give u a good answer on my life yet..
  20. Amon_Amarth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2005
    star 6
  21. lovelucas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2004
    star 4
    openmind - excellent. and i agree that she is anything but rejecting in the fireside scene. you just have to see what's she's saying without words.
  22. cypher9000 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 2
    This is a very believable relationship (well, I'm not sure if Padme's words to Anakin about how she's dieing inside fit her. They sound more like something Anakin would say, but that's a minor quibble). Anakin is overly emotional and loves more than probably a lot of people can or could, but he doesn't really know how to love or what to say or do, and he is somewhat unstable. Padme has always loved him and cares for him, but she is a bit reluctant not only due to status but mostly because of Anakin's instability. Perhaps she is not even sure of how she loves him.

    It's definitely not pure status that makes their relationship dangerous.
  23. Amon_Amarth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2005
    star 6
    I agree with lovelucas that Padme didn`t actually reject Anakin. There is much more in all love scenes that you can see at first. That is exactly what makes the love story belivable.

  24. Wesyeed Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2005
    star 4
    30s serials had poor love stories in my opinion.

    Anyway, love story believable: Anakin's side is. Padme's side is not. George Lucas is a Man. I don't believe he understands women very well and why they would fall in love. That aside... lets hop onto padme.

    She just isn't as fleshed out as a character and I'm certain GL will rectify this with snippets from those family scenes from the DVD. Love, lust or sex doesnt matter to me. What was going on in Padme's head when she said she truly deeply loved anakin and wasnt afraid to die needs to be given some legs to stand on.

    (So I want to know more about what motivates Padme to go for this skinny young jedi guy who cries so much. Sue me.)

    I trust my gut. And i've been moved to tears by love stories in the past, or atleast compelled to feel some way or the other. I went into AotC without any prior spoilerage about their relationship other than it had to happen or else Luke and Leia wouldn't exist. Nothing about it moved me. Han and Leia made me feel sad when leia admitted to han that she loved him, then han said "I know" then lowered into the carbonite.

    Lucas created the same situation with the execution arena scene. It was supposed to be Padme's breaking down before the poop hit the fan and her lover was going to die... nothing happened. It felt cold, like everything Padme says. Maybe it's just that I can't imagine Padme feeling... Anything. She's so stiff and more mature than Anakin in their scenes. It's like she's totally right about their not being to together, then changes her mind out of the blue. If that's happned in 30s serials then I'm glad that style of story telling never caught on.
  25. tee4jc85 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 20, 2005
    star 4
    she has an emotional attatchment to him from when they were younger, he grew up to probably be one of the most handsome men she has ever seen....and he loves her. thats enough.
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