ST Is the Emperor really dead?

HE NEVER EVER SAID "LUKE I'M YOUR FATHER"

 

To me, Star Wars is the rise and fall of Palpatine (among many other things).

 

Then you truly are lost!

 

No...YOU WILL DIE

 

They should show some lowlife darksider listening to sidious holocron then Plagueis walks up and crushes it in his hand and snuffs out any remains of sidious

 

Yes that's the only way.

 

From



to a ghost would be a powerful echo. He was a phantom in that he was elusive and others weren't aware of him. Now, he could be a literal phantom.

 

Another parallel that they might want to do: GL created Palpatine as the dark side version of Yoda, and Yoda is a ghost when the ST takes place. If Palpatine's ghost appears, Yoda and Palpatine would both be ghosts.

 

How do you have Sith without someone to teach them the ways of the Sith though?

There are only a few alternatives -

1) Secret apprentice - the 'rule of two' kind of squashes this one

2) Sith Ghost - we've only seen Jedi come back as ghosts and it's implied that you need to 'become one with the Force' by letting go of attachments etc to do it. I guess this is a possibility.

3) Clone - not a chance in hell this is happening.

4) Sidious survived the fall - this is my favourite explanation, you don't see him killed on-screen.

5) Holocron - I'm not sure what this is, sounds like an EU thing but apparently they are like computers you can upload yourself into or something, doesn't sound likely to me.

 

I like this. My only issue is what seems to be the difference between natural (Jedi Force Ghost) immortality; letting go, sacrifice, becoming One with the Force. And unnatural immortality (Sith); using scientific methods to manipulate physical cells called midi-chlorians to retain a physical presence, unwilling to let go, selfishness. The thought that Sith can become a ghost seems anathema to Sith philosophy, unless that Sith ghost is weak, dependent, unable to control or have much influence on the affairs of the mortal plane. As opposed to Jedi Force Ghosts who can become more powerful through faith and belief. What do you think (based on what we know from the films)?

 

The only Sith who insisted on physical immortality is Plagueis, and that was his downfall (unless he appears in the ST). Palpatine would be interested in becoming a ghost.

Also of interest is that old ROTJ concept about Palpatine "transforming like Obi-Wan".

 

I'd disagree that the Jedi's ability is "natural" since it is a trick only usable by beings with high midi counts trained to use the force.

On the difference of a jedi's version and a sith version, what if a Jedi's ghost has the ability to show up wherever it wants to as seen in the OT and a Sith's version doesn't. Maybe a sith can be a ghost but it's localized a la Kun in the EU.

Maybe the new characters are really looking to salvage scrap as seen from the audition script. Salvage scrap from the Death Star II where they stumble across Palpatine's ghost that either possesses one of them or starts to train one of them.

 

1. How do we know that Palpatine followed the Rule of Two after becoming Emperor?
2. There could be another way of becoming a ghost that Qui-Gon didn't know about.

 

I don't know about that. I think Palpatine may have fed on dark side power to elongate his life indefinitely had not Anakin redeemed himself.

Yoda instructed that the flesh is crude, so it makes sense that a Sith would like to retain that which is crude. And death is a natural part of life, miss them not. Mourn them not. The Jedi let go of themselves in faith and belief and are rewarded with immortality.

 

I never got the impression that immortality was something that the Jedi were rewarded with because of their faith. It's said to be something that was specifically taught to them. From a thematic point of view, in the saga as it currently stands the Jedi's ability to retain their essence after death stands in contrast to Palpatine's more physical view of immortality, but I think this could work to the story's advantage if Palps were then to find a way to achieve that same power after his own death. Again, it turns what we think we know on its head and forces us to re-evaluate certain concepts which can then be explored at greater lengths and lead us into some new and interesting territory. Classic SW storytelling IOW.

 

There is absolutely no evidence in any of the movies that Palpatine had a "physical" view of immortality.

 

He talked about cheating death and saving the ones you care about from dying. I'd say that's a pretty physical view. Not that I think he wouldn't be open to other means of returning if they were presented to him.

 

He was talking about Plagueis and manipulating Anakin. His own, true views could be very different.

 

That's true. I said the saga as it stands for a reason. We may well find that to be the case, but only taking the first 6 movies as a whole there does seem to be a thematic juxtaposition between the type of immortality he refers to and the type that the Jedi achieve. That's all I meant.