PT Is the Prequel "Era" of Star Wars over? If so, what did it all mean to you?

I enjoyed it quite a lot. The movies themselves were good, but the Expanded Universe stories surrounding it made them golden.

 

It meant that I learned what a Real Star Wars Fan is. And who were the arbiters of that title.

 

It had its enjoyable moments and kept Star Wars going I look forward to the sequel trilogy.

 

I haven't had too much exposure to PT Era content till yesterday and today with an extensive crsh course in TCW now alongside the PT films. It has further strengthened me in disliking how the Old Republic and Old Jedi Order are presented. I empathise with the Separatists, Empire, and Sith even more now. Yet, I still don't buy they are the 'ultimate' evil people paint them as. We still have no idea what their motives are merely that they oppose the Jedi. The Jedi are corrupt as well. My view that all are grey is unchanged. Though props to TCW for making me like Dooku *more*. I did not expect that.

No, that does NOT mean I condone evil acts. On either side and *both* committed many. Now I am ready to move on. I hope Luke gets the fresh start he deserves in the ST.

 

The PT gave us a motive for Palpatine - revenge on the Jedi, for defeating the Sith all those centuries ago and ending their reign.

 

For you, perhaps.

 

You might actually appreciate some episodes of the latter 3 seasons of TCW, If you haven't gotten there yet, which address the fact that there are good (and at the very least sympathetic) people on all sides, as well as the faulty nature of the Jedi order. Definitely provides a more shaded portrayal than what we've become accustomed to.

 

I agree, Sir. I saw the Politics arc last night. Heroes on Both Sides was a highlight for me. One of a very few.

 

So the Sith aren't evil for ruling through fear, enslaving the galaxy and killing those who oppose their political view? I don't see the Jedi blowing up a planet to maintain control over the Republic.

 

I don't condone evil acts on *either* side, Sir. As I have said many times. The Alderaan example holds not the weight it does with you, with me. I do wish people would realise that. I don't condone scaling. Evil is evil no matter who wields it and no I see very little difference in essence between the Jedi and the Sith and as done that I have seen I am more drawn to the Sith/Empire and almost always have been. I likely will remain so.

 

The third movie was called Revenge Of The Sith, after all.

 

So?

 

So - that's the motive for Palpatine's actions - revenge. He also says "Once more the Sith shall rule the galaxy"

And in TPM, Maul says "At last we shall have our revenge".

The point to be made is - the PT were pretty good at giving us a motive for the actions of the Sith.

 

Once again, for some.

 

So - do you not believe that the motives were given to us, in the movies?

 

Specifically, no. Revenge is very broad indeed. The motives are never shown and I believe it's on purpose. The point seems solely to hate the Sith/Empire and most fall right in line. Not me.

 

So many ways to answer the question...

For me, the prequel era has meant a ton of lively debate, geek fights, heated arguments, dogmatism, and a mixture of good and bad in the discussion arena.

It has also meant a lot of rambling and whining on blog posts, a galaxy of Lucas hatred all over the online film / culture / sci-fi community (especially, once upon a time, at AICN: a nexus of fan bile), gulfs of misunderstanding, unreasonableness, endless kvetching, and non-stop assertions that the prequels are "clear failures" and Lucas is a "money-driven, egotistical hack"; and let's not forget the labelling of anyone who likes the prequels as "apologists" with "awful" taste in films, if being charitable, or "no" taste in films, if being not. Or maybe that's meant to be the other way around, I can never tell.

On the other hand, despite all the dick-waving and discontent, the prequels have remained a strong fixture of the cyber-geek industrial complex all these fifteen years, and still the debate -- and the defamation -- rages on. And in the middle of all this discontent, many powerful and exciting observations and mini fan movements have sprung forth. It really is the passion on both sides of the fence that's memorable and inspiring; though also, at times, a little scary. The clamour has become an artistic movement in and of itself. May I be the first with this? "Prequelism". Mark my words, it's the "Impressionism" of its day. And very much a participatory, democratic splurge of emotion. It's all so keenly "Early 21st Century", somehow. Star Wars has ruined the Internet. Or again, maybe it's the other way around. Tell, I cannot.

I look back fondly on the "early" days of animated prequel discussion, particularly with regard to this website, TFN / the JCF, because the arguments and perspectives were less stale, more honest, more raw; and there's a certain magic -- as there always is -- in being "first responders" to some kind of event or happening which has only just taken place. Back in the early "noughties", the prequels still had that virgin purity about them, that inimical smell of being fresh out of the box. We are the first generation, the closest (in a chronological sense) to the movies and their inception. There's a special magic in having lived through their creation. We shared the planet with the saga's creator and all the forces that brought these films into being. At some point, as we busied ourselves attending school or work, or raising kids of our own, or holed up in hospital beds, or just getting born, George Lucas was deep into the conception and crafting of a new piece of cinematic history: his own legacy reborn. I've sometimes wondered, what was it like to live through Elvis, The Beatles, Bob Dylan, and The Rolling Stones, or through the Golden Age of Hollywood, with its high-gloss, studio-dominated aesthetic, long before home computers or video tapes? We have an equivalent age to look back on, since the days of "Terminator 2" and "Jurassic Park", most fully embodied with the rambunctious scuffing and scrapping that has become a design feature of the modern Internet experience.

Most people here have probably forgotten or aren't even aware that the prequel movies were once discussed in a very structured and in-depth way on this site, thanks to a TFN member called Moleman1138: the bright spark who created threads for the express purpose of discussing and analyzing -- or simply screeching about -- each of the three prequel movies, one chapter at a time, each with its own thread, occurring over the course of several months. I was involved with the ROTS "CBC" ("Chapter By Chapter") discussion, which began in earnest just after the DVD came out in Oct/Nov 2005. I look back on that period with a nostalgic glow. Indeed, I have all the threads saved to my hard drive (and backed up on pen sticks), which are, thankfully, fully intact, and still a joyously enriching read to this very day (I've dipped in and out of them several times in the past few years and they always come back fresh). After everything that's been said subsequent to those threads (the whole discussion process wrapped up 7-8 years ago), I'm awed at the density and richness of the discussion content. It might sound a bit conceited, since I was one of the participants (I contributed to almost all the chapters), but I think some fan magic was created back then that doesn't exist now. We really into a lot of detail in some of those threads! Discussions today, sadly, tend to be more general and cyclical. Hewing close to the actual film content, in a precise, linear fashion, can do wonders for the quality and depth of the observations that spill out: it's a mosaic of art *about* art.

And yet, for all I just said about that very cherished time, I've noticed that fan efforts have gotten richer, where the PT is concerned, over the past half-decade. The first thing I found to be of tremendous value was the MSTRMND analysis of the original movie, which I came across in 2009. This was followed a little later by the RedLetterMedia review of TPM and then AOTC and ROTS. These efforts represent a kind of geeky "crossing of the threshold" into new levels of media-driven obsession. Rather like the "CBC" discussions which I greatly value, neither would be possible without the DVD / Blu-ray / download world we now firmly live within. The latter two -- MSTRMND and RLM -- also have a certain "gonzo" style in common, even though their basic approaches are radically different. That's what I find fascinating about them. Very few other films seem to generate the same level of manic commentary; a deep-seated need to both explicate and fulminate. This aspect alone really impresses me where the prequels are concerned. It might be why I like to think I've never been as hostile to negative responses as some (though, yes, they rub me up at times, based more on the reaction around the content than the content itself). I see the totality of the responses, pro and con, as incredibly symphonic, like the saga itself. It can be great fun to embrace the Dark Side, if only momentarily. Anyone was has read ChefElf's 70-odd reasons to "hate" each of the PT movies and chuckled, as I have, hopefully knows what I mean. And at almost the same time -- as if there were something in the water -- this site's very own "Jedi_Ford_Prefect" wrote several essays about the PT for the "wondersinthedark" website: two for TPM, one for AOTC. His second TPM essay, an epic, shot-by-shot analysis of TPM's big lightsaber duel, is utterly masterful, and may qualify (in my mind, at least) as the single-greatest prequel monograph ever written. Though, last year, Paul McDonald's wonderful book, "The Star Wars Heresies", finally arrived: a majestic tome that vividly brings the entire prequel storyline to new life, putting flesh on the bone, and clothing the trilogy with the silky assurance of someone who is comfortable in the world of myth and poetry, a person who loves Alan Watts and respects Ancient Chinese wisdom as still having something to say or impress upon the modern mind. An essential purchase for any serious-minded prequel fan.

I need another paragraph to finish trumpeting all these recent prequel developments, especially in the field of books. But before that, a shout-out to a unique TUMBLR blog, "Star Wars Verses". That blog is, in a way, the spiritual successor to the old "Galactic Symphony" page, maintained by Michael Hopcroft, and now defunct. But it manages a sublimity only hinted at in its original incarnation. A fascinating fan effort that bridges all the films and builds intriguing visual connections, by the simple process of collating many images from all of the existing movies into wonderful pairs, triplets, and sometimes, much larger groupings, based on the apparent similarity of shot composition, character facial expression, ship design, lighting choices -- you name it. It's a Star Wars buffet of surreal, epochal frame-freezes. In 2007, this site's MissPadme also birthed the "Star Wars Prequel Appreciation Society", a wonderful blog that gives a voice to prequel fans worldwide (those with an Internet connection, anyhow), bringing them all sorts of prequel-related tidbits, with weekly updates from far and wide, and an accompanying commentary section, which normally gets populated by a few of the keener (more vocal) prequel fans; I've posted comments there on occasion, myself. Wonderful stuff.

Books? Darn. The last paragraph was meant to be about books. Yes, a brief (!!) word on books: how blessed we are to live in the time that we do! This has been an AMAZING period for Star Wars fans, whether you love the prequels, absolutely detest them, or have perfected total indifference to their existence. Just look at the "Making Of" books for the original trilogy movies by Jonathan Rinzler. How can any committed fan refuse those fabulous volumes? They're fantastic! Another lavish book project -- which I still don't have yet, I must admit (alas, money is frequently tight for me) -- is Lucas' personal "Star Wars Frames", a book in which he hand-picked, over a two-year period, 1,416 frames, some obvious, many unusual, then juxtaposed them, side-by-side (two per double-page spread, or 708 "sets" of frames, in the original and ultra-expensive "collector's edition"; four per double-page spread, or 354 "sets" of frames, or quadratics, in the vastly cheaper "mass market" version). It is, quite plainly, a remarkable work of art in its own right, fully celebrating the saga through an entirely visual means. In Lucas' own words, "my story is in the visuals". And look at all the other books that have hit the market, or are about to, including a comic-book version of Lucas' very first fully-fledged "Star Wars" screenplay! Forty years later and something you never thought you'd see becomes reality! Really, when you add the mind-boggling Disney sale and announcement of a sequel trilogy (!!!!!), there has never been a better time to be a fan of Lucas' little space-wizard fantasy.


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Blimey, O'Reilly. Still not finished. I just wanted to conclude with a few words about the films themselves, or my understanding of them. Yes, I love the prequels. They're absolutely some of my favourite movies; and just about my favourite high-concept movies, ever, ever, ever. If you wanted me to name films I love equally or more than the prequels, that's a bit tough, but they tend to be a lot lower budget, much quieter, and generally more ambient in nature. They would absolutely include, at the top of the heap, Sofia Coppola's wonderful chiasma of "Lost In Translation" and "Somewhere", two of the best films about being stranded in a hotel, ever! No, seriously, I ADORE those films; and I really admire the way they play off against each other (THIS is where they tickle my brain in ways I imagine the prequels also do -- rather uniquely). Another recent film that snuck up on me is Kiyoshi Kurosawa's "Tokyo Sonata", which I just about regard as the most perfect movie ever made. It speaks to me in all sorts of ways. But the prequels somehow carve out their own niche -- make it a sinkhole planet of niches (Utapau: AH!) -- with their ebullient pop thrills, their operatic sweep, and their awesome meta-construction. The prequels to me, I guess, are both very obvious, and incredibly weird. No wonder I like 'em. But again, seriously, if nothing else, there is something stupendously wondrous about them. It's like admiring scaffolding; only the most pristine, pretty, and splendidly-decorated scaffolding in the whole world. They're less stories, more experiences. But they're also stories. What I mean by that odd tension is, the story is paramount, but it emerges as much through mode and subtle tonality as it does all the big brushstrokes and loud 'splosions that people tend to focus more of their time -- and rancour -- over. In that sense, these are very big and interesting movies, and BY FAR the most worthy undertaking (for me) in an increasingly-cramped (and stifling) big-budget action-picture arena.

The prequels -- they're just so bold. And as DarthEddie said the other day, they don't really care if you like them or not, reflecting (I might now add) the wily eccentricity of their stubborn and tenacious maker.


* * *


So, one way and another, I feel I've been on a very big journey here. Like any, it's had its up and downs, its frustrations and its consolations, and I wouldn't go back and alter one second of it.

 

Jumping the gun.

The PT era cannot end until the opening crawl begins in the next one.

Careful you must be when being mindful of the TOS.

 

Uh, not really. In TPM, Ki-Adi-Mundi says that the Sith were extinct and Mace says that they couldn't come back without their knowing it. In ROTS, Mace says that the oppression of the Sith will never return. In all six films, the Jedi want to eliminate the Sith in order to stop them. There's even a prophecy which says that balance to the Force will come when the Chosen One destroys the Sith.

 

I remember seeing the OT in one sitting only a few months before TPM was released. (My brother-in-law was a fan and realized I didn't have a clue what he was talking about.) I remember it being awesome, fun, and entertaining. I didn't really connect with Luke but I really, really loved Leia. Despite this, I can say with certainty that what really hooked me and would later send me looking at meta and message boards was the end of ESB. It was the discovery that the hero father became the villain. He was later redeemed and it became clear that there was this big untold story sitting behind his fall. Because of this and because I didn't have the time to come up with many unmet expectations, the prequel era was everything I wanted.

The prequels made the GFFA bigger and more majestic. It added depth to characters I didn't previously care about (Obi-Wan, Yoda, Palpatine) and introduced ones that were like the building blocks of the characters in the OT (Padme, Bail, Shmi). AOTC gave us the clones of the Clone Wars. The EU gave them names and personalities as well as going into the moral ambiguity of a clone army. For better and worse, the Jedi changed from faceless guardians of light to flawed humans. The PT gave the birth of the empire in one of the most chilling scenes of the saga. Most importantly to me, the movies and a lot of the EU built up Anakin Skywalker, the man who would be Darth Vader. That was the character I connected to and it felt like I saw both the magnificence and the corruption of the Old Republic and the Jedi Order through him. I came away from the prequel not only loving it but also being able to love and appreciate the OT in a way I hadn't before.

On one hand, I am going to miss this era. It's the one I grew up with and the one that permanently hooked me. On the other hand, I'm interested in seeing where the ST takes us. The PT and the OT acted like a cause and effect. They were very closely linked with the next generation having to deal with the fallout from the first. I don't know what the ST will be. Will old enemies and old issues make a comeback? Are they getting inherited trouble? Or is the ST a new birth?

 

To each there own, Sinister. The specifics still lack hugely.

 

Cryogenic , wonderful post as always. I seriously think you could revise and publish parts of that post on a blog (io9, perhaps?) as a well written, if possibly contrarian, reflection on what the PT era was.

Something stuck in my mind during the middle section of your post: "The opposite of love is indifference". That's well known as a Lumineers lyric, but it's been a common saying before that, particularly in the pastor circuit and similar settings. If there is one feeling that the Prequels consistently fail to elicit from viewers and from the film community at large, it's indifference. People are passionate about these films. In a wierd way, all of us love them. There is "something" about these films that elicits the crazy reaction they do. About a year ago I saw the horror film Thinner. It was bad, and mostly forgettable. Writing anything more than "it was mediocre at best" would be a pointless excercise. Only a very special kind of film could fill someone with a passion to produce a feature-length pseudo-comedic deconstruction all for the sake of detailing every single perceived flaw of the film. Note how all of the non-Star Wars reviews done by Mr. Plinkett are only about a third of the length (if that) of his sprawling Phantom Menace review. Movies that are just "bad" don't get this kind of treatment. And the guy who made the similarly lengthy "If the prequels were good" videos? Few people would ever make a "If Thinner was good" video on youtube. If they did, nobody would watch it. George Lucas has made films that ignite peoples imaginations and get them talking, both positively and negatively. That's a rare feat.

 

io9? Gah, no.

But thank you for the compliment!

Nice thread, too, by the way.

It's a curious phenomenon. It honestly does feel like it needs a word or term.

The whole thing. Not just the aspect that could be construed as pathological. Everything.

It's an art movement involving, at the very least, tens of thousands of people, each feeling the need to say something, anything, if only to be heard.

Why these movies? And why for so long and in so many ways?

The RLM dissection -- or vivisection -- doesn't stop at just the 70-minute YouTube review. There was also an audio commentary done for the 3D release in 2012. Crazy stuff.

There is need to look upon the prequels as a thing, an objet d'art, worthy of admiration or staunch criticism. This, in turn, weirdly, has made them into some sort of social object, or vortex, into which people contribute much of their emotional energy; and a lot of their time, too. Their time. Assuming they own time and time doesn't own them.

Okay, too abstruse, am I getting, now. Learn soon, to stop talking like Yoda, I must.

 

Cinema. That's what it meant to me, what I took away from it: new, ever-broadening ideas about cinema, many of which range from unconventional to eccentric to esoteric--hidden in the plain sight that is this commercial pop-art Franken-freak-bananas monstrosity called Ss..Starr..Wwh-War... the Star War-zz. Star Wars.

It sparked, or at least expanded exponentially, my interest, fascination and adoration for Lucas as an abstract, conceptual storyteller and audiovisualist; for filmmaking technology; for theories about cognitive imagery, mini-narratives, irony & absurdism; and for the unique value of aesthetics regarding pulps, B-movies, soap opera, radio drama and melodrama in general. It also fulled my inner-childlike, daydreaming imagination about the fictional universe in question, thereby doubling the whimsies that began with the OT. Oh, and speaking of which, lastly...

It long since returned me, repeatedly, to The Original Trilogy with a whole new level of engagement regarding all the reasons mentioned above. I'm in my 30s. I grew up with those films. I loved them for being there when I was a kid, and for being so much fun. But it wasn't until the Prequels that I fully began to grasp, appreciate and further study them to the same extent.




"Activate ray shields!"

"No reward is worth this."

 

For better or worse, it meant George Lucas telling his story the way in which he wanted to tell it.