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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Is the Emperor really dead?

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by LANDO_ROCKS, Jan 31, 2013.

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  1. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    I thought we were talking about Force Ghosts. My bad.
     
  2. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    Again, if for some reason they fit into the overall plot I can accept them as I did in the OT.

    But an entire movie full of them, or putting them in there just for the hell of it (because "Look! People don't die in movies! It's like Kenny in SouthPark!"), or worse, Force-ghosting someone like Palpatine because "Look who's back, back again, Shady's back, tell a friend..."

    Just. No.
     
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  3. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Oct 31, 2012
    I know Yoda's line in ROTS but I don't consider Force ghosts to be immortal. They're dead and nothing can change that. They can't become corporeal anymore. I would also think that it's probably only a temporary thing.
     
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  4. Immortiss

    Immortiss Force Ghost star 5

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    Mar 10, 2013
    Toonimator: I know we've discussed this before and for the record, I really enjoy your posts and learn a lot from them.

    1. The question above is a great question and, like you, I don't know the answer to that.

    2. Your question raises the stakes for the end of the trilogy. Our heroes would truly be desperate by Episode IX. The audience can sit back and ask your great question...How are they going to defeat this evil? We know the Heroes will win in the end. Let's make sure we're in our seats rooting, but always wondering...'Are they going to make it?'

    3. It doesn't have to be Palpatine or Plagueis or anyone else we've ever seen. How about Dark Side Personified? Not a Sith Lord, but a Diety of Ancient Sith culture. We have immortality in Force Ghosts. Sith should not be immortal, but Sith throughout the ages, who are raised from the dead by a Necromancer/Diety. Like Sith Nazgul, Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse dressed in early concept (McQuarrie) Vader Armor. I guarantee it would be visually stunning. Force Ghost Anakin wielding a light saber at a Vader clad soulless corpse would be a very powerful image. We talked about a Skeleton Army of Clones and Stormtroopers that evoked the Battle Droids, raised by this evil to destroy the Jedi. It's like the story of Revelations. A Skeleton Army would be a great homage to Ray Harryhausen...the stuff SW is made from!

    4. The heroes would do the job primarily, but in order to get it done, they need a little extra help from the Force Ghosts (Cavalry) in the end. That creates the tension (how are they going to do it?) They're not primary, only ancillary to the Hero's Journey. The Hero would have to find the way to reach them, call them, access them. The only one able to do it, like a 'Chosen One', a returned King or Queen, Magic Key, Dark Force Crystal, some special ability or claim. This is Space Fantasy folks, not real life.

    5. In some ways this could be a natural progression for the end of the saga. Ethereal. End Times Feel. Prophetic. This is a personal kind of wish list for the saga ending. I'm sure you have yours, however, whatever they do, I want the writers to think and GO BIG for the ST.
     
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  5. Toonimator

    Toonimator Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Aug 16, 2006
    I don't think it's necessarily 'temporary', not the way Zahn was bound to explain it in HTTE (to avoid having Luke ask questions whenever he ran into something unexpected--like a supposed surviving Jedi Master--and ask questions about the Clone Wars, his mother, etc, things that the EU writers weren't really allowed to touch on much), I just figure with eternity around, those who achieve 'immortality' within the Force just wander around for awhile, (exploring the galaxy, since it SEEMS like that's something they can do if it's not limited to manifesting near people they were close to in life), and eventually they just decide to drift off into the netherworld and 'sleep', maybe. Still immortal, in a way, but not necessarily conscious--tho maybe they can be called back to consciousness.
     
  6. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    I think the whole point of Force Ghosts is that it's forever.
     
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  7. Lee_

    Lee_ Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 3, 2012
    But that doesn't mean it's in the movies forever....
     
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  8. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    huh?
     
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  9. Lee_

    Lee_ Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 3, 2012
    i.e. it exists forever, but doesn't have to be in the movie.
     
  10. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    oh
     
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  11. El Jedi Colombiano

    El Jedi Colombiano Chosen One star 6

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    Jun 24, 2013
    The idea of the Force Ghost is that the Jedi that achieved immortality did so because they could love, while the Sith could not. Therefore a Sith could never achieve inmortality as a conventional Force Ghost.
     
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  12. my kind of scum

    my kind of scum Force Ghost star 4

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    Mar 4, 2002
    Well, with Mcdiarmid saying at CE2 that casting would surprise people, I'm getting a little nervous that Palpatine *could* come back. Hoping not, but it's an odd statement.
     
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  13. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    I wouldn't consider it a resurrection if Palpatine's spirit appears, but his body stays dead.
     
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  14. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Oct 31, 2012
    I don't think that's what he meant (hopefully) because he's stated that Palpatine is dead and won't be involved in EPVII. That said like I said earlier I think a dark cave scenario would be the best way to do it if they want to. They could even leave it ambiguous if it really was Palpatine or just some manifestation.
     
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  15. my kind of scum

    my kind of scum Force Ghost star 4

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    Mar 4, 2002
    Very true and I didn't know he had said that Palpatine wouldn't be involved in Episode Seven...
     
  16. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Oct 31, 2012
    Here's his exact quote:

    And this is the article it's from:

    http://www.theforce.net/latestnews/story/Ian_McDiarmid_Talks_Palpatine_Spinoff_Film_150857.asp
     
  17. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    I could think many ideas that would be worse than resurrected Palpatine. One of Luke's students falling is one of these ideas.
     
  18. Lee_

    Lee_ Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 3, 2012
    Nice point, forgot about that. That is detailed in the end of the ROTS novel, which had the communication between Qui-Gon and Yoda (it was only referenced in the movie).
     
  19. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    Goodbye EU! Goodbye holocrons! (hope this is ok, mods)
     
  20. Lee_

    Lee_ Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 3, 2012
    We said that goodbye already when JJ, Arndt, Disney, etc. came in for Ep. 7. If George didn't write it, it doesn't count.
     
  21. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Oct 31, 2012
    One of Luke's students turning to the dark side is a pretty weak idea for a main villain but it doesn't make the OT completely pointless like a resurrected Palpatine would. Bringing Palpatine back from the dead is the worst idea IMO.
     
  22. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    huh? My point was that many fans want to preserve the EU but don't want immortal Sith, and the EU has immortal Sith.
    it does, actually.
     
  23. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    I think that's the point. That it makes the OT completely pointless.


    ...oh, ****, what is this? I'm at the pool and feel like the chlorine fumes must be getting me.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
     
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  24. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR

    DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Force Ghost star 5

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    Jun 8, 2002
    It sounds like he's hoping that he'd be in the live action series set during the twenty years between ROTS and ANH if that ever happened, but that's it.
     
  25. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    Actually, in that interview, he talked about being in an adaptation of the Darth Plagueis novel.
     
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