CT Is Tarkin the "Darth Maul" of the OT?

IMO Tarkin was killed off early. (Granted it was unsure if ANH was going to be successful, and a villain needed to die.) But think about it, both are great villians with vastly different abilities and methods. Botth of them get replaced with other villians because of their premature deaths. Grevious for Maul, and Palpatine for Tarkin.

What do you all think?

 

Looking at it in the context of the overall saga, I don't really think so. Maul, like Dooku and Grevious, was really more of a stepping stone leading up to Vader. When we get to ANH and we meet Tarkin, I think he's actually meant to represent the ethos of rbe Empire itself, to establish the Empire as a credible threat. So he serves his purpose entirely in ANH, because in ESB and ROTJ he would have almost seemed redundant next to Vader and Palpatine. But I don't think Tarkin was a stepping stone towards Palpatine. The Emperor already existed in ANH, so if George had wanted him in the movie he would have been in the movie.

 

First, I disagree a 'villain' had to die. Secondly I concur it was done way early. Tarkin had a lot of potential and was wasted.

Unlike it appears many here Cushy doesn't hold death is the only option to be meted out to those that err even in perceived major ways. I think it is too easily dealt upon characters as an easy way out so the hard work of reforming and forgiveness can be skipped. Not cool.

 

I agree. I believe that people overlook Tarkin's importance to the story. I also think that after ANH the Empire's overall role is undermined in ESB and ROTJ. Its just the military and Vader/Sidious. I actually like a little politics in film. This is one of the complaints against the PT that I find ridiculous. War involves a lot of strategy and politics. Not just lovable Mary-sues, and a big-bad that is visually unsettling. That is why I prefer ANH's Tarkin, Vader, and the Empire over TESB and ROTJ's stereotypical portrayal of villians. (Not that ESB and ROTJ are bad or that the PT is perfect, I just like some sociological depth.)

 

I prefer depth to characters and story as well unfortunately is too often deemed 'unneeded' for the misguided ones by both creatives and consumers which is a great loss but unsurprising. It seems many want stories to be simple and war is anything but which creates complications.

 

I'm pretty sure the entire character of the Emperor had not been conceived when ANH was filmed.

 

The specifics of his character hadn't been determined, but he was there behind the scenes in ANH. My point is that there's nothing to suggest that the Emperor was a "replacement" for Tarkin in ESB and ROTJ.

 

Tarkin isn't Maul, Tarkin is Tarkin.

I feel, in the PT, the villians are all just a component to Vader. Maul is the fury, the speed and youth. Dooku, the wisdom, the force and skill. This combination is what Vader could've been if he hadn't been sliced and diced.

Maul was impressive as a Sith Apprentice, but I doubt the dude had the stones to destroy a whole planet. It wasn't his style, he was more of an assasin if anything, where as Tarkin was a military mind and probably a leader at one point. He embodies the political stance of the Empire, where as Maul is more of an original "Emporer's hand."

 

You're missing my point entirely. I'm saying that they both died prematurely in the first episode of both trilogies.

 

I'd say Tarkin did, Maul maybe not so much.

Tarkin had alot of potential, and when explored in the EU he's shown to be quite the sinister, cold genius. Maul was more of a quick flashy show to introduce us to the PT and the effects and choreography that would be used. The character never had much depth, even in shadow hunter he's shown to be a cold and mindless killing machine (almost like a terminator.)

Would AOTC have been better with Maul? Maybe, but Dooku was more of a military mind with great charisma and a public image to sway the Seperatists. Maul didn't have that appeal. Like I said, I feel like he was more of just a flashy gimmick to get viewers hooked and fanboys excited.

Tarkin, Tarkin had alot of potential and could've been explored more in the movies, but that could've taken away some of the time and spotlight focused on Vader.

 

I love Dooku, I'm not that big of a Maul fan and I believe he fulfilled his role and death was appropriate, however I'm referring to the stance that many Maul fans have that he was underutilized. I basically needed an analogy for Tarkin screen time wise.

 

I think Tarkin is more like Dooku than Maul.

 

I am aware of that... in fact Dooku is like Vader and Tarkin mixed together. Everyone is missing the analogy I am making. Please read my original post before commenting.

 

I agree, although Tarkin dying too soon in the OT is more forgivable because at the time they didn't know that it would definitely be a trilogy. At a minimum, the plot for the OT hadn't been mapped out.

But with Maul when TPM came out they KNEW it would be a trilogy and KNEW that they would need another apprentice after Maul and before Vader.

IMO it would have made more sense to combine Maul and Dooku into one character. In TPM he could have been a masked assassin who's identity no one knew. Dooku himself could have still been in the Jedi Order with no one knowing he was really a sith, like Palpatine the senator. Then in AOTC he could have been revealed to be the sith (with them not knowing if he was apprentice or master), which would have been a big moment since he would have been rejecting the Jedi. If this happened then when Anakin killed him in ROTS it would have been an even bigger moment.


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Shame that did not happen.

I get what the OP is saying here about early deaths and all, but I really like where you went with this.

 

Maul and Dooku are too different to have been combined. I am glad Maul was a one shot villan, he sets up the pattern of Palps always looking for a better replacement apprentice. The 6 original films have many villans that some fans feel were bumped off too soon. Maul, Jango, Grievous, and Tarkin. Jabba was originally a one shot villan too before the SE and PT, however, he still doesn't do much until ROTJ.

 

Tarkin over Maul. Tarkie blew up a planet and had some good lines to Vader and Leia. Maul didn't.

 

I don't mean combining the actual person of Maul with Dooku. You would basically eliminate Maul, and replace him with a disguised Dooku. Maybe wearing some type of mask along with black Sith robes and a hood. Instead of being killed by Kenobi at the end of TPM maybe he would have been defeated but found a way to escape.

The other villains you mentioned are minor characters in terms of the movies. With the idea I have you would have the Dooku character play an even bigger role than he did in the PT - he would basically be the Vader of the PT - Palpatine's apprentice for all three movies until being replaced by Anakin in ROTS.

This would make the flow of the PT make more sense - I know that many people view TPM as completely unnecessary and start watching with AOTC. You could have some type of foreshadowing with Dooku as a Jedi, but without revealing that he is a Sith apprentice. Would also add additional layers to rewatching the films - people that knew Star Wars already knew that Senator Palpatine was Sidious and would become Emperor, but we wouldn't have known that Dooku was a double agent.




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I simply don't view TPM as unnecessary and pity the people who do feel that way. Either way I prefer the way the films were made.

 

tarkin and maul are both interesting characters i wish we got to know more about them in the films

 

Episode VII needs an amalgamation of both the characters as a villain- Grand Darth Markin?

 

Tarkin is the Maul of the OT in the sense that both are villains that are killed off in the first movie of their respective trilogies.

That's about as far as the comparison goes, and it's not far at all.

I suppose you could continue to connect things and claim meaning behind it, but I think it's dubious.

Maul is a physical brute and Tarkin is sorta non-physical in that he simply commands brutes. Omg it's like a twist, they're mirrors of each other!

Maul is the future Emperor's apprentice and Tarkin is sorta the Emperor's apprentice in a way, but not even that, really. Omg similarities!

"Again it's like poetry, it's sort of, they rhyme. Every stanza kinda rhymes with the last one. Hopefully it'll work."

It's just not very compelling.

 

I don't think there is much similarity between Tarkin and Maul other that they die in the first film of each trilogy.

Tarkin has way more character and is by far more interesting than Maul, at least to me. Even with very little Peter Cushing is able to flesh out his character and make him a commanding presence. Even more impressive as he is often onscreen with the imposing Vader. But Tarkin is able to hold his own and there is a hint of a backstory between the two and a sort of mutual respect.

Tarkin can be seen as a personification of the Empire, more so than Vader. He is icy and ruthless. We hear about the Emperor but don't see him, so Tarkin can be said to be a stand in for the Emperor. With Maul, we also see his boss.

Tarkin is also in a way the personification of the Death Star. He commands it, he explains how it is going to be used and why. Fear, fear of destruction. And Tarkin wants to show the Galaxy just how much they should fear the DS and the Empire. If ANH is to end with the destruction of the DS then it is natural that Tarkin goes with it.

Given the choice between Vader and Tarkin, Vader makes more sense to keep alive. He has more backstory and a personal connection to the main hero, Luke. Both for what he did to Luke's father and to Obi-Wan.

Maul could have been kept alive, but to me the character was quite uninteresting so I am glad that he got bumped off.
More could have been made with him certainly. But alas that was not to be. Mostly Maul is there to fight well, kill Qui-Gon and then die. Something like Lurtz from Fellowship of the Ring.

Bye for now.
Old Stoneface

 

In the sense that they are both the secondary villain who dies in each trilogy's first film, but otherwise he's very much like Dooku.

 

I'm starting to see the similarity. Since Tarkin had political control over the Death Star, he was like the Emperor's main enforcer, like Maul was. (co-enforcer along with Vader to be precise) When the heroes' assault succeeded, Tarkin was destroyed like Maul was.

Pretty good perspective. I know I never compared Tarkin to Maul, because on the surface they seem drastically different with the former being a conniving political villan and the latter being a fierce warrior villain. Nevertheless, it really does has something to it when you think about it.

However,I have to comment on the fact that the Emperor didn't replace Tarkin. Even though the Emperor wasn't on-screen, he was directly established as the person in charge:

Tarkin: "The Imperial Senate will longer be of any concern to us. I have just received word that the Emperor has dissolved the council permanently. The last remnants of the old Republic have been swept away."

Imperial Officer: "That's impossible! How will the Emperor maintain control without bureaucracy?"

Tarkin: "The regional governors now have direct control over their territories. Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station."

As seen here, Tarkin is under the Emperor's orders to use the Death Star to instill fear and compliance into the local systems. So instead of the Emperor replacing Tarkin, his character is just elaborated on with his brief appearance ESTB and then his defining presentation in ROTJ.