Is Padme and Anakin's relationship believable?

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by inkswamp, Oct 22, 2004.

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  1. angel_of_the_force Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2005
    star 3
    wow, good point, it's not real life, if it it was it is in another galaxy anyway, love could be the absolute opposite as it is here and now.

    and the editting is half the problem. but what gets edited, and what deosn't get edited is or isn't part of the story. the editing is responsible for the story line. if the crew thinks something does not belong in the movie, it's not part of the original story anymore. we can't use "the editing is bad" to make it more realistic.
  2. Wesyeed Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2005
    star 4
    **and the editting is half the problem. but what gets edited, and what deosn't get edited is or isn't part of the story. the editing is responsible for the story line. if the crew thinks something does not belong in the movie, it's not part of the original story anymore. we can't use "the editing is bad" to make it more realistic.**

    I'm not quite sure what you mean by this.

    (What doesnt get edited is or isn't part of the story...) That did a backflip in my brain.

    Anyway, the storyline has changed since the theatrical release and it will once again when the next version of this movie comes out. Every second matters on screen just as every word matters in a book so no one here can dismiss any little editing changes as a different take on a 'core' story. How long the camera focus on natalie or hayden is of uttmost importance to our understanding of what the scene is trying to say. Ergo, changing the entire story, not just bits and pieces. I agree with many that praising or complaining about the love story's badness or brilliantnes is futile because come 2007 a whole new one may be put up on DVD shelves.

    The one on the DVD isn't the same story from the theaters...

    The Original is lost forever.
  3. joeypstyle Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2004
    star 1
    i think it was as akward and uneasy as a real relationship was at its most extreme. hell i kissed a girl at my college a couple months and she had a padme reaction!(i shouldnt have done that) you can be damn sure i had that confused/frustrated annie look on my face. i shouldve forced pushed her into a wall! haha


    n
  4. RebelThx Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2005
    I love AOTC's.However,no matter how many times I watch it I always find myself looking away or fast forwarding through the Padme/Anakin scene in front of the fire.It's just awful,and I can't believe it made it into the theaters.Out of all the screenings didn't anyone think that maybe,just maybe it needed a little more work? Maybe people at the ranch are scared to say "hey George,I love your stuff,however..."

    Oh well....

    The relationship is believable from Anakins view,but not Padme's.This is one of the reasons why this movie got bad reviews.Sorry,just being honest! ;-)
  5. Ididitall4thewookie Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2004
    star 3
  6. Lukecash Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 4
    However, she dis' him again and chastizes him for acting the fool and making her uncomfortable. But again Padme seems to play games with his mind.

    The thing about romantic movies is this: It is a combat of wills... it is a dance of minds, it is the sudden passion of hearts.

    Padme was RESISTING Anakin from the moment he walked back into her life. Her smile and "Annie is that you?"... her amazement that the young boy grew so big....and handsom.

    You wanna know where Anakin started messing up? Same place every normal man does. If he feels, he says it.

    At the begining... His cumsy blurt of about her beauty...infront of his master, and the good Captian. She was on the defenses.

    In fact, ANAKIN keeps pushing the issue, chasing a woman with his fealings. Wich is EXACTLY what a woman dosen't want...especially a emotionaly resticted, in control person like Padme. So she belittles him does many thing to "put" him into his "place" She tries to create walls.

    It would have been UNLIKELY that Padme.. now an experienced Senator, former Queen... would show her cards. the chance KISS, when she allowed herself weekness of the moment... she STOPPPED.

    Lucas CLEVERLY put the kiss BEFORE the picnic to show whe was weakening. When a woman doesn't WANT a man to romantically be involved...she would avoid him at all cost.

    She didn't... she went on a picnic with him.

    When he played it cool... like at the Picnic, at the dinner. He rocks.. she losen up... she shares her dreams and past loves with him. Gals don't do that with every Tom, Dick and chewbacca.

    And then the Infamous Fireplace scene.

    Do you know why Lucas did that sudden Jarring cut?

    Because Anakin outpouring would seem THAT much more disruptive... that much more out of place... that much more uncomfortable.

    It is from Padme's view this cut is made... a nice day...upturned by Anakins overwhelming emotions.

    Yes... She rejected him. It was too much too soon.

    When he was in trouble... when he needed to find his mom...THAT is when Padme showed her love.

    She showed it by staying with him.. She showed it by supporting him every step of the way. And when he is an emotional wreck with guilt after the Tuskien Raider...she does something that only a person would do when someone they love screws up: They do not judge... they do not rebuke... they comfort. They become a rock of sanity, in a crazy world.

    She may SAY one thing, but she does another.

    And did not let up UNTIL she was near death. She even ADMITS one thing, She cannot understand why she loves him...but she know she does.

    Now I am gonna give you ANOTHER peice of revelation. Lucas is a visual director: It's more than just the lines that you have to pay attention to: Look at the way she dresses on Naboo. Backless dresses... A nice little leather number after dinner.

    Women don't dress like that because they want to be friends. Trust me on this one.

  7. openmind Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2003
    star 4
    Lukecash, you missed one thing. Guess who was on *ahem* top* ahem* at end of their frolick in the garden? ;)

    And for anyone else, don't forget (and you can quote me) each time Anakin "moves away", Padme clearly wants him near. The eyes, the shoulders and even eyebrows have it. :cool:

    Anakin: "Disobeying my mandate to protect you". "I have to go (to see my mother)" - going away

    Padme : "I'll go with you" - coming to him

    Anakin: "These are good people Padme. You'll be safe" - going away
    Padme : "Anakin" - Hugs him (Coming to him).

    So I've repeated...can't help it [face_devil]





  8. Amon_Amarth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2005
    star 6
    Very good post. I totaly agree. Everything in their conversation and moves shows us their feelings, so YES, A/P relationship IS BELIEVABLE.
  9. tee4jc85 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 20, 2005
    star 4
    Lukecash- you understand women all to well.

    please, pass this knowledge to every male you know and quickly!
  10. Lukecash Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 4
    On behalf of all males eveywhere

    Stop playing games! [face_praying]
    ;)
  11. Padlei Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2003
    star 4
    Great analysis, Lukecash and openmind ... :D You redeemed the thread for me...

    I'm disappointed with the editing too. I still think after subsequent viewings that the first kiss happens too fast and that they definitely should have kept the family scenes in. But the dialogue grew on me and I totally think Anakin and Padmé are believable. To me it's perfectly clear in AOTC, that Anakin's ready to do anything for her (he even says it so himself) and that Padmé is there for him no matter what... And that, folks, is love... The fact that they're both ready to deny themselves for the other one, that's love...
    And it's meant to be corny, because it's a tragic love story... There's no joyous banter like there was between Han and Leia. It's more like Romeo and Juliet here... So unless you find their dialogue corny, there's no reason to consider AOTC's dialogue is... ;)
  12. openmind Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2003
    star 4
    Great analysis, Lukecash and openmind ... You redeemed the thread for me...

    You're welcome. With regards to the family scenes, I think there will exposition to it (say in 2 months time :D).

  13. tee4jc85 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 20, 2005
    star 4
    Lukecash- not ALL women play games!

    <--- was the victim of a boy who played games, ergo, the result is the anti-Padme ;)
  14. Lukecash Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 4
    The editing was done to follow the Star Wars Style. Lucas was mindful of the fact that most of the fans were not there for the romance.. but for the action and suspence. Lucas wisely or unwisely cut the movie to fit the Star Wars tempo.

    The first kiss happens about the same time as Han and Lieas first kiss... but the difference between EMPRIE and AOTC was that the characters had spent years together... so their possible romance was part of their opening scenes...not a re-establishing of relationship.

    However for kids my age, the romance part was just strange... because the Princess was supposed to get together with the hero...Luke. I didn't see ANY attraction between them in the first movie.
  15. SkottASkywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2002
    star 4
    Is Padme and Anakin's relationship believable?

    Yes.

    It feels like STAR WARS. :)
  16. aPPmaSTer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 23, 2004
    star 3
    "It feels like STAR WARS."

    The only other love relationship there is in Star Wars is the Han/Leia relationship, which feels totally different than this one. So how does that feel like Star Wars?
  17. Obi-Can Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2002
    star 3
    When he was in trouble... when he needed to find his mom...THAT is when Padme showed her love.

    But thats the problem. She only shows a nurturing love not a romantic love. Its not the same. This seems to indicate that she is comfortable caring about him in a friendship like relationship, but doesnt see him as a potential husband or lover. This is also obvious to the audience who see this recurring them in their relationship. When they were on Coruscant and then at Naboo palace and the farm Padme is treating him like a little brother.

    She showed it by staying with him.. She showed it by supporting him every step of the way. And when he is an emotional wreck with guilt after the Tuskien Raider...she does something that only a person would do when someone they love screws up: They do not judge... they do not rebuke... they comfort. They become a rock of sanity, in a crazy world.

    Actually what she is showing is a mother's unconditional love for a son. Mothers forgive their children anything, and will protect them no matter what they do.

    And did not let up UNTIL she was near death. She even ADMITS one thing, She cannot understand why she loves him...but she know she does.

    I don't think the problem is that the audience believes that she doesnt love him. She obviously does. The question is whether the general audience buys the romance.

    And I say no and the reason being is because Anakin is portrayed as a jerk, who goes on a rampage and kills people of which Padme is aware. She never shows any overwhelming passion for the man, that would entice her or cause her to forget all her morals and common sense and fall in love with him.

    The falling in love, the passionate love isnt shown at all by her. The most we get is a vague attraction and friendship. She admits that there is potential for it to go somewhere if he wasnt a Jedi, but it isnt worth it to her to find out because he's a jedi and its not allowed.

    Now I am gonna give you ANOTHER peice of revelation. Lucas is a visual director: It's more than just the lines that you have to pay attention to: Look at the way she dresses on Naboo. Backless dresses... A nice little leather number after dinner.

    Well, that is an assumption on your part since we don't see her on Naboo any other time and on holiday. However, in TPM the pink little number she wore at the medal ceremony was pretty sexy for a 14 yr old. So I think this is normal for her. Also in the OT women seem to dress pretty sexy, look at Aayala Secura, not what you would expect from a Jedi.



  18. openmind Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2003
    star 4
    I second the "It feels like Star Wars" :D

  19. SwordsWoman Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 2005
    "Is Padme and Anakin's relationship believable?"

    I think that some things are believable and others aren't. I would say the attraction between them is believable, and that they can have fun with each other, is believable. I think they remind each other of their more carefree days as children, when Anakin did not have the responsibility of becoming a Jedi, and Padme was temporarily free of her duties as queen when on Tatooine and was able to relax a little bit (I mean the parts such as when Anakin is showing her Threepio). I think that stuff came back when they are hanging out at Naboo, and they were happy for it.

    I think Padme falling for Anakin is less believable than Anakin falling for Padme. Amidala is obviously a very compassionate woman. She cares for people. We know that Anakin misses his mother greatly -- this was a big deal in TPM that the Jedi Council could see, and it was supposed to carry over into AotC. And when he leaves her, Padme later tells him that she will always care for him. This obviously means a lot to Anakin and he doesn't forget it. He is nervous about meeting her again ten years later and I think he hopes to be cared for again. Not that his relationship to Obi-Wan is bad, it looks quite friendly, but Obi-Wan isn't so much a nurturer as a teacher, and Anakin wants someone who won't rebuke him every time he makes a mistake. So it makes sense that he's drawn to Padme. (Actually, I don't think true love would make sense. I don't think that loving someone for being a mother-figure is good for marriage)

    I think it's a bit deal that Padme goes to Coruscant at the beginning of AotC, to vote on an issue that would affect the lives of many people, even though they are people she doesn't know. She cares for them. She does it risking her life, and it causes the death of her handmaiden, which makes her regret coming to Coruscant. That I think shows how compassionate she is.

    I think this is important because the Tusken problem is obviously a point where their relationship changes. Because we have seen that Amidala cares for lives, I think she agreed with Anakin that what he did to the Sand People wasn't a good thing to do. I don't think she would love someone who would go ballistic on people like that. But at the same time she is a nurturing type, the kind that Anakin needs, and so she puts aside her doubts about his character to comfort him when he needs it. If she's smart, she wouldn't forget what he's done, and if she's still interested in him, she'd talk to him about it later. She probably would have, but the whole Geonosis thing got in the way. Then things happened, and she was about to die in the arena. I have been at points where I could have died, and I know that when you are there, then the bad things about people wouldn't matter anymore and you just want them to know how much you care about them. I think that Padme was at a point where she wanted to take the risk and marry Anakin despite what she knows about him and his dark side, because she was about to die, and realized that life is short.

    So no, I don't buy that she really loved Anakin. I think she did believe she did, though. I also think she might have really been in love with who she thought he was, for example, maybe she thought the Sand People deal was a mistake that he wouldn't make again. Maybe she was a little blinded by her emotions and didn't take it as seriously as she should have. However, from TPM I think she should be smart, so I don't think she should forget his faults.

    A poster mentioned the clothing during the times they hung out at Naboo. I think these were times when Padme sorta lost her head. Remember, Padme was reluctant to pursue a real relationship because, according to her values, she didn't want to "live a lie." She "couldn't do that." It would go against her values. Whether you think it's OK or not to live a lie as long as you could marry the person you love, it obviously was not OK with her. She felt pulled in different directions. The fact that emotional problems kept coming up (Shmi and the Tuskens,
  20. MAGAX_DESTROYER Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2005
    star 4
    "No it's not believable"

    At the time when I obsessed with Darth VAder, I asked other ppl questions about him "Lili, he was married!" I goes o_O???? How can that be? A man with such a good reputation, too evil to be married. I spilled out everything & I FREAKED[face_hypnotized] !!

    That wasn't a bad relationship, but it had a bad ending:p

  21. counselormorris Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2005
    I think the relationship is believable, just maybe unhealthy. As Swordswoman points out, Padme is definitely going more and more towards emotion mind than rational mind or wise mind (integrating emotion and rational minds), even from the first scene in the movie when she sees someone die for her. I think it's natural for her to seek comfort and safety in the arms of someone whose superhuman power had saved her before (Annie's skill at podracing bailed her out when her ship was damaged), when she's running from planet to planet after two failed attempts on her life. Padme idealizes Anakin, and is (perhaps willfully) blind to his anger and its consequences, because she needs to feel safe, she knows as a jedi he's strong enough to protect her. She seems genuinely empathetic to Anakin's suffering as he loses his mother, then as he takes revenge and suffers more for it. Her care for him persists even after she's out of danger (they get married). Perhaps her career in public service reflects a personality that feels satisfied when taking care of others, like a mother; and anyone can see Anakin needs help, needs acceptance of his thoughts, emotions, and behaviors that Obi Wan chides as being unfit for a jedi. That her security chief was worried about her doing something foolish suggests a pattern of impulsivity in her life, even at times of great peril. Also, if Anakin is the first man/boy she's brought home for dinner with her family (deleted scene with commentary), she may not have the experience to understand how bad being in a relationship with someone given to rage and jealosy can be. To me, this is a realistic relationship, although whether it's love depends on what love means to you.
  22. SwordsWoman Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Ah, good points raised. That Corde dying was one thing that made Padme feel rather than think was one of the things I hadn't thought of.

    I agree, there are many aspects that are believable and certainly happen in the real world, such as the reasons they are drawn to each other. Their needs for comforting and such.

    I guess there are many kinds of love and ways to define it. It would take forever to attempt to do that. But I will give an example that I read somewhere else on this forum. If your husband is an alcoholic, do you turn a blind eye, or tell him he's only human and it's OK, or do you tell him it's wrong? If you don't do the latter, then I think it makes you an enabler.

    I think that Padme for some reason or other didn't tell Anakin that what he did to Sand People was wrong. It's possible she thought she was being nice. But I think it still made her an enabler, because if she truly loved Anakin -- cared about him and his psyche -- she'd bring that terrible issue out in the open and made sure he was truly over it, that it was truly resolved.

    So I guess the relationship was more or less believable. But the relationship as a loving one, was not. It was unhealthy. Not that Anakin and Amidala didn't try, but there were problems within each of them that were obstacles.

    It's interesting that, before they began their relationship and Anakin was talking about Obi-Wan's tendency to correct him all the time or something. Then Padme tells him "it's how we grow." I notice that she is one person who does NOT help him grow. That she does not talk with him about the Sand People actually hinders his maturing. It seems that Anakin was a bad influence and caused Padme to be a bad influence.
    I just realized that above bit, so I'll have to think on that some more.
  23. counselormorris Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2005
    Swordswoman,
    That's a good point, I hadn't thought of that. When Anakin tells her how he's killed the sand people, she tells him to be angry is to be human. She's giving him support and empathy, but you're absolutely right, there's no truth there. And when he relates to Obi Wan, he gets support and truth, but no empathy. I wonder if it isn't even more unimportant that he grow because she makes the decisions (and he gives up trying to argue with her), he has no power in the relationship, so what does it matter whether he knows right from wrong?
  24. SwordsWoman Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Counselormorris, are we discussing the relationship in two different threads? Because I think they are kind of meshing together in my mind. :) Apologies if this will cause confusion.

    Hmm, I might be confused myself. I know that Padme says "you're only human" but is she referring to being angry? Or referring to his acting on anger? I think they are two very different things. His problem wasn't so much that he was angry but that he acted on it in a very bad way, and I'm not sure if they made the distinction very clear.

    "I wonder if it isn't even more unimportant that he grow because she makes the decisions (and he gives up trying to argue with her), he has no power in the relationship, so what does it matter whether he knows right from wrong?"

    I hadn't thought of that. If that's true, then that would make the relationship even more unhealthy. All people have strenghts and weaknesses. If one person rules the relationship, then the other person cannot make up for the weaknesses, nor bring in his own strengths. Even worse is that Padme has stopped using her head very well, so it's bad if she makes all the decisions.

    Not that I think either of them make very good decisions.

    As for what does it matter whether he knows right from wrong? Well, I would think that every human should. He should think for himself. What if Padme is gone? What will he do then? No one to make decisions for him. I don't think this power thing is healthy and it makes me doubt more that their relationship is based on love.

    I'll have to think about it again.
  25. counselormorris Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2005
    You're right, it'll be simpler just to continue in one thread. I wasn't sure about the exact words, so I flipped on subtitles and Padme says, "To be angry is to be human." I agree that her empathy is a healthy part of her relationship with him. She's good at identifying his emotions, but he doesn't get behind his emotions, he lets them push him around. You make a good distinction between him having anger (we all have a right to our emotions) and using that anger as an excuse for the destruction he brings on the tuskan raiders.

    Right, every human should know right from wrong. I guess I clumsily worded my point, that his responsibilities in their relationship aren't an impetus for him to grow. What I mean is, if he were responsible for making meaningful decisions in their relationship, he would have to learn about the consequences of his behaviors, because if he screwed up they would both suffer those consequences, and Padme probably wouldn't stay with him if she kept suffering for Anakin's impulsiveness. But since he doesn't make decisions in their relationship, it isn't really as important that he learn about consequences because they'll be irrelevant; the consequences of Anakin's decisions don't exist until Padme lets him make a choice for them.

    I like the way you put that, one person can make up for the other's weaknesses, it's such a comforting thought that someone will be there to make up for our shortfalls. I made that point in my group therapy class last year, and my counselor/professor asked me whether I was choosing not to grow, not to become stronger in my weaknesses. He (a family counselor) made the point that depending on someone else to overcome my weaknesses isn't a good thing for a relationship, that it leads to high expectations and continued insecurities. I got irritated, the way I do when I know someone's right, but especially because it's a beautiful picture (two people making up for each other's weaknesses), it feels so safe. Growing up is more gratifying. But it doesn't always feel safe.
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