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"Is The Darkside Stronger? "

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by s0Lstar18, Jan 3, 2006.

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  1. s0Lstar18

    s0Lstar18 Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Sep 26, 2005
    I searched to see if this was mentioned already, but when Luke asks Yoda this he quickly says,no that its only the quick way to power, but I see on these forums alot of people mentioning that so and so tapped into the Darkside to make them stronger or give them an edge I've even heard that yoda did this while facing Sids, but is this true??? and if it is why would Yoda say no if he's tapped into it besides the fact that he doesn't want Luke to be tempted, and why is it stronger if it is????


    Thanks.
     
  2. JMN77

    JMN77 Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Well I think the point is that both sides of the force can lead to
    physical strength as well as strength of mind and soul, but it's how
    that strength is used.

    Light Side= positive use
    Dark Side= negative use

    And if Yoda tapped into the Dark Side when fighting Sidious
    he had a good reason to! Plus he rejected it immediatly after.
    Just like Luke tapping the Dark Side to beat Vader (so some say)
    but he came back instead of embracing it.... like his Daddy did.

    In our own reality I think you'll agree that it can be 'easier'
    and the 'quick way out' to do the wrong thing instead of what is right
    in certain situations.

    Example: Someone tells a racially motivated joke and you don't care
    for that kind of thing. Will you take the HARD road and stand up for
    what you believe? "Hey that's not right" or will you take the EASY route
    and laugh along with everyone else??

    Wierd example, I know but I think that's more or less what Yoda
    is telling Luke. Both sides offer power, but the Dark side is the easy
    way to undeserved, negative power.

    Hope that made sense!
     
  3. Brandon Rhea

    Brandon Rhea Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 26, 2004
    According to George Lucas, the Dark Side is more powerful but it will eventually destroy those who practice it.
     
  4. Commander_Bly05

    Commander_Bly05 Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Dec 3, 2005
    I would say that in all films, the dark side is shown as a stronger-negative force field (opposite from the Jedi) ... At least, this is the way it is being seen by all fallen Jedi, that turned out to be Sith lords. They believe that their power is way beyond the Jedi, and that's the reson why they failed to the dark side ... Just like we learned from Anakin in the first three episodes of the saga.

    YODA: Run! Yes. A Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware of
    the dark side. Anger...fear...aggression. The dark side of the Force
    are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you
    start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny,
    consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice.

    LUKE: Vader. Is the dark side stronger?

    YODA: No...no...no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.

    LUKE: But how am I to know the good side from the bad?

    YODA: You will know. When you are calm, at peace. Passive. A Jedi uses
    the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack.

    LUKE: But tell me why I can't...

    YODA: (interrupting) No, no, there is no why. Nothing more will I
    teach you today. Clear your mind of questions. Mmm. Mmmmmm.


    Yoda teaches Luke that anger, fear, and aggression, are key elements from the dark side that join in a fight, and will dominate anyone's destiny forever, like it happen to Anakin. Moreover, Yoda doesn't think that the dark side is stronger, nor weak. Although, he explains to Luke, and the viewers, that the dark side is quicker, easier and more seductive, like it happen to Anakin as well.

    The only way to know the good side from the bad one is when a Jedi is calm, at peace ... Passive. Just like Qui-Gon Jinn did when he encountered Maul in Episode I. Afterwards, he knew how to commune with the force and become one with it ... And this is why Jedi became more powerful than anyone can possibly imagine ... Just like Ben said it.

    After Episode III, Yoda realized that Jedi failed because of this, and he taught Luke in a different way from the early dogmatic point of view. That's why Ben Kenobi used a different style of fighting later on, and even Luke learned from Yoda how to control his fears, and not give into anger, nor aggression. He redeemed his father, who ended up destroying the Sith, and bringing the force back into balance ... Just like the prophecy said it from the beginning.
     
  5. Darth_Falcon

    Darth_Falcon Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2002
    I think it's important to clarify the meanings of "stronger" and "powerful". For example, Obi Wan states that if Vader strikes him down, he'll become more powerful than he can possibly imagine. However, when Obi Wan does die, he doesn't appear to be that powerful, in a physical sense. That is, he can't re-appear and destroy Vader while being impervious to any form of attack. He does become more powerful in that he can directly influence events and change the course of history like assisting in Luke's attack on the Death Star, as well as, I suppose, achieving immortality.

    As Bac has noted, Lucas has said the Dark Side is more powerful but I believe he meant that from a physical point of view. Anger can intensify your strength and as anger is a path to the Dark Side, the more you dip into your anger, the more powerful you become physically. Though, the longer you hold onto your anger, the more it tears you up inside, essentially destroying you. Anger and fear would also cloud your judgement and your thinking abilities and this is why someone on the Light Side can win in a physical contest against a Dark side adept. For example, Anakin vs. Obi Wan clearly showed Anakin was much more powerful strength-wise, however, Obi Wans cool-headedness and "take the high ground" tactic was enough for him to stand his ground and eventually win.

    Now is the Dark Side stronger? Yoda (essentially Lucas as he wrote the script) says no but it is apparent that the Dark Side is stronger physically. So I believe the "stronger" means which will prevail over the other. That is, has the Dark Side the ability to overcome the Light Side to which the answer is of course no. As Stover writes in the ROTS novel: "The dark is generous, and it is patient, and it always wins-but in the heart of its strength lies weakness: one lone candle is enough to hold it back." The light side prevails when the Emperor is consumed by his own evils and when Anakin realises the strength of the Light Side.

    So in answering the main question, no the Dark Side isn't stronger. And whoever thinks that Yoda dipped into it during his duel with Sidious, doesn't know what they are talking about. Luke dips into the dark side during ROTJ, that's it.
     
  6. GarthSidious

    GarthSidious Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2005
    here's what i say

    yoda says the darkside is a quicker and easier path. but light is good. and better.

    so as i see it,

    the darkside is like sugar (a simple carb). sugar gives you a burst of energy that can not be rivaled but if you work hard you are left exhausted and possibly with a stomach ache.


    the light side is like spaghetti (a complex carb). eat lots of grain, and though it does not act quite so quickly or as powerfully it provides a better source of energy for a longer period of time.

    exhaustion and a stomach ache means you burned yourself out; destruction in terms of the force

    but a long lasting healthy source of energy equals long life and prosperity
     
  7. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2004
    Consider Count Dooku. He turned to the dark side because he believed he could obtain greater power, and he prided himself on being bold enough to tap into this forbidden source. However, over time, he began to realize that the power he obtained was being used to destroy the very things he cherished. But he had already become too entrenched in the dark side to turn away easily.
     
  8. s0Lstar18

    s0Lstar18 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Good Responses I'm loving the answers and opinions...More!more!!!
     
  9. Liesl

    Liesl Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 31, 2005
    I like this analogy. :) It makes a lot of sense, too. I think that, like Yoda said, the Dark Side is faster, but the Light Side is more powerful over all. The Dark Side is like a dangerous short cut - eventually it will be the end of you.


    And on a side note, if the Light Side of the Force is a carb, does the prove once and for all that the Atkin's Diet is of the Dark Side of the Force? o_O
     
  10. GarthSidious

    GarthSidious Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2005
    the light side is a complex carb and the darkside is a simple carb. so theyre both carbs. the force is the carbs. so people on the atkins diet think they are better off without the force. like han solo.

    "no mystical bread and pasta field controls my destiny. just a lot of red meat and nonsense"
     
  11. Carnage04

    Carnage04 Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 8, 2005
    Very interesting Analogy. I really do like it. It is easier to fit in an perpetuate mockery and hate than to stand up and say "ENOUGH". From this day forward I renounce the dark side and will scold people telling jokes about blacks, jews, and rodians. ;)

    Carnage
     
  12. DarthMyBoy

    DarthMyBoy Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 29, 2003
    That's pretty much the simplest answer. As much as all of hate to say, the Dark Side IS stronger, but you can take comfort in the fact that it will eventually destroy you, and that is why the light is better

    Also, a true Jedi Master can play off and gain a huge advantage over a Sith who is going on only their passion, a la Obi-Wan and Anakin
     
  13. Mandalorian-Jedi

    Mandalorian-Jedi Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 28, 2005
    *Palpatine zaps Luke*

    Luke: Father, please!

    Palpatine: Hahahahaa....Aaah! Ahh!

    *Luke looks up in shock*

    Palpatine: My stomach! Aaah!

    *Doubles over*

    Palpatine: Lord Vader! Bring me some asprin and a warm mug of tea!

    *Vader puts on kettle*

    Vader: I told you that too much of that lightning was bad for you didn't I?

    Palpatine (Sheepishly): Yes Lord Vader. I'm sorry, I won't do it again!

    Vader: That's what you said last time!
     
  14. Annina

    Annina Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Apr 9, 2005

    [face_laugh]Oh yes!Very funny!;)
     
  15. MANDALORIAN

    MANDALORIAN Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 15, 1999

    George Lucas saying that the Dark Side is stronger is one of his pieces of revision.

    It has made a liar out of Yoda and made the Dark Side look mighty tempting.

     
  16. School_Zone

    School_Zone Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Nov 8, 2004
    It's the making a liar out of Yoda, that annoys me the most.
     
  17. Deciple_of_Malak

    Deciple_of_Malak Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 10, 2005
    "Is The Darkside Stronger? "

    Not in Classics trilogy. But looking at the whole saga and Expanded universe, I'd say it's stronger. Sith use things Jedi think are their weaknesses.

    Also, a true Jedi Master can play off and gain a huge advantage over a Sith who is going on only their passion, a la Obi-Wan and Anakin

    Nope. Not a good example. Obi beat Anakin only by chance. actualy, Anakin beat himself by jumping. If he didn't do so, Obi would never had a chance destroy him. Anakin was stronger.
     
  18. Sanctuary_Moon

    Sanctuary_Moon Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 20, 2004
    But also in ESB, Yoda said "Wars not make one great", when only 20 years earlier he was leading armies of Clone Troopers into battle. Either Yoda had a change of heart inbetween trilogies, or Lucas abandoned continuity when he wrote the PT.

    I wonder which one it was.[face_thinking]
     
  19. yoshifett

    yoshifett Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2004
    The dark side is supposed to be tempting. And Yoda and Ben are both liars throughout the OT. It's not revisionism. Why would Yoda tell Luke that the dark side is stronger? I mean, Yoda's not lying. There's not a cut and dry answer, it all depends on what you mean by "stronger." Capable of causing more damage? Definitely (See the galactic senate, post sidious/yoda fight)
     
  20. farrellg

    farrellg Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 17, 2005
    George Lucas saying that the Dark Side is stronger is one of his pieces of revision.

    It has made a liar out of Yoda and made the Dark Side look mighty tempting.

    I don't think Lucas's statement about the dark side is revisionism. ROTJ seems to demonstrate the strength of the dark side more than any other movie. After people watched the OT for the first time and saw how easily the Emperor dominated Luke with lightning, some viewers thought the Emperor was the most powerful Force user. I would think that seeing what the Emperor did to Luke would convince people that the dark side is stronger. After all, the Emperor refers to lightning as "the power of the dark side".
     
  21. Master_Starwalker

    Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2003
    The Dark Side is stronger in the sense that it is capable of causing more destruction. The Light Side however won't destroy you in the end, it also has feats that it is capable of that the Dark Side can't duplicate if you're going by the EU.
     
  22. DarthMyBoy

    DarthMyBoy Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 29, 2003

    Nope. Not a good example. Obi beat Anakin only by chance. actualy, Anakin beat himself by jumping. If he didn't do so, Obi would never had a chance destroy him. Anakin was stronger.


    I don't agree with that at all. You can say that Obi-Wan knew how to beat Anakin, but its not as if Obi-Wan lucked out or anything

    Ok, Anakin beat HIMSELF by jumping...why? Because he was blinded by his hatred for Obi-Wan and his arrogance. In essence it was the dark side that caused Anakin's demise

    Anakin may have been stronger...but Obi-Wan still won that fight
     
  23. GarthSidious

    GarthSidious Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2005



    you know whats even funnier? that is a quote whithin a quote. which means this is a quote (of myself, mind you) withing a quote within a quote. its simply ingenious.
     
  24. DarthButt

    DarthButt Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 11, 2003
  25. masteryoda5

    masteryoda5 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    May 17, 2006
    Hello everyone, it's been a long time since i wrote a reply.
    I just want to begin by saying this is a great topic. Now here goes:

    When Luke asked about the strength of the dark side, Yoda was fast to deny it superior power. He just told that it's an easier path, more seductive. Now what does he mean by that?
    Simple, if someone is annoyed by another person, it's way more difficult to keep your calmness and walk away. It's easier you confront him and express your disgust.
    Jedi training is way more difficult, it teaches you to learn to use the force in a passive way, where love and compassion are the key points. It tells you not to draw on your emotions. you can use your feelings but never your emotions.
    Sith training, on the other hand, is way more easier. If you're angry, be angry. If you hate someone, hate him. It makes the connection with the force intenser.
    Like the emperor said to Anakin: "Yes, I know you would. I can feel your anger it gives you FOCUS, makes you stronger."
    So an easier path.
    In time the jedi will learn to intensify their connection with the force just like the sith do, but in a proper way. So if they fight they both draw their energy from the force. And than it depends on strategy, force abilities, skills with a lightsaber.
    One more way to view it:
    If a jedi padawan fights a sith padawan. You will see that the sith has a more in tune connection with the force. He will display greater force abilities and saberskills. Because his training allows him to.
    What about Obi-wan (padawan) against Maul???
    Well Obi-wan is not your average Jedi. He had vast potential.
    I hope it isn't too long.
    MasterYoda5 [face_alien_1]
     
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