Is the PT underappreciated

It's completely underappreciated. Most filmmakers would be in extacy if they could make movies these good and have them considered lacking. There's been fanboy jerks whine about SW ever since the beginning, they just didn't have the internet then. The PT is Pretty Tremendous to me.

 

before i start, let me say that i absolutely love the OT and the PT (so far) equally.

when time magazine ran its ATOC special last may it ran a review of ESB from the early 80's and if you think the critics were harsh to the PT movies it's nothing compared to the slam that they gave what most poeple consider to be the jewel of the OT crown.
this review of ESB gave digs at subpar acting, a thin contrived plot, too much reliance of FX, etc., etc., etc., whatever.

the fact is most of star wars' fan base is made up of males that were children when the OT came out (myself included).
we've had 20 years to grow up with, memorize, and love these 3 movies.

now my 3 year old son is a PT FANATIC.
do you think he cares natalie portman's performance is called "wooden and uninspired" by critics, or that there may be some minor plot holes between III and IV? hell no! he thinks ani and ob1 are 2 of the the coolest guys in the universe and wants to be jango fett when he grows up.

he's going to grow up with the PT just like most of us did with the OT - and memorize, and love and be able to ignore the minor plot inconsistancies with these 3 movies just like we did 20 years ago... and in the future when one of GL's sons decides he wants to do episodes VII, VIII & IX (bet on it - it's a cash COW) i'm sure on a messageboard somewhere 20 years from now some guy'll be complaining that the new trilogy sucks and they don't have any great stand out characters like jar jar binks anymore. *i had to cringe when i wrote that*

 

Yes, it's underappreciated.
Some people don't understand what Lucas is doing.
Something that nobody did before ... !

 

I think too many fans OVERAPPRECIATE the films, not just the PT, but other genre films.

Example:
There's a lot of depth in Robocop, and there is a lot of subtle messages there (The Criteron Commentary is awesome for this!), but people realized that Robocop 2 and Robocop 3 sucked!
Sure, I'll bet some ingrate thinks that Robocop 2 & 3 are the pinnacle of storytelling and add depth to the themes presented in the first film, but if they really understood the first film, then they would realize how much of a hot, steaming pile of poodoo the sequels were.

Sorry, but from my standpoint, I don't think that the PT has had a better story and characters than what was in the OT.
Effects are irrelevant, actors/acting techniques are irrelevant, excuses on the part of the filmmaker are irrelevant, sit down and read the scripts, the OT was a better story.

Oops, that last paragraph was sarcasm free.. obviously, I don't expect it to attract any attention or be understood by others that have Basher Vision*.


*Basher Vision: a condition where people automatically feel the need to defend the PT based on the username attached to the comments without reading said comments or even taking the time to process them logically.

 

i agree with you punisher, in the fact that the OT has a stronger story line. it was very straightforward and focused much more on the characters than the scenery or how many different aliens we can jam into the background.
and i'm not using this as a cop out but i think once all of the pieces are put together in this PT, it's going to have a much larger scope than anyone is expecting.
i'm betting alot of poeple are going to have to go back and watch TPM again after it's all been told.

 

"Sadly, the PT is completely underappreciated by a large number of fans."

Well IMO, the PT, especially TPM has been nothing but a huge disappointment, not worthy of being appreciated. The OT has stood the test of time and has been beloved for over 25 years now. I can guarantee in 25 more years, the PT will have faded away from memory. Well at least TPM. I actually liked AOTC, but it's already begun to fade a bit. Let's hope Episode III can restore my (and a lot of other fan's) faith in GL!

ps. this is not meant to be an all out bash on the PT. I just believe that as far as story, character development and Plot go, the OT is vastly superior.

 

I think that the prequel trilogy is so underrated that it's almost rediculous to even bring up people's opinions of it's value on these boards.

Three months before TPM came out, I decided to watch ANH, ESB, and ROTJ for the first time. I loved them. Really, really enjoyed them...couldn't wait for TPM. You know what happened when I saw Episode I? It became my favorite in the series, and, I'm proud to say, it still is to this day.

I'm no moron. I know that the reason Phantom Menace is so great to me is because, while it is a good Star Wars movie, my love for it really has more to do with the fact that I was a teenager when the HYPE for that thing came BLASTING IN from all directions than it does with that movie being the greatest film ever made or anything like that.

The problems that most people have with the PT, in my opinion, are two fold. First, the OT was a sci-fi trilogy. Gadgets and gizmos, space pirates and intergalactic "evil doers" are what brought alot of the original fans back to the theaters over and over again way back in 1977. Beginning with ROTJ, though, it seemed that Lucas had really adopted his current "mythmaking" agenda, and, perhaps NOT so coincidentally, ROTJ is widely regarded as the WORST of the OT. The second problem that people have with the PT is that they look at it as a seperate entity. It's not. In fact, the only reason I'll even label the trilogies as TRILOGIES at all is because that's what we happen to be discussing, in this forum. In actuallity, it ought to be called an unfinished sixology (WTF?) of which are still missing just one part. TPM and AOTC represent, relatively, the first 30 or 40 minutes of the STAR WARS movie, if you imagine it being condensed down to one standard length film. Of course they're slow and explanitory and not very exciting at alot of points...they're just setting up the end...the exciting part, you know...the exciting conclusion...what's it called? Oh yeah, "The Original Trilogy."

Anyway, my point is, I like the PT...alot...it's my favorite of the *two*. But I'm not a sci-fi fan...I'm an epic fan. If I liked things like Bladerunner and stuff, and had I been there for the hype of ESB, I'd probably feel differently, too.

 

Let me just add that a lot of the things that people appreciate about the PT are pointless without the OT.

Many of the parallels and allusions to other themes, situations, etc. in the storyline would fall flat on their own.
The humor wouldn't mean a thing in some cases. Examples:
"Spinning is a good trick."
Without ANH and Vader spinning off into space, why would that be funny?
Without the Asteroid chase in TESB, the "cleverness" of Boba witnessing the chase of Obi-Wan through an asteroid field wouldn't exist!

Other things that bug me:

People can say how cool Jango is, but I think Jango's coolness is based on the fact that Boba Fett is just a glorified extra.
Jango is cool because he did the things that G.L. DIDN'T do with Boba! Boba Fett IS the biggest disappointment in the OT!

Anakin is supposed to be soo awesome since he's the "Chosen One", but Luke was a much more effective hero/warrior/Padawan than Anakin was.
Luke wasn't even a real Jedi, yet he almost took Jabba's organization down single-handedly, Anakin couldn't even rescue Obi-Wan, he just walks down a hallway with Padme and gets his butt captured, no plan, nothing and he's had MORE training than Luke!
Sorry, but a lot of the stuff in the PT is stupid, IMHO.

The PT depends on the OT much more than the OT has to depend on the PT.

I don't doubt that Ep.3 won't expand on the concepts, characters and situations of the other Prequel films, but people need to look at the ORIGINAL Prequel elements we have, not homages to the other SW films or any other previous works of G.L. that are IN the Prequels.
It's many of these elements that are rather lacking to me.

 

Sure, I'll bet some ingrate thinks that Robocop 2 & 3 are the pinnacle of storytelling

You clearly don't know what the word "ingrate" means. An ingrate is a person that is showing no gratitude where gratitude is due. Get a dictionary and look it up. If you can manage it.

Whose the moron now?

-JDR.

 

I'm having fun with you, Ripper. You felt the need to use the word so I used it to bait you.
Easy to provoke you are.

You can't even discuss the points I raised, you just try to insult me for the incorrect use of your word.
I'm sure you detest those that aren't 110% completely loyal to the PT... why don't you just post that and then go play with your knives.

Actually, why don't you get checked out for "Basher Vision" first, then go play with you knives.

EDIT: BTW, I realize that the username is not a reference to the Jack the Ripper, but since my ignorance upsets you so, I'll continue to use it in order to piss you off.


-BBC

 

^Maybe it is time to stop this stupid game. I'll settle to agree to disagree. You are quite welcome to continue being a complete ******, if it pleases you.

BTW, I would NEVER stoop to actually watching RoboCop's pathetic sequels. I find that by far MOST sequels are crap compared to the original film, but I do not find that to be the case with Star Wars AT ALL. Every film has impressed and entertained me so far. If that makes you feel smugly superior because you only liked the first two films, you are welcome to it. I did read your arguments, but most of the points you attempted to make were insulting.

-JDR.

JMT Edit - Watch the language and flaming please.

 

You are good!
"I'm an *******" by Denis Leary is one of my favorite songs. I think I'll make that my new "Official" theme song!
My previous "Official" them song was "Dirty White Boy" by Foreigner, if anyone was curious.


Not everything about the Robocop sequel was a waste... the Robocop 2 design was pretty cool, in fact the Super Battle Droids kinda reminded me of that.
Phil Tippett's crew did some great stop motion animation. It's too bad the story was weak, the villians sucked and the score was too upbeat.

Well, all of the SW films' have their moments of grandeur, but I won't attempt to go into that.

Have fun! Hope to see ya 'round the boards, Ripper!
(No, I didn't mean that like it reads... I don't think you are a chronic farter.)

-RPG

 

The prequels aren't underappreciated ENOUGH. The prequels are to the original trilogy what Highlander II-IV are to Highlander. It deserves all the bashing it can get and then some. Darth Maul is about the only redeeming quality to be found. Of doom.

 

Yeah, but Highlander 2 is so bad it is genius. Watch it with Battlefield Earth and you'll never have a funnier evening's entertainment.

 

The original Highlander film was pretty bad in its own right so it didn't take a whole lot for the sequels to be worse.

Frankly, the prequels get respect at the one place it truly matters: the box office! I say that's the only place that matters because as long as the movies make money, Lucas can keep making movies. People can say all the nasty stuff about Lucas and his movies that they want just as long as they keep buying movie tickets and DVD's.

What really burns Lucas' critics is just how margainal their opinions really are. They write editorials, scatching reviews, bitch-fests on internet forums, and yet the movies continue to be wildly successful and immensely popular, and there's not a damn thing they can do about it. Like I said, as long as they keep supporting the movies with their wallets, let 'em gripe. It's a beatiful thing, ain't it?

 

I'm a PT fanatic (check out my previous post) but that's not really a fair argument, Durwood. On the flip-side, if the PT had made no money, you'd defend it because you like it, true?

Besides, there's no reason to go to that age-old argument when there are SO MANY other GREAT ones that prove that the Prequel triology is underrated.

And Darth Maul, I thought, represented everything people COMPLAINED about in the PT. He's only around for like, an hour, says one, as of right now (pre Ep3), completely irrelevant line of dialogue, then gets chopped in half by a young Obi-Wan Kenobi, never to be seen or heard of again. I thought it rocked, but I thought OT fans HATED that "lack of development and depth."

I probably assume too much.

 

Excuse me! But I believe you were the first to refer to certain people as ingrates in this thread!

ingrate=ungrateful. That is not the same as stupid, moron, unintelligent, etc...

 

They're not unappreciated by me

 

I feel that TPM by itself was a great movie. If GL made TPM first instead of ANH...I'd still be a Star Wars fan.

 

I'm a PT fanatic (check out my previous post) but that's not really a fair argument, Durwood. On the flip-side, if the PT had made no money, you'd defend it because you like it, true?

It's a perfectly fair argument because the prequels have made a great deal of money. Trying to argue my position if they hadn't any money is an unfair argument because it would force to me debate something that isn't rather than what is. So if you don't mind, I'll let the matter rest with the facts on my side.

 

I have issues with the prequels. I find them to be lacking in several areas and not as good as I wanted them to be or the originals. I still enjoy them although I cannot help but think how great they could have been.

Having said that, I do think they are under appreciated. They are still a cut above your average blockbuster and the imagination and creativity(borrowed or otherwise) is astounding. When they are good, they are excellent. When they suck, they are quite cringe worthy. But that's just me. I do feel that there is an almost evangelical zeal with which a small number of the media try to bring them down though. The fact is that a lot of people love them. A lot of people aren't impressed in the slightest and a vocal minority absolutley detests them. Often when the media writes about the prequel they focus on that minority as if that view point is unanimous, which is just not true. I will slag off certain things about the prequels all day long but even as a potential basher, the negativity is over the top. Having said that, the one-eyed praise that goes on also seems OTT to me sometimes. However, that stays on these boards and never gets reported. It's quite one-sided as far as the media is concerned.

At the end of the day though, all that matters is your own opinion.

Mark Hamill was being interviewed for sixty minutes before TPM was released and he talked about the OT too. He said that for everybody that loved it there was somebody that hated it. It's hard not to see why. It's the whole einstein thing. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. A lot of the negativity is reactionary. People are fed up with having SW rammed down their throats and become sick of it. They switch off and go the other way.

I think this will happen with LOTR to a certain extent. It is universally acclaimed but I think some people are starting to get fed up with the whole love in that surrounds it. It's not obvious yet, but by the end I think some will be bored. It's the law of diminishing returns and if it or any other franchise is still universally appreciated at five sequels then I would be surprised. That's not an excuse to turn this into a LOTR debate.

 

Since you brought it up, I have a feeling that people will become a bit disenchanted by the time The Return Of The King rolls around. The media trying to maintain a fever pitch of hype for three years straight may become too much for the general public (just as people have long grown weary of the media's seemingly constant negative attacks on Star Wars.) But that's just my opinion. I still like the movies, but I think if the media keeps up the push, people may "rebel" and not see the third movie simply because they're going to get sick of journalists telling them they have to like it. The reverse may also be true for Star Wars. People will get so fed up with the media telling them to hate Star Wars that they could very well make Episode III the most successful Star Wars film ever.

 

That would be quite funny.