ST Is Snoke Holding Kylo Back

We know Kylo Ren is a Skywalker, and all of the one's we've met so far have been powerful in the force. Kylo has his moments in TFA, but overall his fear of not measuring up to Vader's standard seems justified.

What if Kylo isn't less powerful than his grandfather though? What if Kylo is actually more powerful, but is being purposefully held back by Snoke to control him?

We know Snoke has more to teach Kylo, but what if the things he's already taught him are intentionally wrong? Snoke needs to control Kylo somehow, he needs to keep him convinced that his connection to the light is making him weak. So maybe Snoke has been teaching Kylo in a way that makes it harder to use the force. He knows Kylo is afraid that he isn't that powerful, so by intentionally stunting his abilities, he makes that fear real, and drives him further to the dark side. Then when he sees that Kylo has fully committed to the dark, he teaches him how to actually use the force, so Kylo is forever convinced it was the light that made him weak.

Thoughts?

 

Maybe Snoke had fully trained an apprentice in the past and it turned out to badly for him, so he has been holding back on training Kylo out of fear of that repeating.

 

I think this is kind of intentionally left ambiguous. Kylo is in his prime age, so... why isn't his training complete...? Maybe he started late? Too many questions!

I've mentioned it before in the Adam Driver thread, Han says to him, "Snoke only wants you for your powers" is that meant to reference Kylo being exceptionally gifted? Or just the force in general? I got the impression it was because he had shown the same amount of aptitude with the force as Anakin, in the good ways and the bad.

 

Pretty sure his grandfather never met him

 

Definitely.

 

Definitely an interesting theory, but to me it just seems like his training is incomplete (which we know is true). I can't help but feel like he either excelled as Luke's student or was rebellious enough to not want to listen to him (which would explain why Kylo isn't necessarily incredibly strong right now). Maybe a little bit of both. He also probably hasn't properly fought anyone lightsaber-on-lightsaber in YEARS, so that'd make sense why he's a little rusty.

Then again, he did slaughter many of Luke's students. But that was with the help of the other Knight of Ren, right? He may have also just felt more powerful by acting from his emotional state or something.

I think seeing Kylo's full potential would be super cool, though!

 

I don't think Snoke is holding him back. I think Kylo is holding himself back and Snoke is reacting accordingly.

 

It’s worse. He’s overly critical.
He never listens. He doesn’t understand.
It’s not fair!

 

Does Ben get to throw his helmet during another tantrum?

 

His helmet turned into a star.

 

Yes. Snoke is undoubtedly holding Kylo back. But I feel it's not because he is using it as a training method but rather because he doesn't want any rivals. As Han says to Kylo, "Snoke is using you for your power. When he gets what he wants, he'll crush you--you know it's true." Snoke has no plans to rule with Kylo as Palpatine did with Vader, he's merely using him as a powerful agent.

But I think there is a bigger reason he keeps Kylo around, and that's because Kylo is his ace in the hole. If Luke were to return then Snoke has a "Skywalker" of his own to use against him. At the end of the film the Resistance has found Luke, Rey has accepted her destiny, and the Force has awoken. I don't think it's a coincidence that Snoke decides to finally finish Kylo's training. He needs an incredibly powerful agent of his own to use against Luke (and Rey) and Kylo has that potential; it's time to play that ace.

 

I think the real question here is what does Snoke want? Everyone is assuming he has political motivations and is Sith-like, but he talks a lot about balance in the book. It could be Kylo is in new territory and everyone is figuring it out as they go. Or that Kylo is going to get a special set of powers because of his ability to move between dark and light force powers. Making him purely dark might not be Snoke's goal.

IMO, Kylo is a different kind of force user than Jedi and Sith, and may end up in a different order with different powers before this trilogy is over.

 

Kylo Ren: IT'S ALL SNOKE'S FAULT! HE'S HOLDING ME BACK!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I really hope so... because as it stands I see little to no difference between the Sith and KOR and the Vader/Emperor dynamic... and the Vader/Emperor dynamic is infinitely more interesting.

 

I think he hasn't trained him for 2 reasons: 1) There's currently no Jedi other than Luke, so Kylo is already strong enough to handle any problems. 2) Snoke is looking out for his own neck.

 

Snoke's grip on Kylo is definitley similar to Palpatine's on young anakin. Except, is it just me or is kylo not really (barely, if any) leaning towards the light when anakin showed more tendencies to doubt what palpatine wanted him to go through? But its probably because anakin had more training as a jedi before he turned.. and it seems like kylo didnt have much of a choice after Snoke grabbed him.

 

My impression is that Snoke has tried to be mostly hands-off, letting Kylo discover and figure some things out for himself, giving him a good amount of space to play in, more freedom than the light side. Snoke may have been giving him just hints, pieces of the dark side, enough to keep it attractive. He refers to killing Han as a "test". Kylo succeeds, but isn't really stronger for it, and fails to deliver Rey, so Snoke has to step in.

 

I suspect Snoke is a former Inquisitor so whatever he's had and can provide is limited to what he's been able to scrounge or salvage.
If he is a disfigured Grand Inquisitor who survived the first season of Star wars Rebels then he was in a position to know all about Vader and inevitably realise who Luke was.
Keeping his original identity is the problem, surely Leia would have double checked so if he was a member of the Inquisitors then Imperial Security went to great lengths to hide his identity!
Kylo is demonstrably very dangerous I suspect he repaired his lightsaber from one of Snoke's fallen foes and given what I've seen so far suggests he imposed those same limits on the Inquisitors who replaced him!
The latest trailer indicates a third Inquisitor but none as varied as those suggested in FFG's F & D system, could Snoke be linked to the Old Master?
And yes he is definitely playing Kylo, I suspect he's trying to cement a rivalry with Hux and Phasma I'm hoping that backfires on Snoke!

 

Yeah I'm completely in this camp. The way he told Ren to bring him the Scavenger rather than guiding him to get the map on his own is I think ample evidence Han is absolutely right.

For that reason i think it would be better for Luke to be the one to kill Snoke.

 

This is pure speculation, but could Snoke and Luke have fought in the past? The script notes Snoke's fear (or something along those lines) at the possibility of Luke's return. I thought the fact he was fearful was interesting. On the other hand, I was also under the impression that Snoke's physical damage is very old so he would have been too weak to directly fight Luke so recently.

It looks like Snoke is manipulating Kylo to kill all the Jedi for him.

 

Good question, but we know it's Kylo who wants to find Luke, Snoke is okay with Luke simply remaining hidden. It's odd thing that he does not fear Luke coming out of hiding, he only fears the Resistance finding him.

[edit] Though unlikely, Snoke could be playing Kylo against Hux, as Hux is the one who says snoke wants the map destroyed more than he wants the map itself.

 

You're right, how could I forget the whole 'plan to use the weapon to destroy the resistance so they never find Luke.' It's the main plotline at the end.

 

I'm referring the earlier scene where Hux & Ren are debating the skills of the stormtroopers in retrieving the droid before Poe & Finn do.

 

Yes it was clear Snoke had not completed Kylo's training until he felt certain Kylo would not repeat Vader's "mistake'. Where Vader failed (not killing Luke), Kylo succeeded (killing Han). At least in Snoke's way of thinking. That and the fact Snoke prefers to keep ultimate power for himself. Now with Rey and Luke in the picture he needs a fully trained Kylo though.

 

Okay, I see what you're saying, where Hux told Kylo to not let his personal motives/goals get in the way.