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Rogue One Is Rogue One an 'Adult' Star Wars Film?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Anthology (Released Films)' started by Jid123Sheeve, Jan 3, 2017.

  1. Gigoran Monk

    Gigoran Monk Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Dec 2, 2016
    Agreed 100%. Talking down to children is the worst thing about a lot of entertainment aimed at them.
    Avnar and Blue 5 like this.
  2. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Malleus Maleficarum star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Aug 19, 2003
    The first film to truly grab me, aside from SW, was The Day The Earth Stood Still. Not only does it not pander to children, its message clearly fails to resonate with half the population of the world's adults. :p
  3. Morarwen

    Morarwen Jedi Youngling

    May 12, 2017
    My 8-year-old loved R1; he was distressed at all the character death, but he's like that over any character dying in any story. After we got the DVD and started reading the (junior) novel, he's come up with some neat insights about it. It's definitely top of the 'meat for adult viewers' SW list (and my personal favourite, bar none; it's got under my skin like no story I can remember in many years).
    Gigoran Monk likes this.
  4. Jim Smith

    Jim Smith Jedi Padawan star 1

    Apr 5, 2017

    What do you mean by The Day The Earth Stood Still's message not resonating with half the earth's population?
  5. GoJohnnyGo

    GoJohnnyGo Jedi Knight star 1

    Nov 19, 2012

    I think had Jar Jar played a role in this, it would be more credible as an adult oriented movie.
  6. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 Porg of New Films & Fan Films star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Sep 20, 2002
    I would have loved Jar Jar in Rogue One! I'm not kidding - seeing an older Jar Jar engaged in the Rebellion would have been awesome.
  7. Blue 5

    Blue 5 Jedi Knight star 3

    Jan 6, 2017
    I think character depth and narrative nuance is more easily comprehended by adults, but children can absolutely love Rogue One. Many kids love it just as much as adult fans.
    Gigoran Monk and Darth__Lobot like this.
  8. AndyLGR

    AndyLGR Jedi Master star 4

    May 1, 2014
    No more adult than Empire IMO.
  9. Darth Nave

    Darth Nave Jedi Knight star 4

    Dec 27, 2015
    Personally, I see it as tonally in-line with the OT. Mainly, the humor in the film was more like the subtle, dry OT humor rather than the more broad humor of TFA (a film which I do really like). And it never devolved into shoegazing displays of hipster camp that you see in Marvel movies and many modern blockbusters where they purposely undermine the gravitas of the situation because certain people (mainly adults) may be embarrassed to watch a sci-fi/fantasy blockbuster that takes itself seriously. Basically, what moreorless12 described. I think that this is what threw some critics off of the movie; that its tone is drastically different than the typical blockbuster you see these days that's constantly firing off more winks and nods to the audience that a ****ing methadone clinic. I'm really getting tired of that attitude and am glad that RO was such a success, because it possibly means that we'll get more films like it that have the audacity to not undermine their setting like that.
    Dr_Cthulhu and Gigoran Monk like this.
  10. moreorless12

    moreorless12 Jedi Master star 4

    Jan 4, 2016
    Honestly Nave I find TFA one of the worst offenders, with Marvel I think the style is generally more of a fit plus your dealing with the likes of Downey Jnr, Chris Evans Scarlet Johansen, etc who have the acting chops/charisma to sell it and still have some pathos even in a setting with a good deal of camp. TFA to me neither has the setting suited to this style nore the cast to pull it off, I do think they have potential to work in a more serious setting(as hopefully TLJ is) but here for me the comedy often seems forced and the drama overplayed.

    Really though my problem isn't with the style itself, I enjoy most of the big Marvel films well enough, the problem is I think that this seems to have become all that's acceptable to a lot of people. Yeah poking a bit of fun at genre films can be entertaining but ultimately its taking things seriously that made a lot of these films loved enough for people to want to poke fun at. It just seems a lot of the criticism of things like "stilted dialog" has moved on from stuff that was actually poorly done like say Keanu in the Matrix sequels onto just anything that takes itself seriously.

    That's why its very gratifying to see Rogue One do so well at the box office and with many critics, personally for example I thought the recent Ghost in the Shell film was like say Tron Legacy in the past was a very well made action film with some intelligence to it and didn't get its due because it wasn't full of one liners and things exploding every 23.4 seconds.
    CT-867-5309, Darth Nave and Blue 5 like this.
  11. Caisa Rhodin

    Caisa Rhodin Jedi Youngling

    Jan 27, 2017
    Yeah, it does seem to be targeted at a more mature audience. But seriously, I first thought this thread was referring to nudity or something between that line.
  12. jarjarbinksthegungan

    jarjarbinksthegungan Jedi Youngling star 1

    Oct 16, 2017
    I don't think Rogue One is an 'adult' film. All the movies deal with things such as violence and death.
  13. Outsourced

    Outsourced Jedi Knight star 4

    Apr 10, 2017
    Maturity has less to do with violence and death, and more to do with ambiguity, morality, and the nature of what we consider heroes and villains. Yeah, tons of people die in Star Wars, but we don't often see 'The Good Guys' killing innocents for the greater good, the nature of extremist movements explored, and what it means to actually fight for a cause regardless of the consequences.
  14. QsAssistant

    QsAssistant Jedi Knight star 2

    Apr 13, 2011
    I would honestly consider Revenge of the Sith more adult than Rogue One. ROTS has multiple hero deaths, betrayal, heroes going into hiding, one of our main heroes joining the Dark Side, and the villains win. It doesn't really end on a happy note, whereas RO ends on hope.
  15. Gigoran Monk

    Gigoran Monk Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Dec 2, 2016
    Unhappiness does not equal "adult." It's the complexity of the world, themes, moral/ ethical questions and characters that determine that. In this context, ROTS is still far less adult than RO, in my view. It's told in a the more simplistic mythic mode, while RO is told in the more complex mimetic or historical mold. That's not a value judgment, mind you. I love both approaches. It's just an observation about the style of storytelling.
  16. Takes One to Rogue One

    Takes One to Rogue One Jedi Padawan

    Jan 4, 2017
    I'd argue the birth of Luke and Leia and ending with the binary sunset ends the movie on a hopeful note.

    Both III and RO had to lead into A New Hope, so I find both of their endings rather optimistic for things to come.
  17. ObiWanKnowsMe

    ObiWanKnowsMe Jedi Master star 4

    Sep 7, 2015
    R1 is kinda dark .. but nah its a film for all ages I think.
    ROTS is a film that's definitely more 16ish and over
  18. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Force Ghost star 5

    Aug 9, 2002
    I didn't think it was particularly adult, but then again that word means different things to different people. In SW terms I think it means the characters feel like they have real emotions and real lives beyond the SF action they're caught up in. Kind of reminds me of something I once read about the New Wave movement in SF, where one of the writers lumped in that category explained they were trying to write SF from the perspective of what happens in a couple's home than in a spaceship. Personally I think a truly "adult" Star Wars movie would need much more emphasis on the type of character interaction that on first glance is infinitely more mundane than mutual, hectic understanding that this or that super weapon needs to be destroyed.

    And lest someone think I am being so unfair and mean to poor old Rogue One, I should also add that I'm not sure we need a truly adult SW film. Ewoks remain one of my favorite things about Star Wars, after all.
    Avnar and Sarge like this.
  19. darthOB1

    darthOB1 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Mar 22, 2000
    This was star wars period. It was a dark version for sure but they, the movies, have always been created for both!
    Avnar likes this.
  20. Avnar

    Avnar Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Sep 20, 2007
    Interesting... I also don't hate the ewoks (and love Caravan of Courage [face_blush]) I agree, I don't think we need a truly adult SW film. I don't like silly though!

    I think ROTJ's tone works for me best... A little bit stupid a little bit serious etc
  21. moreorless12

    moreorless12 Jedi Master star 4

    Jan 4, 2016
    Honestly I would say that's a pretty good description of what we actually got an why some disliked the film. For much of its runtime I don't think its really focused on a "hectic understanding that the DS needs to be destroyed" and instead plays out the more personal drama of the characters, often in a rather subtle fashion. Even something like the opening meeting at the Rebel base ends up more focused on that, we had the details of the plot outlined to us but dramatically the focus is clearly on how Jyn is reacting to this(although again often via more subtle facial expression).

    The setting is of course still rather larger than life with a lot of action involved and honestly so is the nature of the drama even if its smaller scale but its a lot more subtly played than is typical of modern Hollywood blockbusters although as I said previously I don't think so different to the originals as many claim.
    Sarge and Gigoran Monk like this.
  22. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Force Ghost star 5

    Aug 9, 2002

    Fair enough, but I disagree completely. I think it's the least "personal" feeling of them all.
  23. Gigoran Monk

    Gigoran Monk Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Dec 2, 2016
    I was pleasantly surprised at how the "steal the Death Star plans" plot didn't really even start until halfway through the film. The first half was about establishing the characters of Jyn and Cassian, their relationship with each other, Jyn's relationship with her father, and the resolution of those relationships/ conflicts at the conclusion of Act 2 (which essentially ended with the failure of the Rebel Council to act). It was only in Act 3, when Cassian and Jyn resolved their differences, that the film moved into the plot-driven narrative of most Star Wars films. That was a brave choice, and I think, one of the reasons some Star Wars fans have difficulty with the first two acts.
  24. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Force Ghost star 5

    Aug 9, 2002
    Sadly I didn't find those relationships very interesting. I didn't really get a sense of those characters being "real" people beyond their immediate mission and action heroics with the rebellion, and if anything tying an independent, grown woman Jyn so closely to desperate need of her father felt the very opposite of adult. Cassian was bland action dude. Did he mention losing his family or something? See every action movie ever, pretty much. Can't speak for others, but the reason the film struggled to capture my attention was not because it was too focused on mature characterization.
  25. Gigoran Monk

    Gigoran Monk Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Dec 2, 2016
    I don't think anyone is making the case that it was "mature" characterization in the vein of more character-driven dramas, like, say, Shawshank Redemption or Casablanca. I think most are simply saying that the characterization was more mature than in other Star Wars films - told in the mimetic rather than the mythic mode. Which I personally find almost undeniable, particularly in regards to Jyn, who was clearly motivated by abandonment and betrayal initially, and finally by a puncturing of that feeling of betrayal after her encounter with her father (and Saw) proves that unfounded.

    I think Rogue One is particularly mature (to define my terms again, by mature I mean "characterization in the mimetic mode") when compared to TFA. In TFA, many of the motivations for the forward momentum of characters amount to things like "I need to get this droid to a base," "this old alien lady I never met told me that my family isn't coming back," and "I suddenly don't like doing what a stormtrooper does."

    But generally, you're right. This isn't Jane Austen. It's still a heroic story. It just adopts some characteristics of less heroic stories, and personally, I find that this hybrid approach works really well.
    moreorless12 likes this.