Discussion Is the Emperor really dead?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII - Spoilers Allowed' started by LANDO_ROCKS, Jan 31, 2013.

  1. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    If he returns as vengeful spirit I hope his new pupil at some point simply stops following his orders, leaving Palpatine to yell and scream impotently at the stars.

    Man, it seems like nobody wants a new villain. All the discussion circles around Palpatine and Plagueis, endlessly and endlessly and endlessly.

    At this point if they take the obvious path and invent a new villain many will be shocked and surprised.
    Last edited by Darth_Pevra, Nov 24, 2013
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  2. Dra--- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 4
    Well, I don't think anyone would mind a new villain, but it's easier to imagine villains we already know. Plus, there's the issue I've brought up in the past: new doesn't necessarily = good.

    Old is reliable.
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  3. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    It is?

    The last movies featuring Palpatine didn't do so well with the critics. He is hardly a guarantee that the movie won't bomb/suck.

    Plagueis is a more unknown variable, as would be a new villain.

    And now we're talking again about P&P. *sigh*
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  4. Darth Raiden Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2013
    star 3
    Gooooooooooooooooooood... Let the hate flow through you [face_devil]
    Last edited by Darth Raiden, Nov 24, 2013
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  5. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

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    May 21, 2008
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  6. Mystery Roach Chosen One

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    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    We will definitely have a new villain whether Palpatine returns or not. Rule of two. I think there's a lot of potential to bring in a much more interesting character than any of the non-Sidious villains from the PT who were simply there to set up and lead to Anakin's fall, and therefore didn't have enough opportunity to shine on there own. With the ST, we have the opportunity to go back to the sort of apprentice who has more of a central role in the story and more importantly hangs around to the end. I think Sidious will still be there pulling strings in the background, but the new villain will be the real focus. I also think there's a good chance this new villain will end up destroying Sidious himself by the end, but in a twist on Anakin's redemption because the new character does it for selfish reasons.
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  7. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    And that was totally Palpatine's fault.
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  8. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Did I say new villain? I meant "new main villain" since that is what we were discussing. Of course there will be new villain, the question is if we get a new primary villain.
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  9. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    I think "main villain" is subjective. Palpatine can still be controlling things for most of the movies but be in the background, while the new villain has a lot more story focus, in which case you could easily argue that he would be the main villain, as most people say Vader was in the OT. Only before the PT, Vader wasn't very developed as a character while the new villain of the ST can be.
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  10. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    If Palpatine is only there to give orders, he might as well not be there at all. He'd be a useless character doing useless things we were already shown many times before. There's only so much range with this character.
  11. Immortiss Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2013
    star 4
    He might be there to share secrets of the Sith.
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  12. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    That at least is a good reason. But you don't need Palps in persona for that. A holochrone would suffice.

    But yes, a ghostly Palpatine in a advisory role is imo better than a fleshy one.
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  13. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    Palps: It is I! The Emperor!

    Luke: I thought you were dead?

    Palps: I got better.

    (Audience leaves and commits mass suicide in parking lot)
  14. Immortiss Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2013
    star 4
    It might be interesting to have a blend of OT and PT villain structure. The OT had an Overlord and Darth Vader. The PT had successive Sith: Maul, Dooku, Vader and the Puppet Master. The ST might mix it up and change from singular or Rule of Two and gives us the multitudes in iconic OT villain suits. One issue with an entirely new villain is the lack of connection to the previous story, however slight. REBELS may provide the best opportunity for establishing a backstory for any ST villain, as I've heard that Episode VII will be like the Sun with peripheral SW content orbiting around it, caught in its gravitational pull. It is quite possible that we may have an individual from the Inquisitorius, the Sun Guard or an Imperial Royal Guard as a former apprentice of Palpatine, who acts more like a Pretender than a full blown Sith. As @Darth_Pevra and others have stated recently, perhaps he uses Palpatine in Episode VII and leaves him dormant and in eternal torment in the end. A decision that may prove consequential in the end.

    Episode VII might begin with this new villain organizing a reactionary counter-revolution against the New Republic using various factions traditionally opposed to democratic values; Mandalorians, Zyggerians, or even a small Sith contingent clad in armor evocative of the early McQuarrie designs invade several important planets in the history of the GFFA: Naboo, Corellia and perhaps even Coruscant itself.
    [IMG][IMG][IMG]

    The design would be used affect terror on the citizens of the Republic and a major psychological impression on Luke, Leia, Han and their relatives. Luke may be deep in an ancient Jedi Temple, secluded and focused on the present, while Leia and Han send their emissaries (new three) to seek his help, in the same manner Luke sought out Yoda. Or an Orphan Slave who escaped the Battle at the beginning of Episode VII discovers Luke before the others arrive to enlist his help. Episode VII might end in a tenuous victory uncertain over the meaning of the new threat, gained a new member, lost an important member of the heroes party and, as a result, perceived a new and mysterious crisis in the Force itself.

    Episode VIII Leia would be the newly elected leader during the New Republican Crisis. She must balance the moral and philosophical decisions between dictatorship and/or democracy. Han, as her most trusted adviser, barking orders, prefers dictatorship. The new three would decide secretly to embark on separate missions. One would seek answers to the present threat and the whereabouts of the new villain and the other two investigate and research the more recent and ancient history of the GFFA in general and the Sith specifically. The two end up on Korriban in the Valley of the Dark Lords, as the one follows his lead to the same place. It is here that the name Darth Plagueis is heard spoken for the first time by the new villain, before they are discovered the new three meet up and witness the Dark Lord raise a dead Sith soldier from the dead. Episode VIII ends with one of our heroes lost, but not captured and the others two rescued in a mission led by Han and Chewbacca, who excoriate them for the selfishness and foolishness. Therefore a cliffhanger.

    [IMG]

    Episode IX might have our lost Jedi in the heart of the Sith discovering an ability to communicate with tormented Sith Ghost Palpatine. She tricks him into divulging the secret of the Sith and the identity of Darth Plagueis (repeating the story of the The Wise) or exchanges knowledge allowing Palpatine to become corporeal. The other two are aiding Leia, Han and Republican Forces in repelling the threat of a Skelo-Trooper Army of undead Clonetroopers and Stormtroopers raised by Plagueis to destroy the Jedi, the Republic and to subdue the Force. The one succeeds in fulfilling the requirements, perhaps sacrificing her life, to end the Crises of the Force and call on the Jedi Force Ghost Elders to return in form. The other two defeat the new villain as the Anakin destroys his alter-egos and Plagueis himself. The End celebrations honor Anakin, Luke and the Orphan as Force Ghosts. @Mystery_Roach: This is how I might include Palpatine in the ST. Is the Emperor he really dead? Yes and no.

    [IMG]
  15. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    So in your plot-summary the ones doing the heavy lifting storywise are almost exclusively old characters. The new are at most supporting characters and don't even get a name.

    No passing the torch here.
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  16. DLINE Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2013
    star 1
    No he died. And I am a fan of the eu but he dies and will not come back
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  17. Dra--- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 4
    Why assume there is no possible character arc for Palps? Why can he only serve some external purpose, like sharing secrets?

    If Palp were a limited ghost (henceforth referred to as -ghost) or if he were stuck in Sith Hell (Chaos), his internal position would be much different from what we've seen before. Whereas before he was prideful and overconfident, now he might be desperate and depressed, humiliated and disgraced. To move from this state, he would have new external goals: regaining corporeality and/or regaining his sense of power.

    I think he would desire revenge again too, but he would have to achieve other goals first. And his revenge this time would be directed at new people: instead of the old Jedi Order, he would want revenge on Luke and even Anakin if such a thing were possible. The revenge would be more personal this time, at least in the first stage of his arc.

    Now compare this to a brand new villain, who could be interesting, but wouldn't have this powerful dramatic connection to the heroes and audience that Palp would have. It's always emotionally resonant to see how the mighty have fallen. It creates, as Aristotle knew, pity and terror in the audience. One might even begin to pull for Palp on his road back to a body. Here he is, this pathetic old man. One of Luke or Leia's children might take pity on such a poor tortured being. :(
  18. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    Or the emperor in ROTJ was an animatronic, and the real Palpatine has been hiding in Luke's X-Wing this whole time!!
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  19. Immortiss Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2013
    star 4
    You pass the torch through action and dialogue. Luke is out in the first act. Han and Leia support in the second. And Anakin shows up at the end to smite Plagueis. The orphan beckoned the Force Ghosts and sacrificed her life. The other mortal heroes destroyed the mortal villain. It was all dependent on them. She resolved the crises in the Force which saved the day.

    Let's say there names are Larry, 'Mo' and Curly ('Mo' short for Maureen).:p

    And, hey, I wrote that Palpatine becomes corporeal again to tie it in to the thread. Hopefully he returns in X, XI and XII.:D

    No, I didn't flush it out and I may. Thanks for the feedback. Geez, I even give the worst of them a little encouragement.=(( [face_not_talking]

    Oh, and @Mystery_Roach: I wrote it because I liked your synopsis on the basics. Thought I try my own. :)
    Last edited by Immortiss, Nov 24, 2013
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  20. DEATHCONQUEROR Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2011
    star 1
    yup.....I said I wanted new creativity and that's what I hope we'll get
  21. Dra--- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 4
    I enjoyed reading your outline, especially with the images you provided.

    The only critique I had was that I'd rather see Luke visit Korriban first before Han and company (or the new heroes) come to find and rescue/help him. That would help with the whole passing of the torch aspect: the new comes to rescue the old.

    But it was a nice long post with a real effort at imagining a possible ST, which I appreciate. Not every forum post needs to be a one line zinger.
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  22. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    72 pages of hopes and dreams. *sigh*
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  23. Immortiss Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2013
    star 4
    And your post was very thoughtful. In that light I could buy in to a return of Palpatine (believe it or not).
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  24. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    @Immortiss I don't think I'd go with that story personally, but I've seen much worse ideas... I do like elements of it and I think it's really cool that you put so much thought into all three parts. That makes me want to try to shape some of my current ideas into a workable overarching story soon.
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  25. Dra--- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 4
    Yes, more of this please. In these empty news days, the plot ideas are a refreshing change from all the same old arguments.