Discussion Is the Emperor really dead?

Is the sky really blue?

Ah yes... The Son of the Suns... Nice touch Ghost!

LOL! Depends on what planet you're on!!!!

I'd take that bet...no emperor in VII

Vader was missing a hand and was injured from being bested by Luke...so no I don't see how he could have "cut him in half"

Interesting tidbit there.

Palpatine will come back as a giant red-glowing eye on the topmost tower of the Imperial Palace where he'll be saying such cool-sounding phrases like "There is no death in the Force only life", "Build me an army worthy of Ziost" or "Jaina sister of Jacen - heir to Choosen One".

In Episode IX Jaina Solo throws the Kaiburr crystal into the fires of the volcano which destroyed the Zhell nearly 200,000 BBY, causing all Imperial military buildings in the entire galaxy to crumble immediately and the Eye of Palpatine to explode.

Because if he cut him in half, he would still come back in cartoons, like Darth Maul.

No, seriously, I hope they don't take a route like this, and am confident they will not. You never know who will have a role as a ghost, but they need an awesome and original story that has continuity but also has loads if originality, innovation, and thoughtfulness. Bringing back Mace, Vader, or Sidious and building a story around them is just too cheap and lame. They can do better, and we deserve better.

There was no confirmation in the movies, but in the bonus material from the original PT DVD's, Lucas clearly says Anakin was the chosen one and still is the chosen one even after he becomes Vader.

I agree with you Lee. Besides the commentary on the DVD's, there was even a WalMart exclusive DVD combo pack for ROTS that had a seperate DVD in a seperate case called, "The Chosen One", conatining footage of all six movies at the time with Anthony Daniels narrarating how Anakin was this one. An attempt to explain a contrived epic point to the saga that children found confusing. (The ultimate villian is actually a good guy?!?!) The idea of split second redemption in the final minutes of the saga.

But... even starting at Episode 1, George made it clear he was only going to make the Prequels. In fact, the introduction of the "Chosen One" concept altered the meaning of the OT. It was meant to nail down the lid of the SW saga. This was the mindset at Team Lucas when the comments were made.

Now we have the ST coming. Whether it's Sideous, Plagueis, or a new Dark Lord, and if in fact Luke is the main protagonist, the pounding question of whether or not Anakin was a false Messiah will be loud. It'll be the reverse of, "No. I am your father.", and Leia and Luke's two mouth kisses, all rolled into one. Once again, George's OCD method of storytelling will have to be overcome by "the next generation".

If the Sith return as the main antagonists in the ST, Anakin's place in the saga will no doubt change, as did the perception of Luke's character after the creation of the PT.

Since this is a Sideous thread, I'll mention this as well:

Lucas stated in the commentaries that Anakin is the balance of the Force by destroying the Sith, himself and Sideous, thus Anakin brings *balance* to the Force.

Let me postulate this philisophical paradox-

True balance of the Force cannot be achieved by total destruction of the dark side. That in itself would be an imbalance, would it not?

Were not the Sith tandem of Vader and Sideous nearly successful in eradicating the light side of the Force from the galaxy?

Was that not the reason the Sith were in need of an adjustment by Anakin?

Therefore, balance cannot be realized with the TOTAL destruction of the Sith.

WOw - I sure HOPE he was dead, and stays that way. Not knocking the EU, the clone idea, but not being an EU guy, I pretty much evaluate things on the basis of the movies.

And that is also not a knock on the character, but if he ISN"T dead, it lessens the entire six movies that we've already seen, in a huge way, it saps them of a lot of emotional and intellectual power. Everything over the course of the six movies was building to THAT MOMENT in the throne room, to Vader's fateful moment of decision, to the question of whether Luke was right that there was still some good in him. And because he made the choice he did, the Emperor was slain, balance was restored to the Force - it is just huge. It may be even more huge now than it was when we "just" had the Classic trilogy. To erase all that, to have Palpatine survive... wow, for me that would be a major major mistake.

IMHO, of course!

He's not really dead, just a little dead.

I agree completely!

The Emperor lives, and so does The King:



Tupac's death has been confirmed, though.

But the ST will change the way we view the last six episodes - especially ROTJ. Somewhat in the same way the PT did.

If the ST is the continuation of the 'Skywalker Saga' then some things will indeed shed a different light.

If they really wanted ROTJ to be THE defining moment of the saga then we would not be getting another trilogy.

That will largely depend on what the focus of the next movies will be. We don't know that yet.

Over the years we've learned that just because GL said AB or C in the past doesn't mean that he won't change his mind about AB or C later on. For example: Darth Maul. After Ep.1, GL said that he had Maul bisected and fall down a shaft so that people knew that he was dead and not coming back. Then, just a couple years ago, he changed his mind and brought Maul back. Also...first he said there were 12, then 9, then 6. Now, we're back to 9 and maybe even 12 again. Just because GL said that Palps was dead in the DVD commentary doesn't mean that he didn't change his mind about it.

Gary Kurtz (not Kutz) could be correct...Palps escapes so that Luke will have to catch up to him again later. And, I think he also mentioned a sister. Well, all of the basic elements of GL's original idea seem to be there...perhaps with some minor changes. Also remember what McCallum and GL said about the PT...that it would change how you see the OT. So, it would only make sense that the ST would change the way we see both the PT and OT.

Haven't they already said that the ST will be a continuation of the Skywalker Saga? If so, I don't see Ep.7 being a "restart", requiring a new villain. Having Sidious still be the main villain would work. I think it would also make Sidious be seen as even more powerful and much harder to kill.

And I was also thinking...just because the force was brought into balance at the end of RotJ does not mean that it couldn't go back out of balance. Plus, as others were commenting, if Luke is the only Jedi and there are no Sith/Dark Side, then there is no balance. But, if Luke (light side) and Sidious (dark side) are still around, there is balance.

I sure hope he's dead.

Now that we're getting the ST, I'm looking at this whole saga as one giant Ying/Yang symbol. That might not be quite the right metaphor but goes like this:

Anakin is the Chosen One and in a way represents the soul of the Galaxy. As he became corrupt, so too did the Galaxy at large. As he 'died' so too did the Republic/Civilization. The Empire (Esp the Emperor and Vader), not only represented technology at the expense of humanity, it represented death itself. Both beings and civilization were in some sort of unnatural, soulless, cold, life extending stasis.

Palpatine, in my mind, represented Death or the Devil.

Luke represents the opposite of Palpatine. That doesn't make him the messiah or necessarily god, it allows him to be a creative force for the Galaxy. Where Palpatine planned for destruction, Luke will be a positive builder.

So we had:
PT -- Palpatine planning destruction and Anakin joining him. Dark side immerges.
OT -- Palpatine and Luke fighting over Anakin's soul, Anakin returns and throws the devil back into the abyss and now civilization can return.
and possibly the ST -- Luke planning to rebuild society and spirituality. Light Side conquers.

I suppose that if Palpy is a metaphor for the devil incarnate, he could potentially come back. But I would hope not within this or any closely following generation.

A few comments on this:
1) I don't think it was totally a split second redemption; Vader is conflicted early in ROTJ. When look tells him "I can feel the conflict in you," followed by "its too late for me son" (this is almost a brooding statement it seems) then Luke is taken away, there is a quiet moment of Vader standing there still staring into space, obviously suffering from the idea of turning his son over to the emperor. Vader was conflicted for a long time about his son, but in the moment where Luke is about to be killed, he gives in to the conflict, saves his son, and is redeemed. My point is, it didn't come from out of nowhere right at that moment, it built up (interestingly, that is the way his turn to the darkside was). And yes, children would have a hard time understanding a complex character, but that is more true to real life. Bad people tend to be people that suffered a lot, and have a human side within.

2) I read the ANH (wasn't called that yet, it was SW at the time) and ESB novels before ROTJ came out in the early 80's, and the ANH novel alluded to Luke feeling kind of enamored and infatuated with Leia. Yikes, incest is best!

3) I don't know about your definition of "Balance," that is much debated. I tend to be on the other side, that balance is brought about when Sith are destroyed, and there is harmony. Kind of like homogenous balance in our body or in an ecological system, balance meaning everything is positive and working in a harmonious way. I think you are right though that we will find out a lot about this in the ST.

"I feel the good in you, the conflict."
"There is no conflict."
"You couldn't bring yourself to kill me before, and I don't think you'll destroy me now."
"You underestimate the power of the Dark Side. If you will not fight, then you will meet your destiny."

The RoTJ novel paints Vader in a more ambitious light than The Rise & Fall of Darth Vader does in that fight- the later book actually dwells on how Vader motives are becoming "greyer".

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees.....................................

Not necessarily. Sidious' energy/spirit could find a way back to the material world. He may have done it 100s of times already. Sidious could well be just his latest incarnation. Sidious went out like a punk in ROTJ and if he's powerful enough to pull down a Republic and run an Empire, defeating something as inconvenient as death would be child's play for him. He'll be back.....

The Jedi order, not the light side. Two different things.

Balance of the Force, not balance of the Force-users. Lucas has explicitly said there is balance at a point when there is a Jedi and no Sith. The Jedi are not the light side, the Sith are not the dark side. The sides of the Force are not groups of people.

Unfortunately, our pal George has said alot of things on record stated as fact over the years....

when he made that comment the saga was complete at 6 episodes and was the tragedy of Darth Vader or some crap like that

He's defined as the chosen one because of what he does in ROTJ. Whatever episodes are added, the events in ROTJ will presumably remain canon...