Is the Dark Side is more powerful?

<<Luke - "Is the Dark Side stronger?"
Yoda - "No! ONLY EASIER AND MORE SEDUCTIVE"
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Not according to George Lucas, who stated himself (its listed over in the Interview/Quotes thread) that the Dark Side IS stronger, which is why Anakin would have to give in to it in order to obtain the power he wanted. Yoda may not have believed it was true, or he may have known but, much like Obi-Wan was known to do, told a "certain point of view"-ism to keep Luke from giving up in despair (or wanting the big boy powers himself).

 

It seems to me that the Dark Side offers greater physical power than the Light Side (or just The Force, if you prefer). That's the temptation...you can do anything you want with the powers of the Dark Side, things which would be frowned on as at best frivilous and at worst evil.

It's a 'get-out clause' from morals. There's nothing to stop a Jedi from walking down a high street and getting everyone to bring him food and drink, give him their cash, sprinkle rose petals as he walks...whatever, a Jedi could do all this. That he chooses not to, that a moral stand is taken instead, was the whole point of the Jedi Order ideals. Imposing restrictions of your own free will.

Without this moral willingness, a Dark Sider can do what they want. They have no limits on what they can do, because they don't care about the consequences.

That's the strength of the Dark Side. But mentally, spiritually, the Dark Side is stunted. The Sith could never appreciate the natural flow of life, the way the world moves, how to appreciate even the smallest wonders of the world. All their physical power comes at a price, and that price is that they're spiritually bankrupt.

 

The Dark Side of the Force is not stronger than the Force. It's just a part of it. That's what Yoda is talking about in ESB.

The Dark Side "philosophy" is more powerful than the Jedi philosophy, because it's all about power, to get what you want. The Jedi philosophy is all about letting go of your personal desires and not wanting anything in the first place. A Jedi's power is not for themselves.

Look at Anakin in ROTS- he has nightmares that he wants to stop from coming true. The Jedi teach him that he needs to learn to accept fate, to learn to let go of his attachments. It offers him no power to change the future.

Or Yoda vs. Dooku in AOTC- everything Dooku throws at Yoda, he can take. When Dooku shoots lightning at Yoda, he either catches it, or deflects it straight back at Dooku. Dooku can only wildly deflect it into the roof.

That's what Lucas is talking about in the AOTC commentary.

 

Even if Lucas says the dark side is stronger, I'm inclined to disbelieve him. The man changes his mind SO FREAKIN' OFTEN that you can't really hold him to an opinion. Ask him three more times which side is stronger, and he'll likely give at least two more answers.

From a certain point of view, though, he's certainly right. The Dark Side is stronger in a fight, generally speaking, as it's a way of molding the Force to one's will. But as I pointed out a few posts ago, the living Force holds the trump cards. It's just so much harder to use in a fight.

 

From a certain point of view, though, he's certainly right. The Dark Side is stronger in a fight, generally speaking, as it's a way of molding the Force to one's will. But as I pointed out a few posts ago, the living Force holds the trump cards. It's just so much harder to use in a fight.

That sums it up for me. Is it better to be a great composer of music that stirs people into action, a philosopher than can open windows in people's minds, a sculptor, a poet, a thinker of great thoughts?

Or would you like to be the Heavyweight Boxing Champ of the World?

Both have their plus points in the end. And a lot of people would certainly love the fame, money, and prestige from being a champion boxer than the rather longer path of a great composer, just for one example.

 

i think the dark side is definitely stronger. Not only does Lucas say so (i guess he has the last word, scince it's his baby). But, regardless of that, how quickly Yoda is to answer Luke that the dark side is not stronger (looking at his facial expression) i think that he is telling this to Luke in order to try and keep him from wandering whether it is or not. it's seems to me that Yoda for a moment is desperatelly not wanting the same thing that happened to Anikin to happen to Luke.

 

I like the Bruce Lee reference earlier in the thread, but I would use it in a different way. My analogy would be Bruce Lee fighting Hulk Hogan (in his prime). Two completely different fighting styles. Bruce Lee could whup up on Hogan with his quickness, but if Hogan ever got a good hold of Lee, he could do some damage as well.

Which one is more powerful?

If we are talking about brute strength, you gotta go with Hogan. If we are talking about grace, agility and overall effectiveness, you gotta go with Lee. In a sense, the dark side might be more powerful in its quick and easy brute strength, but the light side might be more powerful in its discipline, its skilled use, and its methodology.

 

I am of the belief that the force is neutral, and it is the intention behind the use of the force (by those who can use or manipulate the force) that is good or evil. You don't have to be a Jedi or Sith to use or be strong with the force. Anakin was strong with force, and used it without knowing it before he was introduced to the ways of the Jedi (pod-racing, etc.)

What are the additional abilities that one acquires when using the dark side of the force? Force lightning, force choking, and cloaking of one's intentions are some that I can think of. I imagine that if the Jedi took the time to understand the techinques of the dark side of the force, they would not have been blind to the "Phanton Menace". Only use the light side of the force, but at least understand and have knowledge of the dark side of the force to be able to defend yourself. "Know thy enemy".

On a another note, quoting from a previous post in this thread:

"According to Obi-Wan in ANH retaining your identity after death is the ultimate power."
"According to Qui-Gon in the ROTS novel no Sith will ever be able to do it. "

I believe that you retain your identity after death, or immortality of the soul, through an act of martyrdom: Obi-Wan sacrificing himself in ANH helps Luke & Co. to successfully escape and continue his on this mission; Anakin/Vader killing the Emperor to save his son, while mortally injuring himself.

It seems that immortality of the soul can also be achieved through the techique that Qui-Gon learned and passed on to Yoda. They did not die in an act of sacrifice, but through their meditation/training, they were able to achieve their goal.

This is how I believe Anakin is able to retain his identity after death without having received the specific training from Qui-Gon/Yoda/Obi-Wan.

 

It's the same old issue with the Dark Side though- you can't learn all about it's powers "just in case", and then say you'll never actually use it's powers. That's the whole point of it, with the whole "consume you it will" thing; it's a one way path.

As for the retaining your identity thing, I think that's simply all about giving yourself to the Force. For a Sith, the Force is all about the power that they can get from it. The idea of giving up your life to become more powerful is simply inconceivable to a Sith.

As I said before, the Dark Side provides a limited perspective- it's only a part of the Force, and because of the way it corrupts and consumes their thinking, they can't see the bigger picture. Hence, when Obi Wan gives himself to the Force, he becomes "more powerful than you could possibly imagine."