ST Is the Resistance Plot Underestimated?

So much is made of the Force plot developments in TLJ (and rightfully so).

But does anyone else find themselves enjoying the Resistance plot just as much, if not more?

As the film settles in my bones, it is the Resistance plot, and it's characters, that shine brighter, and burrow deeper.

From the major players, Leia, Poe, Finn, Rose, the strong support in DJ and Holdo, to the minor ones, like D'Arcy, Paige and Connix, the scrappy, fight-till-your-very-last-breath Resistance is the dark horse of the TLJ. It's classic Star Wars, the out numbered underdogs who are scraping by on their wits, dogged determination, heart and prayers.

Do you think the Resistance plot is underestimated?

 

That’s a better way of thinking about it. As opposed to each plot grouping individually.

It’s Force plot and Resistance plot.

Finn and Rose are part of the Resistance plot but the wild ambitions and hope for a last chance undetected retreat. Poe and Holdo is a showdown of will with the ultimate surprise of fight from a character previously thought might be cowardly. They come together and are related to the Resistance’s final stand. As is Rey trying to get Luke to become the inspiration the galaxy needs. All 3 efforts are last chance attempts as the Resistance faces such dire circumstances and all 3 (except for Holdo obviously) combine for the final stand on Crait where the call for aid to the outer rim finally went out.

 

I've always preferred the Force plots in the Star Wars and in Legends and that still remains true for me here. I enjoyed TLJ in its entirety, but I do think the "Resistance" plot is where it is weakest.

 

I loved it! The Force plot was something predicted so long ago it was expected, but the Resistance plot was one crazy twist and turn and shocking discovery after another! I was highly invested in it! Finn/Rose/DJ and Leia/Poe/Holdo were my favs!

 

The pros about the Resistance plot as we're calling it in this thread: Opening space battle is great. Also, smart use of Rose's sister to already give us a connection to Rose before we even meet her. I like how Kylo didn't fire on the bridge. I like how Leia is used - no issues with that at all, beautifully done. I like how Poe is developed. The smack across the face is great. Holdo sacrifice is great.

The cons about the Resistance plot: It's so distanced feeling. This is not our heroes together fighting for their lives in trash compactor yuck or swinging across Death Star chasms This is not the relentless pursuit of the Falcon in Empire. It's more like "if you see Rey before I do, tell her this message". Blah. Or long distance transmissions on the way back from Canto Bight just to relay between Poe and Finn how things are going. Blah. So detached, so lacking in emotion. I just can't get around the decision to send our new torchbearers of the saga on three separate paths, instead of how AotC and ESB did only two paths. I understand Rey being gone part of the time but Poe and Finn needed to be together. If only their problems could have been solved without having to go to some side distance planet or having some tacked on cartoon conversation with Maz - especially for the plan to not work anyways and blow apart in their faces. There's simply not enough time of our torchbearers rubbing elbows together for us to like them together. No wonder people have a hard time accepting Luke, Leia, and Han passing the torch to Rey, Finn, and Poe. We need more Rey, Finn, and Poe, all in together, dealing with conflict and developing as characters together. Episode IX will hopefully hit the ground running on this to make up for lost time.

About to see it a third time soon, we'll see what speaks to me this time...

 

Interesting that you find the Resistance plot lacking in emotion. I feel literally the total opposite. I don't think I've ever felt for the cause of the Resistance/Rebellion to the degree that I do in TLJ. It finally feels personal to me. I know that RO really humanized the Rebellion for some people, but I wasn't one of them. TLJ managed to do what RO couldn't for me.

Also Rey, Finn and Poe aren't the new "big 3". There is no SW equivalent of that in the PT, or so far in the ST. The major new characters in TFA were Rey, Finn and Kylo; Poe was little more than a glorified Wedge. He has an expanded role in TLJ, but so far this ST hasn't set up a new "Big 3" that needs to adventure together.

Each film has totally separate groups of co-adventurers.

 

To be honest RotJ had a similar issue. I don't think they knew what to do with Leia and Han (especially Han) and they ended up being overshadowed GREATLY by Luke/Vader/Palpatine. There was just no contest. That vs...Ewoks and incompetent stormtroopers? No way.

I think for TLJ, Rian wasn't entirely sure what to do with them. When you think about it, the entire Resistance plot is literally, "We're running out of gas."

Had Holdo simply told Poe what the plan was, then maybe they could've focused more time on Finn being back in the FO, and give him (and Phasma) some more development that way. I mean, Finn never even gets his hands on a blaster. That could've been a great time to see his skills as a stormtrooper highlighted (even the BTS vid had Rose doing some melee combat and ducking from cover to cover with a blaster rifle).

Seriously though, make it where the Resistance needs to buy itself some time to get to Crait. They say they have to somehow disable or damage the Supremacy (Walkers, Weapons, Etc.) and that it's basically a suicide mission. Finn volunteers, telling Poe "If I don't make it back, tell Rey..." that way it's a parallel to how Rey also has to put herself in the hands of the enemy. And this way Finn and Holdo have some interaction and Holdo tells Finn that Leia would be proud of him.

I liked Finn's dynamic with DJ but again it was so underused. Their discussion after Canto Bight about how even the Resistance is guilty of a few things was something interesting, and I soooo wish we got more of that. But the whole plot just felt like a whole lot of trouble for nothing since it ended up backfiring in the end. And all of it could've been avoided had Holdo not been so secretive for no reason.

So the way it stands for me personally is that, besides Finn's underused dynamic with DJ, and the all-too-short fight with Phasma, the Resistance plot in TLJ was a complete dud. It was a lot of HOOPLA *brick* for nothing.

That's why I hope that Episode IX shows our heroes working together for once. As a proper team that relies on each other's individual skillsets to stay alive.

 

I love the Resistance plot. For me, the chase is one of the most interesting story ideas seen in Star Wars. It isn't exciting and quick, but instead has a palpable sense of slow impending doom. Not only does it give these characters something to do but it traps and pushes them in directions they would never have otherwise gone to. We would never have seen this desperate, out of the loop and X-wing less Poe who's still determined to do something rather than sit on his hands. We would never have seen Rose and Finn meet up, and decide to enact a plan that would ultimately bring them together in a way that neither expected. We would never see Finn truly accept a role in the Resistance, versus just being around because that's where Rey is.

Finally, what really sells it for me is when we see the ships running out of fuel and being destroyed. There is no surrender possible. It's run or die.

Personally, I've always found stories where characters are helpless against slow death really appealing, it speaks to my fears going all the way back to watching Krull as a kid.

 

And this is why it's quickly becoming my favorite Resistance/Rebellion plot of the entire film saga.

TESB crawl teases the following:

It is a dark time for the Rebellion. Although the Death Star has been destroyed, Imperial troops have driven the Rebel forces from their hidden base and pursued them across the galaxy.

TESB shows us the end point of that pursuit. TLJ lets us see that pursuit in progress. And I love it.

The more I think about it, the more layers I'm able to peel back. There's a lot going on, with a lot of characters. Especially when you realize that more than half of TLJ's airtime is dedicated to the Resistance plot.

 

I like the limping fleet idea. But I think it's underdeveloped by a rewrite or two. It needs more cat and mouse and fewer diversions to casino planets. It would be better, I think if Finn and either Poe or Rose infiltrated Supremacy, where his/their knowledge of maintenance routines would give them a way to help the fleet make the jump to hyperspace.

 

It's not quite working for me. Maybe after I've viewed the movie several more times, the blocks will go away in my mind.

Spoiler: negativity

I get caught up in the campy comic relief presentation of the FO which to me undermines any heroics on the part of the Resistance. I get caught up with the slow chase through space which I think better villains would have done a better job with but these villains are dumb. I get caught up by how long it takes Holdo to do something about the FO shooting down the transports one-by-one (and WHY is it one-by-one?). I found Poe really unlikeable in his interactions with Holdo. The part where he kicks things around on the bridge and doesn't even figure out why Holdo is fueling the transports before shouting at her and so on, I was just done with his character. Poe's heroics just kind of annoyed me overall. I felt like Rose really detracted from Finn's development in the sense that he cannot be independent with her telling him what to do and what to think. For instance, when Rose talks about how she and her sister grew up on a poor mining planet and what the FO did to them, where is Finn's story? I know he was too young to remember, but surely he has thought about how he was taken from his family and what the FO took from him. That's one reason why Rose's story is moving to him because he knows all too well. But he says NOTHING. I think that Finn is a person who processes things like this to himself (he's a good listener), but still I needed more Finn (so I'm blaming Rose... um). Phasma was really dull again so I wasn't feeling anything about Finn vs. Phasma, Round 2. I wasn't feeling Finn's fear about returning to the awful FO either. I agree that's the hardest thing his character can be put through, but I can't FEEL it when I'm watching.

All this aside, some things I really liked:

- Finn vs. DJ. I was really interested in all of their interactions and I found myself wanting more.

- DJ in general. I really loved his character since he has these contradictions. I think he really wanted to help Finn and Rose. And he was happy to make Rose happy when he gave her the necklace back. But his other side is there too, and it's his dominant side--he has no loyalty whatsoever. He wants to help these sweet kids (he LIKES them) but only if it all works out for him. His self-preservation is always #1 priority.

- There were some really magical moments on Canto Bight, like Finn and Rose on the space horse on the beach. I mean a lot of Canto Bight was pretty cool. I can't say that I wasn't entertained. I'm glad it was in the movie. It's beautiful.

- Paige's death was incredible. The desperation as she is kicking the ladder trying to get the remote to fall. Her knowing that this is the end and touching the necklace. The way the ship falls into the flames. I cry every time. I really don't want Paige to die, but I know it serves the story. And without it I would feel less about how the entire bomber squad was lost.

- The dreadnought was awesome looking if nothing else!

- The Supremacy was incredible looking and the scene when Holdo rams it was incredible.

- I liked Holdo, I just felt something was missing and I can't put my finger on it. I loved her good bye with Leia (I could see they had been friends for years, I could see her devotion to Leia).

- How determined Rose is. I loved her tenacity.

- BB-8 was wonderful. I can see an argument it was a bit over-the-top, but I don't care! I loved how BB-8 doesn't want to admit to helping DJ steal that ship. What a little imp.

- The animals. The crystal foxes were my favorites. I loved how they were running into the base (from the dark side) and how they hung out with the people in the base (I love stories with human/non-human-animal alliances). The space horses were all identical which bugged me, but I thought maybe they were actually all clones, which would make sense. I mean Canto Bight is all about things that are artificial. The porgs vs. Chewie was cute. And thankfully the porgs weren't in the movie too much--I feel it was just the right amount.

- Finn's sacrifice scene was beautiful even though I couldn't fully feel the emotion behind it from Finn's POV.

- I did like the way Finn tricked Phasma to win and then called himself "Rebel scum."

- Hux started having some great moments after he wasn't dumb anymore. His IQ increased for the end of the movie. The way he called Kylo Supreme Leader, dripping with sarcasm... How even though Kylo was abusing him every turn, he still tried to reign in his impulses, such as calling an end to firing every weapon on Luke (which Hux clearly thought was stupid and unnecessary from the beginning). His nasty scheming look as he watched Kylo at the end. "He was actually telling the truth! Will wonders never cease" from earlier, was a great line too.

- I loved Tallie. And I wish she had survived the film as I would love to see her in IX. She was organized and competent. She reminded me a lot of Wedge.

- Poe loves Leia and I could see that very clearly. I could also see that Leia considers Poe like a son just about. This to me was the salvation for the character. He will do anything for Leia (except obey her orders... *ahem*). And really Leia and Holdo encourage him as much as they discourage him, so it's on them too. And I'm sure that come IX he'll be a better leader than he was in VIII. And I mean honestly, had they not taken out the dreadnought in the beginning they would have been toast later. It would have been able to hit them with its cannons for sure. It would have been able to hit the Crait base. So as much as Poe did the wrong thing, it was actually in the end the right thing in terms of outcomes. And in Star Wars I always see the Force in all the scenes, and I think Poe can thank the Force for his exceptional piloting abilities and some of his impulses are in line with it. Anyway watching Leia and Poe made me ache about Leia and Ben. And I liked that because it helps create the sense of loss that really depressed me on my first viewing! (that's not sarcasm - as the loss is meaningful) In a way Poe and Kylo are mirrors and it's interesting.

Anyway that was all very jumbled and I'm sure I'll work through my negativity eventually. I think that some of it actually makes sense in the story but I've not seen it yet maybe?

 

@oncafar I loved your list.

You sure you hated the Resistance plot LOL?

 

I think separating them helped us see how they handled their challenges well and better separated their traits and the ending of VIII suggests more of what you’re saying (more team up and together moments like the end) are probably coming.

Rey and Kylo Ren will be separated in IX. Just as Vader and Luke eventually are.

 

I dig the characters and what the go through and everything. There’s good development with Poe and others. With that being said, I don’t know if I can grasp the resistance being where it is and what it’s become with so few members after all of this time. I guess I’ll have to read the aftermath trilogy and see if it changes my perception, but always thought the Republic/Resistance would be much better off than what they were. Also didn’t like how no one came for their signal. But I get they wanted to give Luke the Solo spotlight.

 

So what was the reason that the first order couldn’t speed up or come in from the front side to attack the resistance ships?

 

The peripheral material delves further into the state of the galaxy, and the position that the Republic, FO and Resistance are in.

But the Resistance is essentially a militia. The Republic has a fleet that the FO considers a threat, but apparently much of it was destroyed in TFA. 3P0 says in TFA, after Hosian Prime is obliterated, that without the Republic Fleet they're doomed. And the FO is far more organized, and militarily possible, than the Republic imagines.

So the fleet was either destroyed, or the Republic was so devastated by the Starkiller attack that things are in too much disarray for them to mount a counter attack. Remember that what we're seeing in TLJ is literally hours removed from the FO literally destroying the entire Republic seat of government.

 

I think Rey, Finn and Poe are clearly the big 3. Remember how it cuts to Poe with Leia and 3-PO behind his shoulder as Luke is telling Kylo "The Rebellion is reborn" then we cut to close-up of Finn "the war is just beginning" and Luke finishes telling Kylo as we see Rey having freed everyone from the mines "and I am not the Last Jedi". Or does he say "and I will not be the Last Jedi"? Whichever one he says, it's clear the torch is being passed onto Poe, Finn, and Rey.

As for a SW equivalent of that in the PT, it's Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Padme, and yes that triangle has it's own issues, that's why I rate TLJ, AotC, and RotS as my least favorite SW films.

 

Poe was not established as being part of the "Big 3" in TFA.

He just officially gets introduced to Rey at the very end of TLJ.

This is structurally a different kind of trilogy from the OT. There is no "Big 3" equivalent.

The "Big 3" was about a trio of adventurers who became family. It was about the chemistry, the closeness, of this amazing little gang. That just isn't a part of the ST or the PT, on the whole.

 

In the films no. I mean Poe doesn’t meet Rey until the end of TLJ, comics aside. I think going forward though, they are the big 3 in the resistance working together, where we will see that chemistry get better, TLJ didn’t focus on that chemistry.

Even the logo art had the three of them together.

 

I can imagine them working together in IX, finally, sure. But that's too little, too late to have that Big 3 experience. Especially when Rey's path still seem deeply tied to Kylo and potentially building toward being a Jedi.

And Carrie's passing likely will leave Poe in the position of being occupied with leading the new Rebellion.

What of FinnRose?

I'm not sure there will be narrative room for an adventure featuring Rey/Finn/Poe.

 

I disagree. TFA opens with Poe. Poe and Finn have a great bond form very early on in TFA. Then we get proxy Poe through his droid BB-8 with Finn and Rey. When Poe shows back up to fight the First Order at Maz's Castle, it's fist pumping great and so is his air support on Starkiller. Yeah, it's not the greatest use of his character for him to be missing in the middle of the movie, nor is it a similar structure to the OT, but it still works enough in TFA. It's too bad Poe doesn't meet Rey until the end of TLJ. But I understand Rey is off doing the Kylo/Luke thing. What I don't understand is why it had to be written in such a way that Poe and Finn have to separate and send Finn on some crazy Maz inspired mission to Canto Bight in hopes of a master codebreaker. How could the decision to juggle writing and developing three paths at once have been an efficient one? AotC and ESB stick with two paths, going three ways waters down the emotional effectiveness, that's my problem with the Resistance plot as it is.

 

DJ made this section of film work, for me. Such a mesmerising performance.

 

Certainly much more than meh and also better than OK but the force plot is where the excellence lies for me.

I'd say the Resistance plot is good.