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TOR Is the Old Republic going to be a bust?

Discussion in 'Games' started by darth_nemisis, Oct 13, 2010.

  1. Maulfly

    Maulfly Moderator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Oct 23, 2001
    Not just that. You also have to consider how much change the players themselves would be willing to put up with. Especially the hardcore WoW players BioWare might be trying to lure over. As much as players might gripe about being bored with WoW, if you give them a game that removes the Auction House, or PvP, or even crafting, just see how long it takes for a complaint thread to get posted. There is a measure of comfort in the familiar, which is one of the reasons the WoW model has stood up so well for so long.

    A certian amount of "Get x number of item B" just comes with the RPG territory, not just MMORPGs. It's just in MMOs you often need to fall back on a lot of busy-work quests to fill space in hopes to keep players involved (and subscribing) over long periods of time. Players used to this will probably be annoyed at BioWare's attempt to add in story elements and VO if it slows down their ability to grind levels. Then again, it might be a breath of fresh air. Hard to say until players get their hands on it.

    If there's anything that will determine how well received ToR will be, it might be how well the servers handle the load and how responsive BioWare/EA are to issues.
  2. Darth_Gamek

    Darth_Gamek Jedi Knight star 6

    Aug 10, 2009
    Is the Old Republic going to be a bust?

    Yes. In my opinion.
  3. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Nov 15, 2004
    I believe it will do pretty well, just probably not as well as WoW, as it hopes to undoubtedly do.
  4. Tholain

    Tholain Jedi Youngling star 1

    May 12, 2011
    If it fails.

    What would that mean to BIOWARE?

    Less creative control?
  5. tjace

    tjace Jedi Master star 4

    Feb 11, 2008
    Hopefully, it would make them go back to their roots. Y'know, single player RPGs. I'm still upset that I can't have KOTOR III. Still, I do want it to do well, if only to bury WoW.
  6. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Nov 15, 2004
    I'm sure they'll go back to it. For now, we have ME, which as I understand is fairly good.
  7. Ferus-Olin

    Ferus-Olin Jedi Youngling star 1

    May 8, 2008
    Will it bust? I've played about four different mmo's and they normally don't "bust". It depends how your defining a "bust". Will it reach World of Warcraft levels? probably not. Could it be a successful game? It's possible provided they release the game at a proper time and don't rush it. Rushing the game out with a lot of bugs and sever issues turns a lot of people off the game right away. They need to take their time and release a finished and polished product. Another key issue is going to be how well they can police their game. If they allow bots and farmers to run wild; the games subscribers are going to continually drop.

    I will say however, since it's a Star Wars game and it's going to be from all accounts using a combat system somewhat similar to WoW it should at least appeal to a big audience from the start. Looking forward to it personally so here's hoping it's awesome [face_dancing].
  8. fistofan1

    fistofan1 Jedi Master star 4

    Dec 8, 2009
    If the developers return to Star Wars' innovative roots and strive to make a game that either meets or exceeds players' expectations, then no, it won't bomb.
  9. HectorV

    HectorV Jedi Youngling

    Jun 8, 2011
    When u think about it anything with the Star Wars title is rarely a bust, financially wise at least, cause there are so many loyal fans (myself included) that will buy pretty much anything that gets put out. Then throw in Bioware and the huge amount of interest its already generating and you've got a game thats gonna sell big:) keeping the subscribers of course is gonna take a good game and I'm hoping it will be:)
  10. BasharGelion

    BasharGelion Jedi Youngling

    May 19, 2011
    The only way it could bust would be some crazy mismanaging by EA or LucasArts. The Bioware team has done everything right to this point. When I was down at their studio, everyone I met was so incredibly committed to making the best game they possibly could it was crazy. I was worried before they let us sit down and play, but once we did, wow (no pun intended).

    Keep this in mind: we were playing an OLD BUILD of the game. We weren't even playing a build current as of two months ago. They've updated so much since then, but if I could have kept playing the game I did play, I gladly would have. I would have given them all the money I had on me right then and there.

    The game is beautiful, plays like a gem, all the innovative features are just so frackin' cool, and with the guild my site has already built, it's gonna be an amazing Day One.

    I tried to play WarCraft after we had to leave and come home, but I just couldn't do it. WoW feels so clunky after having played TOR. Not just about "Oh, the graphics are so much better," 'cause, come on, it's a newer game, of course, it's gonna have better graphics; EVERYTHING about it felt better and more polished. Not to say that WoW is not a fabulous game, but the innovations in TOR like the dialogue system, the advanced classes, the improved PvP, engaging fighting engine, and personalized story lines just make it so much more engaging than slogging through Elwyn Forrest again and again and again. Even if you don't play a race other than human in TOR, every class has a new starting zone and a different story. People will have so many alts, it'll be hard to pick a main.

    Trust me, the game itself will be glorious. Managing a MMORPG is hard, but if anyone can pull it off, it's BioWare Austin. They are awesome people. You can see a little bit of what our time was like down there with this [link=]video[/link] they put out.
  11. judis9198

    judis9198 Jedi Youngling

    Jun 19, 2011
    I certainly hope it isn't a bust but I definitely want to play it. It might actually get me back into a MMO.
  12. Kius

    Kius Jedi Youngling

    Mar 26, 2011
    From the reviews, to the hands-on, to the leaks... everything. This game will have its flaws, sure. Will it be a bust? Don't bank on it. This will be- and this is in all seriousness, not just the fanboy in me- probably the biggest selling game of all time when it's all said and done.

    This game is AMAZING. And it's not even done getting all the bells and whistles added in. Every single detail has been paid attention to. BioWare Austin really has been on top of their... you know... "gizka."
  13. Riven_JTAC

    Riven_JTAC Jedi Master star 4

    Jun 28, 2011
    As time continues to pass, I get less excited about the game. The "MMO" part is what gets me, not the "RPG" part. I just am not a fan of multiplayer games. But, the fact that it says "Star Wars" on the side is more than enough to get me to give it a hard look.
  14. cdgodin

    cdgodin Jedi Master star 4

    Oct 9, 2009
    No. I hate MMOs, but I am starting to get interested in this game for the story and the voice-work. IMO, I think that in the end it will prove to be more popular than WoW.
  15. Kius

    Kius Jedi Youngling

    Mar 26, 2011

    And, I share some of your sentiments- I hate traditional MMOs with a passion. That said, TOR will be something like 97% solo-able, according to the devs. I'll eat the other 3 percent for another BioWare RPG, which in essence will be single-player if I want it to be.
  16. DarkLordoftheFins

    DarkLordoftheFins Jedi Master star 4

    Apr 2, 2007
    From what I heard, seen and what people who played the demo told it is pretty much a very common, very usual MMO. You get a party and then you go in. The Alderaan gameplay could have been from Lotro or AoC, too. So I think the whole Single Player idea should not be overrated.

    BUT Bioware is doing it. Or are they? I mean I love Mass Effect and Dragon Age certainly has it´s own great qualities. But those guys are not working on TOR. They are working on ME3 and DA3. So who is? The guys from kotor? nope, they do ME3 now. And they are so expensive andhuge, they will simply have hired lots and lots of outsiders to do the work.

    So I think it is pretty much a 40/60 chance against TOR. As it usually is with games. DCU recently was expensive and has an awesome license and it did not take of. Rift went pretty much down the ether. I don´t expect too much. I´ll get it, play it and then decide if I subscribe. But it can be both a great or very mediocre game. So far I am not convinced.
  17. Darth-Vassago

    Darth-Vassago Jedi Master star 5

    Jun 28, 2004
    I don't think Bioware & Co. is stupid enough to "go after" WoW or even "hope to be as big as WoW." I think they're desire is to grab the Star Wars fan-base, the fan-base that has been grinding on Galaxies and even WoW, and bring them an MMO experience as rich and full as the Star Wars mythos. I think they know how loyal Star Wars fans are (look at Galaxies...really?) and they want to grab those folks and just take them for the ride of their SW loving lives. For that, they will have a lot of long-time subscribers.
  18. DarkLordoftheFins

    DarkLordoftheFins Jedi Master star 4

    Apr 2, 2007
    But they need to have an amazing number of subscribers. This game has to be as successful as TFU or it is a failure considering what it cost. So with this kinda money put into it, it is save to say the risk of it being a bust has risen considerably, because it simply has made it more likely to be one, itself.

    And these kind of subscriber-numbers are not waiting out there with time at their hands. They already play something, obviously. So I think taking players from WoW and EVE (which got SciFi fans) will be necessary for the game to succeed. Now let us see if they can do it. :)

    Good thing is users got a bit tired of both, lately.
  19. Darth_FattyAss

    Darth_FattyAss Jedi Youngling star 1

    Dec 10, 2002
    I don't think BW or EA have anything to worry about...given that 1,500,000 million people have signed up for the Beta I think that's a fairly indicitive of the excitement for this game. They have enen gone on record saying that a user base of 500,000 will make the game a financial success and the numbers bear that out. Assumimg a typical subscription rate of $15/month and that everyone only bought the base game (no CE)the numbers look like so:

    Subscription Rate Subscribers 1 month 6 months 12 months
    500,000 $7,500,000.00 $45,000,000.00 $90,000,000.00
    $15.00 1,500,000 $22,500,000.00 $135,000,000.00 $270,000,000.00
    2,000,000 $30,000,000.00 $180,000,000.00 $360,000,000.00

    price point Subscribers Revenue
    500,000 $29,995,000.00
    $59.99 1,500,000 $89,985,000.00
    2,000,000 $119,980,000.00

    In a worst case scenario; the game only sold $500,000 copies and has maintained that userbase for 1 year the game has made $130 million, which does recoup the cost of the development of the game. The rumor that this game cost $300 million to develop is wildly incorrect however I do think the game development costs will top out well over $100 million, probably closer to $125 million. That said, I think it's fair to say that the 2,000,000 subscriber figure is closer to reality in which case the game will have made close to $500 million it's first year. Needless to say, I had some extra time at work today.
  20. LordTroepfchen

    LordTroepfchen Jedi Master star 4

    Apr 9, 2007
    Okay, you convinced me the game might actually be in danger :p I don´t believe it will be a bust, alrthough it isn´t the second coming fans wanted it to be. with a critical look at what´s availalbe it´s an MMO. A good one.

    But the above calculation if I get it right is based upon the idea they a. Have no costs (in which every game makes oney at omse point) b. No taxes and c. No marketing.

    So I think the thing is that. 125.000.000 + 50.000.000 marketing. They probably keep 40% of the boxed price and 50% of the monthly fee. They will cut into the black numbers within two years with 2 million subscribers. Probably a success with about 3 million subscribers. And they need them to stay. I say: GREAT!

    Nothing better for keeping a game fresh than developers who still need to struggle. I mean SERIOUSLY, half of all games out there was ruined after the launch. The world-changer updates usually are the point where a game falls or stands.
  21. Qui-Gon_Reborn

    Qui-Gon_Reborn Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Dec 11, 2008
    Does this tell us anything?
  22. Darth-Vassago

    Darth-Vassago Jedi Master star 5

    Jun 28, 2004
    Except it doesn't set out to be traditional, common, usual, etc. It has hours upon hours of voice work, not text. Rather than only snippets of the game having voice (see: DCU) this is fully voiced. From NPC's to your player. Not only that, this game is an MMO that is setting out to play as an RPG for a single player, but you're in a huge world full of other players. Then, when you're ready to do some questing, you can get into it.

    There's so many nay-sayers that are just stuck in the stance of "It's just like WOW and everything else!" When, if you watch any of the gameplay trailers, it's so clearly not. It's amazing to me how some people can be so against the idea of this game being awesome when the proof is laid out in front of them.
  23. Maulfly

    Maulfly Moderator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Oct 23, 2001
    They've had their hearts broken in the past and enter into all future game relationships towing that same old baggage around instead of seeing the new game as a separate entity. :p
  24. RidingMyCarousel

    RidingMyCarousel Jedi Master star 6

    Feb 20, 2002
    Let's be fair, with all fanboy impositions aside:

    It could bomb. Sure, release day will be great -- but after 6 months and 12 months we'll see the game's true success. Personally, I don't care. I've always preferred BioWare's games on the 360 and since they're releasing this one as PC only it looks like I'll be sticking with Rift for my mmo addiction.

    They need to also market this game to non Star Wars fans.

    If they can market it right and the overall game is great, sure, it'll probably do well.

    I'll be waiting for KOTOR3, though. And the next rabid fanboy that tells me TOR is KOTOR3 is going to get hurt.
  25. Darth_FattyAss

    Darth_FattyAss Jedi Youngling star 1

    Dec 10, 2002
    TOR is KoTOR 3.