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Rogue One Is Rogue One an 'Adult' Star Wars Film?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Anthology (Released Films)' started by Jid123Sheeve, Jan 3, 2017.

  1. moreorless12

    moreorless12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Yeah I think you outline the nature of the film very well there monk, taking a story which at the most basic level is pretty standard heroism in an action film but treating it in a more naturalistic and artful fashion.

    I know you weren't directly implying it but I would say is that I think along with the obvious action blockbusters Edwards influences are less something like Shawshank and more the likes of early Ridley Scott(most obviously Blade Runner), Kubrick(reusing the Gyorgy Ligeti chorale from 2001 during Godzilla a bit of a giveaway) and European arthouse drama in general like Kieslowski(cast Juliette Binoche in Godzilla as well I think a giveaway). Basically much of the drama is gotten across via actors non verbal performances and the way they are filmed, closeups, lighting, general atmosphere of the scene, again that early meeting on Yavin is an obvious example where the drama is most a series of reaction shots from Felicity Jones.

    Again I don't think this is THAT different from the OT, especially Empire Strikes Back that still very much had elements of new wave cinema to it. With those films of course your talking cinema that we've been exposed to for decades as well which I think helps to sell the drama.
     
    Gigoran Monk likes this.
  2. Gigoran Monk

    Gigoran Monk Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Dec 2, 2016
    I agree 100%. Edwards is borrowing from the more visually-oriented art house directors, not those who do dense interpersonal dramas (or as I like to call them, “filmed plays”). The characterizations in Kubrick’s films, for example, are quite economical. He prefers to let visuals, and subtle facial cues and interactions, tell the story. As a director, he's more of an observer than a participant. Rogue One is a lot like that. The characterization is very economical and arms-length, as in most Star Wars films. But there’s a visual artistry, and a naturalism to the acting, that elevates it.
     
  3. darthOB1

    darthOB1 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2000
    Are you saying there’s good acting in SW? :eek:
     
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  4. Jar Jar Skywalker

    Jar Jar Skywalker Jedi Youngling

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    Oct 18, 2017
    well it was grittier and similar to empire strikes back in darker tone. more mature but not really adult, if you get what i mean.
     
  5. moreorless12

    moreorless12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Which is I'm guessing a style many modern viewers are either unfamiliar with or do not expect in a modern blockbuster. Again I think people do underestimate how much of this style there actually was in ESB especially, the big issue I think is that film has decades to get its drama across with most people probably seeing it multiple times growing up before they can form an opinion about it. Today it seems a lot of opinions get set in stone after one cinema viewing.

    I would say the film isn't totally lacking in character complexity but it knows when to use it. The scene on the transport just after Eadu most obviously is so effective because its Jyn and Cassian having a justified pop at each others personal morals rather than it being one way traffic. Again I think that's ignored somewhat in a lot of peoples view that her character doesn't have the motivation to act the way she does afterwards, his critcisms of her previous self obsession do have an impact. Although that again perhaps is not something that goes down well with some audiences as you could argue modern blockbusters have become ever more self obsessed empowerment fantasys.
     
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  6. {Quantum/MIDI}

    {Quantum/MIDI} Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2015
    I do not agree to that. Kubricks films not only are specifically made a certain way(with no studio reducing his vision to half of what it was) he also takes a lot of time with them. I agree that it slightly unusual for a blockbuster, more so due to the ending but I think it's still trudging on the perticular side of average. Rogue One has the similar syndrome of going through the motions too qucikly without having a time to calm down and breath. Always running and always on rails both TFA and R1 have been, which I deem a fault.

    Mildly odd that I would criticize Gareth on this. All of the movies I've seen of his always take slowness as precedence over quick pace. Then again, it was slower in the original cut. And of course folks disliked it like they did with Blade Runner.
     
  7. Aroooo-Dion

    Aroooo-Dion Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Sep 27, 2017
    We have no way of knowing this.
     
  8. {Quantum/MIDI}

    {Quantum/MIDI} Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Dec 21, 2015
    Wasn't there a descriptive article on how R1 wasn't well received because it didn't feel like a SW movie and it was slow upon first viewing? Let me find it...
     
  9. moreorless12

    moreorless12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 4, 2016
    I did not of course say he was attempting to make a film similar to Kurbick but rather that he took some influence from him and others with a visually focused style whilst making a film that was still an action blockbuster.

    As far as being "on rails" goes Rogue One is obviously pushed more via its plot than the influences I listed but I would not class it as similar to TFA. That film for me was almost totally driven by a rapid plot in search of constant action/nostalgia/humour at the expense of building atmosphere and character depth. Honestly I found the PT whilst slower paced to also be generally poor character pieces, partly due to poor writing/acting but also that Lucas drowned the films in extraneous detail.

    I wouldn't say Rogue One is faultless, parts of the battle on Scarif do feel rather too plot focused for me(ironically the sections most loved by many who otherwise dislike it) but generally I do think it gives its characters a lot more room to breath. That its not "always running" taking its time to slow down with character focused scenes between its more action packed sections is I think an obvious strength of the film.
     
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  10. {Quantum/MIDI}

    {Quantum/MIDI} Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2015
    Why bring up the criticism of the PT when ANH is a good example of a more streamlined yet balanced pacing that Abrams and co were trying to go for? The prequels are phenomenal but they in general had slower pacing(ROTS and ANH are more so in the same boat). Since they are trying to make this as similar as possible to the OT(R1 has more of an excuse in certain places) ANH was slow in the first 45 minutes then started to gain momentum as the movie went on. R1 and TFA would have benefited from this as it was possible to put it on rails later in the movie.

    Yes I get it...The "room" you speak of feels more like a conveyer belt going from 6-10 speeds. That's what R1 is. Even with the smaller times the characters get; we don't explore them. Churrit and his partner? What about them? I remember them greatly but they didn't do much other than "deus ex" the force towards the end.

    I say the strengths lie in the action and visuals(which aren't that unique when comparing other sci-fi films).

    What trite considering 1-6 blended everything into a seemless harmony. Shame the music was so average..
     
  11. moreorless12

    moreorless12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Even ANH is I think actually a much slower paced more character focused film than a lot of analysis(often looking to cast it as a blueprint for the style of directors like Abrams) gives it credit for today. The first half of that film spends a great deal of time building its setting and characters and does feature a lot of slower paced dramatic scenes which do often depend on visuals to sell there drama, Luke staring at the binary sunset being the obvious example. ESB is I think even more obvious featuring a lot of slower more personal scenes thoughout, the kind of stuff I think Abrams would have cut away in favour of a faster pace and more action.

    The kind of scenes I'm talking about in Rogue One aren't just the big dramatic moments like Galens message or his death there segments like the scenes traveling between locations that take a much more personal focus. Even the plot itself feels more driven by character for me with the whole Eadu segment not really advancing the cause of getting the DS plans directly at all but rather being one which has an impact on the characters.

    The film does obviously focus more on its lead characters in Jyn and Cassian, Chirrut and Baze are ultimately supporting roles but I still think they get time for some depth to be added to them with several short character focused scenes and indeed the characters deaths obviously playing into the arc that has been developed of Chirrut having faith by Baze having lost it only to regain it.

    Personally I don't find 1-6 "blended into seemless harmony" at all but equally I also did not find TFA to be a successful return to the style of the originals many considered it to be.
     
    Sarge likes this.
  12. Count Zero

    Count Zero Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2014
    IMO, people make way too big a deal about the word "adult." And they use it in stupid context. Something showing a million boob and upskirt shots, for example, is pretty juvenile. I've seen angsty teenager movies described as "adult" for no other reason than the fact that they're angsty. A lot of bad slasher movies are "adult" because kids shouldn't be watching somebodies head getting split in half, but that still doesn't make the slasher genre "adult" just because of that. Akira is "adult," anime, as a whole, isn't.

    Adult movies deal with adult themes, and often wouldn't even interest a kid. Something being "adult" doesn't mean it's in any way "good."
     
  13. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    I would say that this scene was very adult. Violence like this would have frightened me as a child, and I certainly was very frightened of Vader when I first saw him on my television during 1995. But I was inspired by his redemption, of course, despite his crimes.

    This scene is intense, as we all know. But what makes it great is as follows: The Rebels slow him down. They honor what Jyn and her crew did. They get the plans to Leia. It's not easy to slow Vader down. Courage validates so much. Just think of it this way: The Jedi who fought and died against Vader were target practice to him, tools to prove his worthiness to his dark master. These Rebels slow him down without the Force.



    Launch.
     
  14. KamenSentaiMetalHero

    KamenSentaiMetalHero Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Dec 19, 2017
    What about AOTC?
     
  15. KamenSentaiMetalHero

    KamenSentaiMetalHero Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Dec 19, 2017
    Personally, I think it's more mature and complex but not exactly an "adult" film. Also, I don't think that TESB is as dark as everyone makes it out to be. It's pretty dark, sure, but their was still light-hearted moments and it didn't really feel depressing until the end. And one more thing, I don't like how people say the prequels were more kid-friendly. sure TPM was pretty "kiddie" but the other two were pretty dark, especially ROTS. I think Star Wars is for everyone and I wouldn't call it for kids. Oh, and even TPM has its fair share of serious moments despite not being a serious film, ie Qui-Gon's death.
     
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  16. darkmasteroflight

    darkmasteroflight Jedi Youngling

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    Feb 13, 2018
    I wouldn't say so at all. While it is certainly marketed to be more adult themed it still doesn't land squarely into that category to me.
     
  17. Deliveranze

    Deliveranze Force Ghost star 6

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    Nov 28, 2015
    AOTC is pretty intense tbh. Movie opens up with a bombing, centipedes, Zam Wessel's shape shift (this scared me for years), drug reference (deathsticks), Tusken Raiders getting beheaded, Anakin cutting up Geonosians to reveal green insides, and Jango Fett's headless corpse collapsing.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
  18. Matty20172018

    Matty20172018 Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Aug 20, 2017
    Rogue One is not as disturbing as ROTS. It isn't. ROTS has burning man, killing of kids and innocents in cold blood, evil Palpatine turning into a scary clown-demon, a pregnnt mother who gives birth and then just dies because she has lost hope (her husband just basically disowned her and superficially murdered her), the death of the separatist leaders is strangely disturbing in a darkly hilarious but equally as terrifying way; The enemies of the prequels are effectively murdered by the enemy of the original films. How weird!

    Episode III is like two movies in one. The victory over Coruscant and the saviour of the Chancellor was all was happy feels.... it all quickly goes to pots once Palpatine has that fateful conversation in the podium thing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2018
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  19. Gamma626

    Gamma626 Jedi Master star 4

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    May 6, 2014
    It's a mature film, from tone to story. It's a movie that doesn't treat the audience as children. They don't have characters monologue about the themes of the movie to really make sure you understand it. It doesn't inject humor every five minutes to keep your attention. And it doesn't relegate everyone to plot armor for the sake of everyone leaving the theater happy. In that regard, yes, it's quite adult.

    However, it's still made for people of all ages to enjoy. That's what I admire so much about R1. It's exactly the type of film I want to see from Star Wars moving forward. One that embraces and loves the past of the franchise, adds something new, and does so while making a great film.
     
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  20. MotivateR5D4

    MotivateR5D4 Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 20, 2015
    In particular, I've always found the introductory Jedha scene where Bodhi is brought as a prisoner to Two Tubes and his team to be very reminiscent of how a high value target exchange could take place in the deserts of the middle east between soldiers or mercenaries. It really has that feel of like a special forces unit secretively transporting this prisoner outside of where the main city is located. For example, look up the exchange of Bowe Berghdal from his Taliban captures to those special forces operatives. And then watch the scene introducing Bodhi as a prisoner. They look very similar. So to have that level of realness and grit in a Star Wars movie I think puts it on a level that you don't find anywhere else in the saga.
     
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  21. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Force Ghost star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    Does Rogue One have themes that not every age group can handle? Sure it does. It has terrorism and not morally perfect good guys. However is it an adult film? No. It still can get through to it’s intended audience of teenagers and young adults. Star Wars should always be as excessble as possible.
     
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  22. jamminjedi23

    jamminjedi23 Jedi Master star 5

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    Feb 19, 2015
    I don't think any Star Wars film could really be categorized as an adult film. Some are just a little darker in tone than others are. Though Rogue One is probably one of the darker Star Wars movies I still think anyone over the age of 9 or 10 would be completely fine watching it. Rogue One probably just wouldn't be a movie you would want to show to a kid 5 or younger. Where as many of the other Star Wars movies are perfectly fine to show to a 5 or 6 year old.
     
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  23. Sith Lord 2015

    Sith Lord 2015 Jedi Knight star 3

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    Oct 30, 2015
    None. It would have been ANH except for that scene with the skeletons. I was 12 and had no problems, but can see how it could be pretty disturbing for younger kids.
     
  24. Adrian the Cool

    Adrian the Cool Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    In my opinion, all Star Wars films also target a younger audience. They're for everybody, like a lot of today's cartoon shows.

    Well, except the scene in EP3 with Vader's "accident" on Mustafar, that has horror movie quality. I'm sorry for those six-year-olds which went to cinema with their parents back then.^^