Saga Is Star Wars more liberal or conservative?

Trade unions and trade regulations generally aren't associated with the right wing.

The Empire is in its essence primarily a stand-in for any kind of authoritarian government. That includes Soviet Russia just as much as it does Nazi Germany. Hell, listen to the ROTJ commentary, Lucas explicitly states that the military honor guard greeting the Emperor upon his arrival on the Death Star draws on imagery from the Soviet Union.

 

Trade unions and trade regulations were during the Republic era, not the Empire.

And Lucas drew on authoritarian imagery in general, so no help for your argument there. His first use of such imagery was drawn directly from Nazi propaganda films (the throne room scene, ironically used her by the Rebellion).

 

Lando Calrissian is explicitly hiding out from a trade union called the Mining Guild:


LANDO So you see, since we're a small
operation, we don't fall into
the... uh... jurisdiction of the
Empire.

LEIA So you're part of the mining
guild then?

LANDO No, not actually. Our operation
is small enough not to be noticed...
which is advantageous for everybody
since our customers are anxious
to avoid attracting attention to
themselves.

However, I seem to have misremembered, and despite what I believe the EU says about it, the movie seems to imply that the Mining Guild is a separate entity from the Empire. So point there, perhaps. Though logic would dictate (as the EU seems to have realized) that the Mining Guild likely wouldn't be able to exist in the galaxy were it not under some sort of agreement with the Empire.

But, regardless, yes, Lucas drew on authoritarian imagery in general for the Empire. That's exactly what I said. As per Lucas himself, that includes imagery from regimes such as the Soviet Union, which was certainly not a right-wing government. This does not preclude the obvious fact that the Empire also drew heavily on imagery from right-wing authoritarian governments like the Nazi regime. What exactly are you disagreeing with?

 

I would say liberal - George has never been shy about admitting that he himself is not a fan of the more wealthy people who make up the conservative class in America.

 

I think the rebellion are more libertarian and the empire are authoritarian statists. The separatists are crony capitalists. The jedi are some kind of buddhist monks.

That should be pretty obvious.

 

The empire is authoritarian period. They are space Nazis. And contrary to widely held beliefs, the Nazis are not on the far right but they certainly are authoritarian. For reference:



So the empire would be at the north end of this chart. I'm not sure how collectivists vs free market they are so hard to say if they are left or right economically. The rebellion would be on the bottom half of the chart.

 

Here are some of the interpretations I've heard - not all mutually exclusive.

1) The "anti-American" (or at least anti-US-war-machine) interpretation. Lucas was at one point planning to direct "Apocalypse Now". ANH can be interpreted as the story of rebels (the Vietnamese) resisting the US (the Empire). I've also heard the jungles of ROTJ and peasant society of the Ewoks compared to the Vietnam of the 1960s-70s. The idea of the Emperor is said to have been partly inspired by Nixon.
2) The anti-fascist interpretation. The Imperial uniforms, the term "Moff" (from a Dutch word for "Nazi"), the term "stormtrooper". The prequels portray a democratic republic giving way to a dictatorship. Like the Nazis, the Chancellor creates pretexts for extending his power. Like many regimes in history, he claims the need for emergency powers. The Naboo countryside is reminiscent of the Austrian landscape depicted in the Sound of Music. Darth Sidious's collaborators in the Trade Federation are thought by some to be modelled on the Japanese, which could be interpreted as a WWII reference.
Combining 1 and 2 there is possibly a message against imperialism in general (in the OT all the Imperials except Vader are British-accented, and the rebels are mostly American-accented; in American culture Britain is associated with the imperialism that the American republic rebelled against) and against dictatorship in general (including semi-dictatorial emergency powers sought in times of war, etc).
3) The anti-Communist interpretation. I haven't seen any evidence this was the authorial intent, and if it was then it was probably as part of a general anti-dictatorship message rather than a specifically pro-US one. But President Reagan may have been deliberately referencing Star Wars when he referred to the Soviet Union as "the evil Empire". The US missile defence programme commenced under Reagan was also nicknamed "Star Wars". And some commentators find the Manichean good-v-evil approach of the OT reminiscent of the way that the Cold War was viewed in US popular culture in the 50s and to some extent later decades.
4) The "broken family" theory. It's been suggested that the father-and-son theme is part of a 1980s moral panic about absent fathers. I am not sure if this fits because Luke clearly reaches adulthood as a fine upstanding citizen and only meets his father after that.
5) ANH bar scene: the anti-droid prejudice is probably an oblique reference to racial prejudices in 1970s America.

 

I wouldn't say the rebellion would be in the bottom half. They're certainly less authoritarian than the Empire, but a galactic senate / New Republic isn't exactly liberatarianism / anarchy.

 

Good point. And neither the Republic nor the Empire are collectivists/communists. Evidence of this is at there is a monetary system. AOTC: "Do you want to buy some death sticks?" And in ANH Han gives the bartender money after making a "mess".

So most likely the Empire are exactly where the Nazis are on the political compass. Center-Authoritarian. And I'd assume the Republic was somewhere in the middle of the chart.

 

I think Alderaan was fairly communist, but that obviously wasn't on a galactic scale.

 

It's a little vague to me how exactly the Empire is Oppressive, apart from being undemocratic. Which, yeah, is a bit oppressive.

But they aren't oppressing anyone in particular. They aren't rounding up Jews, or invading neighbouring Galaxies. Killing the Jedi and suppressing the surrounding religion? Is it Religious Oppression?

Is Sideous trying to impose a Dark Side philosophy on the Galaxy? Changing the content of textbooks in the schools?

Some folk don't like the imposition of a "racist" agenda on the Empire and First Order. But maybe it needs something like that. Something solid to hate.

Ramblings. Sorry.

 

In the Dark Lord books the Empire started a war on the Wookie home world when there wasn't any legit reason to. They did it so they could capture 200,000 Wookies and force them to start building the Death Star. They needed skilled laborers. Anyway, whether this example is canon or not, I thought that this kind of thing is not uncommon. I don't know how this isn't oppressive. Or in Bloodline, one character grew up on some mining world. His parents died early of some lung ailment "all because Darth Vader didn't think they were working hard enough." These are the kinds of things I imagined anyway from the OT.

 

For most of them, it all depends on your certain point of view...admittedly, the politics of the prequels are much moreLeftist than anything else, namely with how most of the antagonists belong to big corporations and a couple are named after Republican politicians. A few Disney haters say that The Force Awakens is very Leftist because it has a strong female lead who is good at too many things too quickly and has generally unaddressed flaws, but such people want to go home and rethink their lives. A strong female character who is driven by so-so writing does not equate to Leftist, it just equates to a strong female character who is driven by so-so writing.

Surprisingly or not, by all reliable accounts, the first interpretation is a correct one, the Empire was supposed to represent what George Lucas thought the USA could eventually become in the future.

 

I heard once that American 'Conservatives' believe in upholding and respecting a glorious past, whilst 'Liberals' look forward to a future which redeems the past and fulfils the ideals of what America is supposed to stand for: freedom and justice for all. Taking that view, Star Wars starts off as Conservative, looking back to the great Jedi Knights of Old in ANH, and then with the rest of the Saga takes a more liberal bent saying 'the Republic actually wasn't all that great, we need something better, something that a Jedi should actually be'. So . . . it moves? It's both? If that makes any sense at all.

 

So from that point of view Obi-wan would be the conservative by the time of ANH and Luke the liberal.

Interesting thing is that the conservative tells the liberal that he "must do what he feels is right, of course" (ANH) only to discourage him later (ESB) when he is actually about to do what he feels is right.

BEN It is you and your abilities the
Emperor wants. that is why your
friends are made to suffer.

LUKE And that is why I have to go.

BEN Luke, I don't want to lose you to
the Emperor the way I lost Vader.

 

There is a deleted scene from ANH were Biggs warns Luke that the Empire is nationalizing trade in the core systems. That soon they would even take over Owen's farm, and that everyone would be tenants to the Empire. This is supported by TPM where the Republic (which morphed into the Empire) was restricting and controlling trade through Taxes, and how several megacorporations where wiped out by the end of the Clone Wars. So I would say the Empire would be very collectivist to consolidate more power which fits Palp's MO along with swiping away the senate.

 

As a conservative, I would hope that there were not any clear right-wing vs left-wing analogies present, as that would divide the fan base in unproductive ways.

I personally think that star wars represents a struggle of authoritarian vs libertarian. Worshiping power vs cherishing liberty.

These two scenes from the prequels is what I base my argument around the authoritarian vs libertarian divide:

(Padme: "so this is how liberty dies...thunderous applause) - ROTS
(From the Clone Wars show; Padme giving a populist-like/Libertarian-ish speech)
(Deleted scene from AOTC...start at 0:00 and end at like 2:00. This is Padme giving her speech against a clone army after she was nearly assassinated)

There's more clips I'm sure that could be used to back up this divide. I'm sure there are clips that will also disprove my opinions. That's whats great about Star Wars and many other similar types of franchises. It's up for interpretation.

 

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Not even close. We Conservatives found that it is good to change.

It's the damn left who can't keeps stuff in the past. Racism wouldn't be a big issue today. But the left makes it about race in a arguement when it shouldn't be.

We don't hate Black, Hispanic, Jewish, asian and muslim. It's news like CNN and MsMB that lies to people about us and paint us the bad guys.

There are black, gay, hispanic and Native American conservatives.

The Left have been repsonable for all the racist **** in the past like the KKK and slaverly.

They just lie to you about it.

Conservatives do want to move on, but don't want people to forgot things like religion, happy families.

The left keeps bringing sexes and racism back it to things. They don't want to move on. They want people to be fuel on stuff that happen in the past, so they can vote for them.

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Ok not gonna get into argument about whose side am on as politics in UK work differently to US ( and our parties don’t match up exactly with yours in US) but I always thought in Star Wars the empire /first order were political right and resistance/rebellion were political left . And no one wants to meet in the middle which surely would be the answer to the conflicts ie a bit of compromise on both sides . Then again we wouldn’t have stars wars if it was all ok . Will be interesting to see what Kylo Ren does as leader whether we’ll see a new type of government and leadership never seen before .

 

The Empire is an authoritarian, hierarchical regime which values order and conformity above all else. The Rebellion is an individualistic, multicultural movement which seeks to re-institute representative democracy. George Lucas himself is well-known to be a liberal democrat and to have based the bad guys in his films on various Republican politicians. Chancellor Valorum, the virtuous politician brought down by "baseless accusations," has been noted by more than a few as a fairly transparent analogue of Bill Clinton, someone whose treatment by his political opponents Lucas had bemoaned in interviews in the years leading up to the release of Episode I.

Those are the facts; make of them what you will.

 

The only good response to weapon's grade ********.