Discussion Is the Emperor really dead?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII - Spoilers Allowed' started by LANDO_ROCKS, Jan 31, 2013.

  1. Darth Chiznuk PT Trivia Master / Game Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 5
    Yeah, I put some sunglasses on him and threw a party at his Kamino beach house. Hijinks ensued.
  2. LANDO_ROCKS Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2002
    star 4
    Weekend at Burnies style!
    Darth Chiznuk likes this.
  3. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Basking in the Maui sun... his debt to society paid in full.
    Pro Scoundrel likes this.
  4. T-R- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2003
    star 4
    Facts aren't technicalities my friend, they tell the story.

    Humans being treated like gods are either avatars/incarnations (actual gods) or people called gods (which doesn't turn them into gods). Neiher are deities created by humans.

    Which brings me to the Force. No one calls it a god, they only refer to it as an energy field. Jinn even references gods to the Gungans, yet never once calls the Force a god. Once again, it is created by living things,not the other way around.

    and yes, gods could exist without worshippers since gods would predate the worshippers and would exist on their own.
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  5. Darth Chiznuk PT Trivia Master / Game Host

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    Oct 31, 2012
    star 5
    I've never met a God but if I ever do I'll be sure to ask him/her/it how they were made. ;)
    Last edited by Darth Chiznuk, Dec 1, 2013
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  6. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Who are you to decide that?
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  7. Dra--- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 5
    For some people, all gods and goddesses are social constructions. For these folks (like me), only people create superpowered beings, with language, like Marvel writers created the X-Men.

    Other people believe these Beings are not social constructions, but Real.

    So, people disagree. :)

    As for the Force, it's odd that it has a Will although it's meant to be a depersonalized or non-deity brand of religion. If the Force is not conscious and does not have an identity, what are we to make of this Will, eh?

    Don't ask me.

    EDIT: Some sort of pantheistic desire on the part of life itself?
    Last edited by Dra---, Dec 1, 2013
  8. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    George Lucas has likened the Force to God. That's enough evidence in my book.
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  9. Immortiss Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2013
    star 4
    I've heard him refer to it as 'love'.
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  10. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    I've heard God referred to as 'love'.
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  11. Circular Logic SWTV Interview Host

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    Mar 3, 2013
    star 4
    From the Plagueis novel, Plagueis notes that there were theories that balance between the light and dark sides of the Force were controlled by intermediaries---i.e. the Celestials, or rather the Ones in Mortis---and while they didn't exactly embody the Force (no higher being is ever said to), they are probably the closest thing we see to 'divine beings' in the GFFA, beings whose powers are beyond mortal comprehension. Hence, your comment on the "pantheistic desire on the part of life itself." Supposedly the realm of the ordinary, the 'profane world', if you will, was merely a byproduct of the eternal struggle between the light and dark. Extrapolating from these beliefs, one can argue that the events that occur in the GFFA---in essence, reality itself---may in fact be subservient to the will of the Force itself. That is, everything that does take place in the galaxy is by the whim of some higher power, in which case one can liken the Force to an all-knowing God.

    It would be interesting to see different viewpoints of the Force in the ST: the Jedi believe it is always beyond mortal understanding, that the "Force works in mysterious ways", that they should only seek to listen to it, to follow its will, while there may be those like Plagueis who seek to "measure and minimize it", as Luke put in response to Plagueis' entries in Book of Sith. In other words, those who attempt to try and comprehend as much of the Force's secrets as possible, in a desire (in the case of the Sith) to bend it to their whims. Sort of like a science vs. faith debate, only with regard to the Force.
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  12. Immortiss Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2013
    star 4
    Yeah, I think I've heard that somewhere, before, too.:p
  13. therealharvywallbanger Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2013
    star 1
    If he is still alive than Vader was not the chosen one to destroy the Sith.
  14. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4

    This has been discussed a lot, but my response is consistent. There are multiple possibilities for bringing back Palpatine while keeping the prophecy relevant. The first is that it was misread as Yoda suggested. This would allow for a wide range of interpretations. The second is that Anakin still has a part to play beyond death, just as Sidious does. And the third is that Anakin fulfills the prophecy through the act of procreation which allows for the Jedi Order to be rebuilt and for his offspring and their children/students to keep the Sith menace at bay in a way that the old Jedi Order was unable to do. Any of these are entirely feasible and reasonable explanations from my point of view.
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  15. therealharvywallbanger Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2013
    star 1
    I won't lie. I thought of all of those and others before I posted. But let me ask you this since you are obviously on my level to a degree... what is better... I well orchestraded story that any viewrer can believe in or a well orchestrated story that you have to help out the director to suspend your belief. I don't know about you but a good written fim to me is one that requires no further investigation other than watching it. Agree or no?
  16. therealharvywallbanger Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2013
    star 1
    The more Star wars movies that come out the more we have to make sense of it because each writer has their own interpretation. When it's done some guy with a wild hair up his ass will rewrite them all into a perfect cordinance of Star Wars glory. Unfortunately we won't be alive when that time comes but we get to enjoy the beginning. The scribbles. notching notes. The beginning we are apart of dont be afraid hmmm.
  17. LANDO_ROCKS Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2002
    star 4

    The only prophecy is that "the chosen one will bring balance to the force" whatever the hell that means.

    Anyway, you can argue that Anakin did that by saving Luke and defeating Sidious and bringing down the Empire, it doesn't mean he has to be dead.

    If you catch a killer and put him in jail then he escapes that doesn't lessen the achievement of the police officer who caught him - it just sets the stage for that brave officer to take on the killer again!
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  18. therealharvywallbanger Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2013
    star 1

    Lucas: Vader was the prophecy he destroyed the Sith. Thats the end of the story.

    Lucas after being bought out: I dont care what you do with it I have alot of money.
  19. therealharvywallbanger Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2013
    star 1
    I guess we are back open to interpritation whoohoo
  20. therealharvywallbanger Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2013
    star 1
    I'm glad he has been bought out.. I dont think he had a clue from the beginning to be honest.
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  21. therealharvywallbanger Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2013
    star 1
    The best story he ever told was with han solo. Money is the root of all evil. That was the story. Thats the star wars story he told and that is the one he sold. All the characters we loved had no monetary value and the one that did changed his ways. Han Solo.

    All the same, he didnt wrte it anyway. He probably never even thought about it.
  22. therealharvywallbanger Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2013
    star 1
    Just another writer who had friends and came up with an idea. Besides that look at him. He is a punchline to what Star Wars really is. It was a joke to him and the people working for him made it happen. Then he rode the bull until he seen an end and took the $.

    I will bet my life Goerge Lucas doesnt know about Star Wars like I do and doesn't care. Thats why it needs rewritten and not expanded upon. He already screwed it up enough. A complete rewrite is needed now.
  23. mavjade It's so Fluffy Fanfic & New Movies Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2005
    star 5
    @therealharvywallbanger - You have an edit button, please do not post back to back, especially multiple times. If the time has passed and you are not able to edit, then you should wait until other people have joined the conversation, unless it's been quite a while (as in a day or so) since anyone else has posted.
    Also, this topic is about if the Emperor is really dead, not about GL and money, multiple posts about so are not needed.
  24. DV75 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2001
    star 3
    Screw the whole lame 'propehcy' thing.

    We want to have fun with Star Wars again - and if that means bringing Palpatine back from the dead SO BE IT.
    Dra--- likes this.
  25. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Maybe there was a part of the prophecy that was overlooked since it didn't mesh with the Jedi of the time. When was the prophecy made?
    Before or after the non-attachment rule was made for example.