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PT Is Qui-Gon anyone else's favorite Jedi?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Darth Arthurius, Dec 3, 2017.

  1. Darth Arthurius

    Darth Arthurius Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Jan 29, 2016
    I feel Qui-Gon is everything a Jedi should be. He is honest, but he's not afraid to bend the rules. He believes not in the "end justifies the means" but that the will of Force will be shown in the outcome of an event. He places faith in the Force as no other Jedi does, placing its Will above himself. He believes that the end justifies the means to an extent because of his belief in the will of the Living Force. He believes that keeping focus on the present is more important than meditating or ruminating over what might be - perhaps if the Jedi Order had followed his attitude, they would've been able to see the Sith growing stronger and been able to see the threat that was literally in front of them.

    He was stoic and wise but also no BS, but at the same time, he had a deep level of compassion for lesser beings, but shrewdly contrasted his compassion with its role in the greater good (Saving Jar-Jar's life from Boss Nass was not only a compassionate act, but doing so got he and Obi-Wan a much needed navigator; Taking Anakin from slavery was a just act, but one which also was useful in getting he and the Queen off the planet)

    He just strikes me as the right balance of Light and Dark, a true Grey Jedi, not dogmatic. While he was "unethical" he did not manipulate his apprentice or use his apprentice as a pawn the way Yoda and Obi-Wan used Luke as their weapon to destroy Vader and the Emperor. He was not a pathological liar like Obi-Wan, either, and he lacked Obi-Wan's elitist contempt for "pathetic lifeforms" as well as Obi-Wan's arrogance and cocky belief in his own abilities.

    Compare his relationship with Obi-Wan to Obi'Wan's with Anakin's. Where Qui-Gon is encouraging to his Padawan, Obi-Wan is always undercutting Anakin's abilities, which helps lead to the frictions between them.

    Qui-Gon is, next to Han Solo, probably my favorite character in the entire franchise, and probably my favorite Jedi too.

    Anyone else?
     
  2. GauntGrandMoff

    GauntGrandMoff Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2016
    Whenever I hear Qui Gons voice in the beginning of TPM I feel a sense of ease and safety lol.

    He's the Eddard Stark of Star Wars. When he died the Jedi were offically ***cked. If he'd been around I don't think Anakin would have become Vader. Obi Wan failed, he should have adopted Qui Gons beliefs...instead he just sided with mace and the rest....

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  3. Darth Arthurius

    Darth Arthurius Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Jan 29, 2016
    He was the only good Jedi. Great comparison to Ned Stark.
     
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  4. Jester J Binks

    Jester J Binks Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2016
    A bit of a religious fanatic nutjob.

    Had he survived Maul, he probably would have been whining during AotC. "Oh. There's something not right here. Should we really become generals in a war? My master's acting kinda funny. We should look into that. Anakin, I will treat you like an adult instead of just scolding you like a child. We'll discuss the merits of all sides and then offer my advice on why I chose a certain path over others. We're going to try and overthrow the democratically elected chancellor? That's not our place. I'm leaving the Jedi Order. It has lost its way."

    Damn hippie.monk always talking about an imaginary voice guiding him.

    My favorite Jedi is Mace. Without his moves, the Original Trilogy would have just been Senators talking about how they finally wised up to Palpatine and called for a vote of no confidence. Not to mention, Supreme Leader Mace in the new trilogy.
     
  5. Erkan12

    Erkan12 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 27, 2013
    Qui-Gon = A natural Jedi
    Maul = A natural Sith

    Everything else was unusual. Obi-Wan was something special, Anakin was chosen one, Palpatine was something special. Yoda and Mace Windu were different types of Jedi as well.
     
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  6. Kenneth Morgan

    Kenneth Morgan Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    May 27, 1999
    Qui-Gon achieved the balance between personal attachment and professional distance. He understood what Ani would have to do if he joined the Jedi, and let him know what he was facing. However, he still took action to make sure Shmi would be alright, which would have eased at least some of Ani's worries. I'm convinced that, in AOTC, he would've counseled Ani to be calm and control his fears over Shmi, while arranging to make sure she was OK. He might not have approved of Ani marrying Padme, but he would've addressed the subject in an understanding way, giving Ani a chance to give his view and not be afraid of condemnation. And he certainly would've provided the fatherly attitude that Ani needed, rather than Palpatine, who dishonestly used such an attitude as part of his villainous plans. We can see that he seems to have taken a similarly balanced attitude in his dealings with Kenobi, guiding and encouraging him, rather than sternly laying down the law, as Kenobi did with Ani in AOTC.

    Regarding the Jedi, Qui-Gon took the role of the Jedi, as guardians of peace and justice, seriously. I doubt he would've agreed with the idea of moving from that stance to one of military leadership. And he seemed more willing to follow the Force wherever it lead, even if no one else understood or agreed with him. And I don't see him running off to bust Palpatine and seize control of the Senate at the first possible opportunity. He would've opposed Palpatine, yes, but not in such a hasty and illegal way.

    We see signs that Kenobi was starting to follow Qui-Gon's example of a more understanding attitude in ROTS. Unfortunately, his earlier way of mentoring, by being more strict and less open to Ani's concerns and problems, had already driven a wedge between them. Kenobi is also willing, but not eager, to encourage Ani to act unethically, while going along with Ani being needlessly humiliated by the Council. I don't believe Kenobi was a "pathological liar", but he's willing to mislead Ani, and later Luke, in order to accomplish his goals, which damages their respective relationships. (No, Obi-Wan, Padme showed herself to be completely trustworthy in TPM. And, no, you didn't tell the truth about Ani's fate on Mustafar.) Pretty much, Kenobi might've developed into another Qui-Gon, but outside events and attitudes diverted him onto a different, and ultimately incorrect, path.

    Qui-Gon was the best of the Jedi Order. Losing him was a blow that they never truly recovered from.
     
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  7. Dannik Jerriko

    Dannik Jerriko Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 12, 2017
    Mace is my favourite Jedi, but I do have a certain fondness for Qui-Gon. Qui-Gon was a poor fit for the higher echelons of the Jedi Order and he didn't appear to have much respect for power structures. He was also reckless and willing to take extreme risks (such as entering a child in a high speed race endorsed by gangsters).

    That said, Qui-Gon was an essentially decent man who cared deeply about others. He was committed to the Jedi Order and had a deep understanding of the living force.

    Qui-Gon was a natural mentor and belonged out in the field. If Maul hadn't given him the business with his lightsaber, there would have been no Darth Vader.
     
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  8. The One Above All

    The One Above All Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Apr 11, 2017
    I think Qui-Gon was planning to train Anakin, but knew he'd have to quit the Jedi Order to do so. As soon as he was finished training Obi-Wan within the restrictions of the Order, he'd leave it and start focusing on Anakin. But, alas, that never happened...
     
  9. Darth Arthurius

    Darth Arthurius Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Jan 29, 2016

    This part is where I disagree. I've kind of come to dislike Yoda and Obi-Wan as I've gotten older. Let me explain.
    Luke is presented, even as an adult, with a certain innocence and naivete that even Anakin doesn't possess. He's much less worldly than Leia, or even Anakin, were at the same age and thus more gullible. Obi-Wan and Yoda use this to their advantage and manipulate the hell out of him. They're literally using him as a means to an end. If Obi-Wan and Yoda had had it their way, Luke would've been trained to fight Vader, kill him and possibly the Emperor, while never knowing the truth about Vader. To me, that's messed up. They actively encourage Luke to MURDER his father, saying that it's the only way to become a Jedi. I mean look at the subtext of what they're saying in Jedi.

    "I can't kill my own father."
    "Than the Emperor has already won....You were our last hope."

    There's something almost Sith-like in that. There's something screwed up in that sort of emotional manipulation.
     
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  10. Alexrd

    Alexrd Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Anakin fell because of his own decisions and actions, not because of any Jedi. And Obi-Wan didn't fail anyone nor did he refuse to adopt any perceived belief that Qui-Gon had. They were both Jedi and they both followed the Jedi way. Anakin decided not to, and fell because of that.
     
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  11. Outsourced

    Outsourced Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2017
    I like Qui-gon, but I think Liam's performance in TPM is a bit... Weird? Its hard to describe. Like with having Samuel as Mace Windu, it feels like the actors can't really reach their full potential with the characters they're portraying.
     
  12. Skywalker Family

    Skywalker Family Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 15, 2017
    I liked him and thought his character was important. He learned how to return to the Force after death. He gets a lot of mixed reactions though.
    I wonder what it would have been like had he trained Anakin?
     
  13. Avnar

    Avnar Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2007
    I found him quite dry and the least interesting of the main Jedi we have had portrayed in the films... Way too serious.
     
  14. Kenneth Morgan

    Kenneth Morgan Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    May 27, 1999
    Yes, Anakin was ultimately responsible for his own actions, but the Jedi certainly didn't help matters.

    In AOTC, Obi-Wan seems very ill-mannered towards Ani. He's dismissive of his concerns and curt in his attitude. You get the impression that, if he didn't have so much respect for Qui-Gon, he'd have shipped Ani back to Tatooine on the first shuttle. And his remark about Padme ("She is a politician, and not to be trusted.") is not just a boldfaced lie, but a boldfaced insult. You don't calm your apprentice down and wisely counsel him by throwing slurs at someone who's supposedly a friend and ally. And threatening Ani with excommunication when Padme is endangered is not the way to get him to ease down and focus. No wonder Ani preferred the company of Palpatine, who seemed far more considerate.

    In ROTS, Obi-Wan is better. Years of fighting a war alongside Ani have bonded them closer, and Ani got a well-placed kick in the ego from Dooku in AOTC. But, still, Obi-Wan makes big mistakes. He must've been party to the decision to give Ani a powerless position on the Council, but neglects to warn him ahead of time, which would have headed off a big scene. And, when he asks Ani to illegally spy on Palpatine, he's clearly not comfortable with it (he passes the buck to the Council), but he still does it. When he speaks to Ani as a friend before leaving for Utapau, it's a step in the right direction, but things have already gone too far to stop. The Jedi are already running headlong into the trap Palpatine set, and an avoidable crisis is imminent.

    I still believe Qui-Gon could've headed off Ani's attitudes and impending crises, and, had Obi-Wan followed his master's example, he might've done it, too. But the latter followed the staid and overconfident example of the Council, rather than the more understanding, flexible and compassionate example of the righteous rebel Qui-Gon.
     
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  15. GauntGrandMoff

    GauntGrandMoff Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2016
    I believe that Anakin needed guidence and someone that would actually take serious consideration at the validity of his visions.

    Obi Wan was the closest to him and yet he (like everyone else) just feed him that speal about how things may or may not happen and that he shouldn't worry...

    Qui Gon didn't look at the force in the way the other Jedi did. He was more open minded. I just feel that if Anakin had come to him about his visions, Qui Gon would have heeded the warnings and acted accordingly. Maybe Shmi would have lived. If she'd had died anyways, Ginn would have been there to stay Anakins hand against the sand people reminding him of what he was (a Jedi).

    Its only after Anakin fell that Obi Wan finally reached out to his master for guidence....



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  16. Alexrd

    Alexrd Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    What validity? Wether the visions are/become true or not is irrelevant. He acted on fear and attachment and he shouldn't. They advised him to let go and not dwell on it and he didn't. Anakin is responsible for his own actions. Qui-Gon was the first to warn him that being a Jedi is not easy and that it would be a hard life. This false notion that Qui-Gon would pander to Anakin is not corroborated by the movies nor by the character itself.
     
  17. Kenneth Morgan

    Kenneth Morgan Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    May 27, 1999
    I'm not saying he would've pandered to him; I'm saying he would've been more flexible in his views and understanding of his situation. That's not pandering, that's mentoring. And it's better than, "Throw him in, hope he floats, and yell at him if he doesn't".

    And if Ani's fear and concern, born out of loving attachment, is of note, than so is the Jedi's apathy, born out of remote detachment. I still say Qui-Gon would've balanced the two: calm Ani down, but make sure an innocent isn't suffering.
     
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  18. GauntGrandMoff

    GauntGrandMoff Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2016
    The guy saw a vision of his mother being killed. I don't blame him for wanting to save her. Anakin did what he did and was indeed responsible I just feel that the Jedi were naive to think that someone with Anakins temperament would sit idle while his mother was in danger (Obi wan most of all). I don't believe Qui Gon would have.

    Qui Gon is literally yelling at Anakin to stop what he's doing (slaughtering the Raiders) but was constrained by the fact that he was a force ghost to take any significant action.

    Obi wan failed to truly understand Anakins fears in that way I believe he failed as a master and I don't feel that Quigon would have done the same.
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  19. The One Above All

    The One Above All Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Apr 11, 2017
    Qui-Gon died a hero, but if he had survived, he may very well have ended up making the same mistakes that Obi-Wan, Yoda, Mace and the others made.
     
  20. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Backpacking One Pack a Day Mod of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2005
    No. He is one of my fav Jedi, but not the top of the list.
     
  21. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    Yet that one line slogan is not letting Anakin or Shmi know that he'd have to relinquish all attachments, including to his mother for all time. Anakin even falsely believes that he'll be able to come back & free his mother. He seems to be unaware that the Jedi code forbids this type of action, or that kind of attachment. It was QG's responsibility to spell out all that becoming a Jedi entailed. Not just with that one vague comment. Therefore IMO he carries significant responsibility for Anakin's future troubles.

    I like Qui-Gon only in terms of Neeson's performance. On the page however he's a terrible character. He lies & cheats his way through the movie. The actor's charm masks the fact that his actions are quite poor throughout.
     
  22. Alexrd

    Alexrd Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    There's a difference between understanding his pain and desire to save his mother out of a vision due to his attachment to her, and supporting his decisions and actions out of fear and attachment. I not only don't support but blame him for the latter. For wanting to be a Jedi and not commiting to their ways.

    So the Jedi are to blame for trusting him. Got it...

    His fears were not misunderstood. He merely didn't support him acting on his fears and told him to discard it and let go, as he should.
     
  23. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2002
    He's not my personal favorite, but the character is one of the best in the series, Jedi or not. I like that he feels like an actual adult existing in that universe rather than just a delivery system for action movie dialogue. The subtle platonic chemistry between him and Shmi is some of my favorite character interaction in the entire series.
     
  24. Darth Weavile

    Darth Weavile Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Oct 10, 2017
    "Lies and cheats..." when? When he uses a mind trick on two immoral beings (Boss Nass and Watto)? The motivation clearly being to free two individuals (Jar Jar and Anakin). Jar Jar was to be killed over a minor offense, while Anakin was a 9-year-old slave. If anything, Qui-Gon was a hero.

    To answer the question, Qui-Gon is one of my favorite Jedi.
     
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  25. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    What was so immoral about Boss Nass?

    Jar Jar's "minor offense" was breaking exile - the whole point of exile is that you're killed or punished severely if you come back.


    It was the fact that Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan had pushed Jar Jar into breaking exile (with all the "That is the sound of 1000 terrible things coming this way") - that made Qui-Gon take responsibility for him, not any immorality on Boss Nass's part.

    Note that Qui-Gon does not mind trick Nass to get him to accept Jar Jar's life debt - what Qui-Gon does is mind trick him to get "speed far away" - the bongo - fast transport to the other side of the planet - that's the moment where we see him making the mind trick gesture:

    "Then (waves hand) speed us on our way"
    "Wesa speed you far away"

    No handwave during "He owes me what you call a life debt" by contrast.
     
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