Is Padme and Anakin's relationship believable?

I don't anybody has said this yet, I didn't read all of the replies. Padme and Anakin's relationship is believable. They get together for very stupid reasons. For years, Anakin has thought about a beautiful and kind girl he met and hung around with for a few days when he was younger. For ten years he has been bulding her up in his mind into something perfect. He can't help himself to not say stupid things when he finally sees her again. Padme most likely thinks pretty highly of herself and probably thinks that she can make great decisions when it comes to guys. There is absolutely no reason for Padme to like Anakin for non-shallow reasons. She thinks he's hot, just like he thinks she's hot. Anakin whines constantly, believes in dictatorship, kills women and children, and is horrible at talking to girls. Padme may be smart, but she only likes Anakin because she finds him attractive. Look around the real world; you can see girls like that all of the time.

 

Of course it is. It's awkward and cringe-inducing, yes, but remember that Anakin and Padme are young, sheltered, and very naive. So their relationship would reflect that.

 

It's awkward and cringe-inducing, yes,

Couldn't have put if better myself.

 

I'm going to put Tatooine_Gemini's post from 'The Little Things that Annoy You' in here:

Your point about Padme and Anakin.. was that basically they Both annoyed you? I agree with Padme being incredibly badly played by Portman.. but I feel Hayden has done a verrrry good job.
Vader is not someone that comes out of a hat.. he must have pain..a past.. a reason.. a dedication to remaining alive after being handicapped so badly.

I don't think Anakin is being portrayed as a serial killer with a mental illness like you put it. At the point of EP2 he is not quite a man, not quite a Jedi.. and very much still a boy inside.
Picture if you will this life progress and see if you'd like to live this way..

-You have no father
-You have no siblings
-You are planets away from your mothers homeworld and her family
-You live on a desert planet with 2suns and a huge desert, sandstorms and all.
-You also live in one of the deadliest cities around obiwan calls it "a Wretched hive of scum and villany"
-Your Mother is a poor SLAVE with escape punishable by death
-YOU are a SLAVE with escape punishable by death
-You are teased by your friends for your dreams and your special abilities, and your podracing.
-You are clearly different and very talented which makes you feel as if you can do more, but you cannot while you are in slavery.
THEN your life changes.
BUT you are only 10 years old when a strange man comes and takes you to become a Jedi, fight in a battle, blow up a ship, meet a beautiful girl who is way older than you and out of reach, and then be questioned and proded by real Jedi Masters who just tell you in the end that NO you will not be trained you are too old and you have much fear.
FINALLY one Jedi dies and his apprentice takes you as a padawan but only because his Masters dying wish was for him to do so. Gee thanks
>>>>>>>Then cut to EP2
-You are now 20 and have learned to live a life without possessions or attatchments (even to family and loved ones). And told you MUST obey.
-You are also still with the Jedi that had to take you as an apprentice, not quite knowing if it was right to do so.. and He does nothing but call you reckless, your senses not that keen, and fear you.
Meaning that he is way too possessive and critical and he does not listen to you or let you move on.
>>EVEN when you are having horrible nightmares about your mother back on Tatooine.. all Obiwan can say to you is "dreams pass in time". What about Yoda.. he cared enough about Luke that he knew to look closer at Lukes visions and he saw that Luke saw the future. Obiwan somehow is not powerful enough to understand or feel Anakin and Anakin suffers growing up with this jedi master because of this.<<
-He doesnt feel comfortable as a Jedi yet.
He hasn't quite made the commitment in his heart to be a Jedi for real.. He does still dream about the prestige of being a Jedi and the excitement (like he dreamed as a boy) but yoda says to luke about excitement: "a Jedi craves not these things."
SO even before Anni sees that his mother has died because obiwan did not tell him that his vision was real, and he did not get there in time.. even before he holds her in his arms as she dies and then Cracks and fills with an anger that many of us could never imagine..

(imagine your mom kidnapped and tied to a post for months.. being tortured and her face cut..and god knows what-else to the point of death.. and imagine you are a jedi and you knew something was wrong and you were trapped in a world of protocol where you cant disobey your master and go to her.. until you finally have no choice.. but still you cannot help her. Youve failed.)

But even before that awful moment.. Anni was filled with fear, resesntment, lonliness, heartache for padme, loss of home, a brutal past as a slave, and no one but obiwan to comfort him or see what is happening. Anni always showed signs of being on his way to hate.. and the "darkside" and it is the people around him who share the blame for his fall.
I dont call him a serial kille

 

this much agreed: there are small scenes that would have been improved by better acting. majority is believable from a star wars point of view. for those critical of natalie i offer:
1. the packing scene-countering anakin's complaints about obiwan with "mentors see our faults - it's the only way to grow -" paraphrasing here, followed by the best close-up in the movie of padme's face asking anakin (she's thinking anie here) not to grow up too fast.
2. the look of love (yes! it's there) in the naboo dining room scene when anakin force pushes the fruit over to her.
3. helping anakin to "save face" when obiwan lectured anakin in her apartment "perhaps with the mere presence...all will be revealed" looking from obiwan to anakin as a way to smooth over an awkward moment that embarassed anakin.
4. i have to say this - i just do - i thought the fireplace scene was a revelation. recognition by padme that she's over her head emotionally; anakin trying to find a way to pull logical padme to his emotional side, despite the barriers. initially this is done sincerely, then manipulatively and when that does not work, he even lies - that she is right, they couldn't keep that kind of secret. his eyes are the beginning of vader here.
5. i don't understand the venom directed at the "truly, deeply love you" words spoken by padme. i thought the scene was moving and sincere and when it's followed by the entrance into the killing arena with john williams' score, well, hey now - doesn't get better than this, do it?
6. the interaction of padme and anakin as they fight side by side on geonosis.
7. padme rushing to the injured anakin's side and embracing him in front of both obiwan and yoda
8. the wedding...........beautiful. and anakin never seemed more self-assured and padme never more emotional as she looks past all that logic she trained herself to use in all decisions. she gave it up to....love.

 

I believe it I don't have a problem with it at all. I enjoy the love story and the whole movie its self.

 

It is perhaps the most believable thing in the entire film.

 

No, the relationship as it is is not believable, it seems contrived and rushed in order to get to the end of the movie quicker.You don't watch them fall in love in AOTC.

You don't watch them fall in love in AOTC. You watch them drop the pretense of NOT being in love.
Then when did they fall in love? This implies that they are actually in love at some point. It would HAVE to be in TPM. And give me a break, the kid was 9. I have never met a 14 year old girl who had the hots for a 9 year old. Those are worlds apart.

In the beginning of AOTC, I always found it clear that Anakin had been obsessing over Padme for a decade (which I can buy) but Padme was almost "reintroduced" to Anakin and it was a pleasant surprise, but nothing more. Only in the packing scene did she finally seem to actually NOTICE Anakin again. From there until the end of the movie, only like 4 or 5 days goes by. This is plenty of time to develop a crush and some serious sexual tension, but true love enough to get married? Come on now. Padme was no irresponsible Britney Spears, she was a responsible strong woman who had served her world for years.

I think the major problem is the line, "I truly, deeply love you." Without that line, the whole relationship could be seen as a love in the initial stages, which could be continued in ROTS. But that line is overkill and like someone said earlier, cringe inducing.

Yeah Luke and Leia's relationship evolved over time, but there is a huge difference. They were both (for the most parts) adults when they met, and that relationship developed over about 4 years (or however long the timeline in OT was). Again, at least IMO, Padme had not been pining over a nine year old for ten years.

 

I don't believe they love each other, "really, truly" love each other, no. I believe Anakin fixated on Padme for a long time and then eventually lucked into the relationship materializing, and I believe Padme---so concerned with her political duty all this time---wanted to let her heart go once, before she met her end on Geonosis. She may have found Anakin awkwardly charming, or she may have found him heroically brave, or she may have found him alluringly vulnerable, or she may even have been manipulated a bit by him on all accounts---but I've never believed she loved him in any sort of transcendent sense when she declared such a deep love for him. I didn't believe it in the theater, and I didn't believe it the last time I saw it on DVD.

I suspect---or, at least I hope---the superficial nature of their love for each other will be a theme in ROTS.

(As the PT is invariably compared to the OT, let me add that I believe the Han-Leia relationship is roughly as superficial in the original saga, or at least it is at the end of ESB. In some ways, Han-Leia are at an "advantage" in that it is the EU that gets to explore rougher aspects of their relationship, rather than on screen; obviously, Anakin-Padme won't have that luxury. Nevertheless, I do find Han-Leia more enjoyable---not just for childhood nostalgia reasons, but because I found their "love on the run" story easier to take than Anakin-Padme's "love sitting around most of the time" sequences. In addition, I'll fall back on the old show-don't-tell saw. Perhaps that is why I don't find the Anakin-Padme love that believable in the first place.)

 

As the PT is invariably compared to the OT, let me add that I believe the Han-Leia relationship is roughly as superficial in the original saga, or at least it is at the end of ESB.

I dont agree. Han and Leia had 3 years to build up that sexual tension and actual love. The dam finally bursts in ESB. Padme and Anakin had 4 days.

 

I think Anakin has been thinking about her a lot in the 10 years between TPM and AOTC. When he had to leave his mother behind, Padme took the time to comfort him, something Qui-Gon didn't.

Natalie put it really good in one of the AOTC DVD docs when she said something like "...and then they meet after 10 years, and she's like "wow!" he has turned into this handsome young Hayden Christensen."
In scenes like the packing scene and the encouraged to love scene, Padme realizes how much Anakin has grown up.

I think their relationship is believable, though I
think that's very personal. I don't like every scene equally, but I do get the message.
I also think Anakin really loves her, instead of being "obsessed" or a "stalker". Throughout the movie, Anakin is being very respectfull towards Padme. He offers her his hand when they get out of some kind of vehicle, and he backs off when she says so.

I agree that the family scenes would've been great to see. Not only do they add to Padme's character, they also show more of Padme's doubts towards her feelings for Anakin, something we actually only see in the fireplace scene.

 

hey!!! you guys ever hear of a nifty little story by a quaint little author, shakespeare, called "romeo and juliet"? that takes place over a few days also - only these characters have just met. and-oh yeah, howz about "west side story"??? i know i know - it was based on r & j but updated. so.......AOTC is an updated shakespearean tragedy. where people do meet/fall in love quickly/and have a tragic end only padme and anakin's story evolves over a dozen years. and yes this is different from the OT - as many have mentioned. it can't be light .. it can't be jovial .. it can't be han and leia. IT'S NOT THE SAME STORY NOR SET IN THE SAME TIME - it's the downhill slide to disaster not the new hope of a new beginning.

 

I also think Anakin really loves her, instead of being "obsessed" or a "stalker". Throughout the movie, Anakin is being very respectfull towards Padme. He offers her his hand when they get out of some kind of vehicle, and he backs off when she says so.

Certainly. And being fixated on someone internally does not mean the person's externalities will reflect that fixation.

Basically, it appears Anakin had an intense crush. That's understandable enough, for every guy in the world roughly his age (as I was, once) has felt that way. It doesn't equal love, and---upon reflection---the person knows that at the time. I surmise Anakin didn't have time to reflect on that after Geonosis, and we'll just have to see if 3(?) years of forward action after that will make his love for her---and Padme's for him---any more mature. Given the circumstances they set forth at a couple of points in AOTC, I tend to doubt it. But we'll see.

 

I dont agree. Han and Leia had 3 years to build up that sexual tension and actual love. The dam finally bursts in ESB. Padme and Anakin had 4 days.

True. On the other hand, Han-Leia had a mutual unspoken attraction + love on the run by the end of ESB. I'd consider that superficial---that is, their love had not been tested by "everyday life" or deep reflection.

What I'm saying is that, at the end of ESB, it is an open question---in my mind, at least---whether Leia actually loves Han, or whether she is reacting to the stress placed on her at the moment. It's an even more open question, in my estimation, whether Han actually loves Leia, or whether all he's done is seduce her for awhile. (Or whether she's seduced him.) I don't mean to imply anything subversive from Han (or from Leia), but I don't see much beyond a relenting to physical attraction and superficial pronoucements of love.

 

called "romeo and juliet"? that takes place over a few days also - only these characters have just met. and-oh yeah, howz about "west side story"???

Of course.

At the same time, some do the story better than others.

Don't look at me, I'm just sayin' . . .

 

Aw hell, why not one more post . . .

I don't expect anyone to agree with me, but I've long believed that too much of the PT was spent on a nine year-old Anakin. I don't for a second take myself as a George Lucas or believe my advice is worth soliciting, but I wonder how the Anakin-Padme relationship had been different if, say, the nine year-old Anakin had freed himself from Tatooine early in TPM and then the narrative had jumped forward a decade (I know, not a SW convention at all), with the Naboo crisis and Padme's introduction occurring then, when both are around 19 or 20. The first hints of romance could have then been dropped in the first movie and been given time to develop a bit more.

I know that idea is probably quite distasteful to most, and it would have dramatically altered many other factors (QG-OB1 relationship, Maul/Dooku?, etc.), but the thought has crossed my mind more than once.

 

Frans:

Since she met Palo in the "Legislative Youth program" one would assume she was already headed down the road to politics. Secondly, the fact of when if occured in her life is rather irrelevant anyway. The point is that she'd been in relationships before, and so preomblay would've learned more restraint and gained more experience than she displays in her relationship with Anakin.

Joguy:

Indeed, that is areason lots of people get together. However, there are some key flaws in your argument. Namely, most people don't carry it so far as to get married. Secondly, those relationships seem to become less common as people have more experience with relationships--experience which Padme has had. As a Senator and formerly Queen, she probably had plenty of access to "hot guys" if that was all she was looking to indulge herself in, and yet she never has. So why would she this time?

lovelucas:

The comparison to Shakespeare is completely invalid. He used "love at first sight" as a convention of his work, whereas Lucas actually tried to show a developmental trajectory for love and has evne his supporters concluding it was essentially "love at first sight"--meaning his attempt obviously failed.

Inkswamp, Lars, Frans, etc:

All of you keep talking about how it's not "love at first sight" but it's something felt initially, that later "blooms" or "develops" or "grows." I would agree, but my fundamental problem with this whole argument is that we never see this development. We just see the initial possibility of a relationship, and then an abrupt declaration of her "truely, deeply, loving" him. Can someone point out to me an actual sequence of events that shows this development?

In general, I think you guys are also under-estimating Padme. Yes, she went into politics at a very young age. However, there is nothing about politics which suggests it is devoid of access to sexual relationships. Everything from the many concubines or ancient rulers to the modern day scandals of Kennedy, Clinton, and the former Republican candidate for Ill Senator suggest quite the opposite. Moreover, we know that Padme had had at least one previous relationship. In light of all this, it seems pretty inexplicable that she would fall so hard and fast for Anakin.

 

I took it as she had one "relationship" when this guy was 12. Is that considered experienced?

it seems pretty inexplicable that she would fall so hard and fast for Anakin.

Well when she was Queen, she had feelings for Anakin in some way. The Palo relationship probably was over by then. But after 10 years she's attracted to Anakin clearly.

She even hugs him before he looks for his mother. She's feeling for him, no doubt.

By the time had massacred the Tuskens, Padme comforts him. Only a person in love could even consider "unconditionally" to still support after such an event.

She's reminding him that he's human. She loves him the human. Not the Jedi.

That's what I got out of it.

 

Only a person in love could even consider "unconditionally" to still support after such an event.


that depends on your view of the tuskans.

if you see them as human sensitive intelligent beings i agree completely.

if you view them as little more than animals though i can see why she wouldn't be bothered.

wolves were pushed into practical extinction in most of the northeastern part of america and noone shed a tear.

they don't realy define that clearly enough for my tastes.

i do tend to agree with you though based on what we have, just felt like playing devils advocate here.

 

Come on now, is it so hard to believe that Anakin has had a fictation, which developed into love in four days? Spending 4 intimate days with a beautiful woman you've been dreaming about for 10 years is quite a lot.

Padme on the other hand has a very fond memory of sweet little Annie whom she finds to have grown into tall dark and handsom watching over her. As a friend of mine elegandly put it, and I trust her completely on this, -'I would have f#cked his brains out!'.

Maybe somebody has forgotten how easy is to say 'I love you' when you're young. You barely know the difference between love and a crush.

 

i do tend to agree with you though based on what we have

I also agree on what you mention about Tuskens, and how they are viewed. To me Padme, understood that Anakin did an unfortunate act.

But she on a personal level may not be clear exactly who these Tuskens are, but going by Cliegg (a resident) who calls them "mindless monsters" who took Shmi (and as far as Padme will remember who was a kind loving woman).

There are no clear line on the Tuskens, but since Anakin mentioned about the women and children, Padme would think that Anakin took them as innocent and did regret his actions.

I really don't see why under the circumstances Padme wouldn't support him in some way (provided ofcourse she did love him). And she did- as far as I am concerned.

 

Well when she was Queen, she had feelings for Anakin in some way. The Palo relationship probably was over by then. But after 10 years she's attracted to Anakin clearly.

Attracted, sure. Truly, deeply, in love? No way.

You make it seem like she has been pining for Anakin for ten years, and I think the initial scene between them in AOTC proves this wrong. That was the first time she NOTICED Anakin again. The feelings she had for that decade revolved around a 9 year old, not someone she saw as a possible suitor. Come on, the kid was 9, the most feelings she could have had were sister-like. Put it into context.

She even hugs him before he looks for his mother. She's feeling for him, no doubt.

So would I, as a human being, that doesnt mean I am willing to marry him 4 days later.

She's reminding him that he's human. She loves him the human. Not the Jedi.

That's what I got out of it.

You are probably dead on as far as GL was going, it just seems rushed and contrived to me.

Come on now, is it so hard to believe that Anakin has had a fictation, which developed into love in four days? Spending 4 intimate days with a beautiful woman you've been dreaming about for 10 years is quite a lot.

No, this is actually the believable part of it, I think we all have been there.

Padme on the other hand has a very fond memory of sweet little Annie whom she finds to have grown into tall dark and handsom watching over her. As a friend of mine elegandly put it, and I trust her completely on this, -'I would have f#cked his brains out!'.

Ask your friend if she would tell him that she truly, deeply, loves him (even if they had knocked boots) and then if she would marry him a few days later.

 

So would I as a human being, that doesnt mean I am willing to marry him 4 days later.

IDIFTW, do think that, even when war has broken out? Its the Galaxy at war. When then do you think they should get married? (But Im not confused in your POV, just can't find a better icon )

I wonder what was the situation like for those living when the World Wars broke out, especially lovers who were involved in it

 

IDIFTW, do think that, even when war has broken out? Its the Galaxy at war. When then do you think they should get married? confused (But Im not confused in your POV, just can't find a better icon tongue )

Its not a matter of when I think they should have gotten married, its a matter of when I think the two characters were intwined enough realistically to have gotten married when they did in the movie.\

It simply doesnt come across to me in any way that Padme was capable of what the movie showed happened. Anakin? Sure. I would have married on the spot a girl I had been pining over for ten years. But her? It just doesnt seem on her end (at least what was given to us) that she realistically was in any position to do that.

I remember when I got an advanced screening ticket to AOTC from my friend because his mom is the movie critic here in Memphis. When we left the theater, she had us answer some questions about the movie for the local paper. The first question she asked was what did I dislike most about the movie. My main gripe was that the relationship between Anakin and Padme was forced and did not translate onscreen. Later, I asked her what most people were saying, and she told me that what I said was what almost everyone was saying (at least that night).

 

i said this earlier, it echoes your thoughts so i'll repeat.

basicly the relationship is half believable.

hayden's half works makes sense and i can see it.

padme on the other hand not at all.

she does the mega plot twist type 180 on us in a situation that it didn't fit.

they needed to build her towards it, even the fireplace scene did not accomplish that on her side.

maybe it's the actress or the dialog, but i'm realy inclined to think it's the editing.

given all that was cut of her family and their time toghether on that trip, i fear the reason for her sudden declaration landed on the cutting room floor.