Is there any music you consider "evil"?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Amphitheatre' started by Coolguy4522, Jun 9, 2002.

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  1. TheVioletBurns Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2002
    star 4
    'Religious Rock/Pop', eh? Well, some people put The Violet Burning in that label, but I guarantee you if you heard them the stereotype would be smashed instantly...

    I hate stereotypes...to heck with 'em. ;)

    Would you consider the Red Hot Chili Peppers Buddhist rock? ;)

    Okay, I'm done with this little tirade.
  2. JediLord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2000
    star 4
    Just b/c music is hateful does not make it evil. Here is a list of evil music performers, evil b/c they are demons:
    Ricky Martin- The AntiChrist. No human can shake a bon bon like that.

    Barbara Streisand- The Devil Herself.
  3. skawookiee Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2000
    star 4
    There is no style of music that is inherintly evil. The messages that people put into their music may or may not be evil.
  4. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    I agree that it's not the style of music. Like, I don't think loud music is evil. I think satanic, hateful lyrics are evil.

    Marilyn Manson.. deffinately evil.

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  5. DarthYama Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 4
    Goth music (the actual stuff I have, such as Anathema and Vast) is probably the least "Evil" (by your standards. Tool, which you would probably call pseudobuddhist rock, says that there are no absolutes, through song.) music I have ever heard.
  6. AutumnFett Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2002
    star 1
    GrandAdmiralPelleaon, I see exactly what you mean. And personally, I do see those songs as evil, as well as the people behind them.

    IMOHO...At the same time, I think actually, it's the result of those songs that is what constitues good or evil. It's according to how susceptible one is to suggestion. I'm not saying I'm not susceptible to some suggestions, but songs of hate would not make me change how I feel. I can make my own decisions, and do. Some people are sheep, and blindly follow the crowd... or whatever person is in power (or who appears to possess prestige) and is spewing that negative rhetoric. I believe that's when those songs would be considered truly evil, it would be their ability to mesmerize the weak-minded. I do believe those kinds of propoganda are dangerous.

    So where does freedom of speech come in? And who's to decide who can say what and when? (I just pictured Anakin talking to Padme in the meadow about the government...*laugh*)

    ugh.. It's all so confusing.

    It's kinda like which is more dangerous...the gun, or the person firing the gun?
    what makes the music? the instrument or the person playing the instrument?

  7. GrandAdmiralPelleaon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 6
    >>Just b/c music is hateful does not make it evil.<<

    There's a diference between random hate "I hate you you prick" lyrics and "I hate all blacks and Jews" hatefull lyrics.

    You dare say that this kind of music is not evil:

    Skrewdriver - Race and Nation
    I believe in the White race
    A race apart, we've got a mile start
    I believe in my country
    It's where I belong, it's where I'll stay

    (Chorus)
    For my Race and Nation
    (x4)

    This old nation's in the hand of fools
    Using people as political tools
    If you stand up and you say that they're wrong
    They'll put you inside, and say that's where you belong

    Something's got to change right now
    The White race is going down and how
    I'm not trying to depress you
    Because I believe, we're going to pull through
  8. Darth_SnowDog Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2001
    star 4
    Pellaeon: I wouldn't characterize the lyrics as evil... I'd characterize them as blatantly stupid.. .and anyone who takes them seriously, either as a fan or critic, is being stupid. At any rate, my parents never taught me "good" vs. "evil" music and yet I wouldn't be caught dead buying stupid crap like that. (I wouldn't be caught dead listening to Raffi or Barney crap, either, but that's another story...)

    TheVioletBurns:

    'Religious Rock/Pop', eh? Well, some people put The Violet Burning in that label, but I guarantee you if you heard them the stereotype would be smashed instantly...

    Well, I'm talking about the Jesus Rock types who try to make a rock song about Jesus, Mohammed, Krishna, or Buddha sound cool... which it doesn't. Furthermore, that kind of music is just... marketing. Precisely that. I don't find too many openly "Buddhist-rock" or "Hindu-rock" bands because they don't market their beliefs.

    I hate stereotypes...to heck with 'em.

    So do I... It really fries me when the Judeo-Christian world constantly depicts India as though it's "shrouded in the darkness" because it's predominantly Hindu and doesn't conform to the conservatism of western philosophy and religion.

    Would you consider the Red Hot Chili Peppers Buddhist rock?

    No... I don't see them writing songs about how great Siddharta is, or the eightfold path, or prancing around like the Baldwin brothers talking about how much we need to help the Dalai Lama this... the rainforest the next... and then the week after that preaching about those "poor" african countries (last time I checked, their autocracies and oligarchies are hoarding the wealth and resources) who keep starving because we send them more food instead of birth control.

    Anyway, I think religious rock/pop bands are "evil" (semantic exaggeration intended for comic effect) because they commercialize religion and try to package it like some sort of happy meal or something. Religion, environmentalism, eastern philosophy, etc... .all these things are becoming commercialized and canned in the western materialist mentality...

    "Welcome to God-in-the-Box?"

    "I'll have a Jesus Cola and two Moses Big Macs, please."

    "Thank you, place your money in the collection plate, pick up your blessings at the next window, and drive thru."
  9. GrandAdmiralPelleaon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 6
    >>Pellaeon: I wouldn't characterize the lyrics as evil... I'd characterize them as blatantly stupid.. .and anyone who takes them seriously, either as a fan or critic, is being stupid. At any rate, my parents never taught me "good" vs. "evil" music and yet I wouldn't be caught dead buying stupid crap like that. (I wouldn't be caught dead listening to Raffi or Barney crap, either, but that's another story...) <<

    The band that sings them MEANS what they say, there's a whole movement of those bands out there. Nazi Skinheads. ever heard of them?
  10. Darth_SnowDog Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2001
    star 4
    Pellaeon: I don't care if Barney means what he says. I wouldn't buy his albums.

    If we're talking about children... It's my responsibility to teach my kids how to think for themselves. I cannot control the actions of others. I can only control what I do... and I would like to think that I've done everything I could as a parent, were I a parent, to teach my kids how to think. Teaching them what to think isn't good enough.... because it's like teaching a kid to play one or two moves in chess without actually explaining the fundamentals of the game itself, and then expecting them to go through life without gaining the experience of wins and losses.

    Skinhead idiots can sing all they want about white supremacy... but we have laws dealing with people who inflict physical harm upon others. Blaming Nazi Skinhead bands for racism is as stupid as claiming the Catholic Church is the cause of pedophilia. Hate exists whether they create this music or not.

    Secondly, my views on white supremacy is that it is a severely misguided movement: Particularly that aspect of touting "Aryan values" or "Aryan supremacy."

    The members of the White Aryan Resistance, and Aryan Brotherhood, generally speaking, are anything but Aryan. My ancestors were Aryan... they did not go around thinking they were the master race. This is a perversion of history created by ignorant people, perpetuated by ignorant people.

    I cannot dictate what ignorant people think, what they listen to, what they watch, what they read. We cannot prevent an ignorant person from thinking about racism, because if they really want to pin their own shortcomings on someone else, which is what racism is designed to do (it preys on the stupid), they will find one way or another to create such a belief in their mind... be it Skinhead Music or a return to Torquemadian Catholicism... but we have laws that deal with how people act out that ignorance.
  11. DarthYama Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 4
    I think it's obvious that people who call themselves Aryan and wearing depictions of swastikas and preaching about their superiority are aiming to anger Indians. But that's a topic for another place...
  12. GrandAdmiralPelleaon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 6
    I doubt that Skrewdriver was aiming to anger "indians" since they are a BRITISH band.
  13. GrandAdmiralPelleaon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 6
    So Snowdog, do you consider hitler's ideology evil? Same thing really. They preach about evil things thus it is evil music.
  14. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    Excuse me, but I find your bashes on Christian music extremely offensive. Look, I admit that there aren't very many good Christian musicians. Most of that music is crap. But the reason it's crap isn't because it's a bunch of marketing stuff, it's because people who really believe in that stuff want to sing about it and express their beliefs, whether or not they are talented.

    Christian musicians singing their hearts out about Jesus is no different than mainstream artists singing their hearts out about love, break ups, whatever. I think the important thing is that it's really what they feel. So what if it doesn't "sound cool"? It's more sincere than most of that pop crap.

    And besides, there are plenty of secular bands I wouldn't touch with a 40 foot pole, but several Christian bands, like Five Iron Frenzy, that I could listen to all day.

    And that skinhead crap is not just stupid. I think that music is evil, because it's preaching hate. Pure and simple.

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  15. skawookiee Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2000
    star 4
    Right on, Solojones! Five Iron Frenzy rocks! I guess the issue here is ignorance vs evil. Are people who spread hateful messages poor souls to be pitied, and their messages just misguided? Or are they evil, trying to hurt people? Are they stupid enough to believe that the whole world should revolve around them, or are they evil enough to try and make it happen by preaching it in their music and sway our youth to follow their selfishness?
  16. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    Yeah, FIF rocks :D

    I think people who sing those ignorant things are trying to show how different they are, but they end up just making a whole bunch of lost kids be JUST like them... it's so stupid.

    Like Eminem. He thinks he's so cool because he's controversial and he says shocking things but um, bad news, I know tons of guys just like you at my school and they are all going down the crap hole too!

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  17. TheVioletBurns Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2002
    star 4
    The 'commercialism' of the Christian music industry bugs me, too, so I can see where you're coming from SnowDog.

    However. There are PLENTY of bands who get little to no recognition in either industry who write artistic, introspective, and intelligent music about their faith and their struggles. They have fans of all different types of viewpoints. Kinda why I brought up the Red Hot Chili Peppers point. You don't have to be Buddhist to enjoy their music at all.

    I just dislike these sorts of people getting passed off as 'Christian/religious rock' (and so do they), because then most people don't give a second thought to their art. And the funny thing is, the Christian industry passes up on them too, because they aren't 'blatant' enough.

    That's my only beef, you see. It's just so sad to see people pass up on great music! ;)
  18. skawookiee Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2000
    star 4
    I don't even think there should be a Christian music industry. I don't see an Environmentalist music industry, and Hindu music industry, an Islam music industry, or a Satanic music industry. I don' see why Christians insist on isolating themselves by creating their own music industry. Why can't they sell records like every other singer that has a religious belief?
  19. TheVioletBurns Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2002
    star 4
    Exactly!!

    Hooray! Somebody gets it. ;)
  20. DarthYama Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 4
    Well, the swastika is a Hindu symbol...

    Whoa. We're getting off topic.
  21. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    Christian music, I don't think it should be separated. That's not what I was meaning to convery. I was simply saying that there are too many people who dismiss all artists who talk about Christianity as horrible and forget that they are just conveying their feelings.

    I love bands like Five Iron Frenzy, because they are able to sing about God, but also about other things, and they have great music.

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  22. Darth_SnowDog Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2001
    star 4
    I just don't think there's a cool way to incorporate "I love Jesus" or "I love Krishna" or "Mohammed Rocks" into music... it's just... cheesy.

    I'm a spiritual person, and the spirituality of my music doesn't need words for it to come through. It's kind of like this band I know in Minneapolis that isn't religious but they insist on singing... when what they should do is stick to instrumental industrial techno-rock. (Trust me, they're doing your ears a favor if they quit singing...)

    As for the Nazi thing.... I don't think in absolutes of evil and good, in the first place. Hitler wasn't an absolutely evil person, as if he were such from birth brought into this world with the predetermined purpose of being evil in all respects. However, what he did is absolutely despicable and the epitome of evil.. but in his own twisted mind he did what he thought was right... not what he thought was wrong. If anything, he was one of history's most twisted psychopaths. But in another sense, the universe will always strike a balance between good and evil, so I'm not worried about this music. I'm worried about the idiots who think its message has value.

    Giving Nazi music the attention it doesn't deserve only fuels the fires. Gandhi was a genius... nonviolence and noncooperation... basically ignoring your enemy... eventually makes them go away. And he singlehandedly led a nonviolent, noncooperative movement which sent the entire British Empire packing with its tail between its legs.

    That racists would, out of their pure ignorance, associate themselves with the ancestral symbology of Gandhi or myself (I'm black-haired, brown-eyed and dark-skinned, mind you) is an ironical blunder of epic proportions. Instead of combatting this music, how about combatting the misinformation and lack of education that entices each successive generation into such movements that prey on the stupid, uneducated and ignorant?

    You don't treat a bacterial infection with cough syrup. Attack the problem at the source, not the symptom.
  23. Obi-Wan's Apparition Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2000
    star 5
    ...or a Satanic music industry.

    You would be surprised. Now that is what I call evil music. [face_plain]
  24. That_Flashing Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2000
    star 5
    Is there any music you consider "evil"?

    Yes, rap.
  25. DarthPhelps Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2002
    star 5
    I think the Christian music industry is separate because getting these views expressed in a medium that shuns them was too difficult. To put out the music and lyrics that they wanted they had to create their own record labels, etc. Is it unfortunate? Sure. At the same time, there are some bands that are less 'in your face'. They would even deny the label (and who wants labels, anyway) of 'Christian'. Waaaay back in the day, nearly 1/2 of my lifetime ago a band that wore black and yellow stripes made it big on a (shall I use the term) secular label, called Enigma. This was a departure, especially back then. I think it happened because Enigma was a little record company, and perhaps they saw Stryper's look and message as a fresh new thing that might generate sales.

    This leads to the marketing thing. There's not much to say, but the music industry is run by marketing. So what? I doubt any of us are going to stop listening to our Rush, U2, Aerosmith, etc., etc. because they are involved in marketing. Should a particular message be smothered because it is voiced in a market-driven industry? Rubbish. Frankly, if a Hindu band started touring with Ozzy I'd applaud them. Break out of the oppresive mold of stagnant public opinion! Yes, my brothers! Go forth and rock on about what you feel! I might be wrong, but I think I've heard of a Jewish rock band. Can't say for sure, but there are plenty of Jewish actors/comedians, so why not?

    I must say that in my youth I also felt that it was somewhat 'cheesy'. Still can be today, depending on the lyrics. They need to be heartfelt and not contrived. I believe that another reason for this feeling is that hard rock music has been presented since the mid 70's as less than wholesome. Therefore, when Christian rock started to emerge it seemed absurd. It was also beset by horrible perception problems: cheesy to the general public, villified by most of the Christian leadership (at least the televangelists).
    Related note: Swaggart once said (mid-80's or so) that although the bands might mean well, the 'beat' was evil. I lost a great deal of respect for him then. What a silly comment. A particular drum beat or chord played by an electric guitar can be evil? I sensed that he was playing to the emotions of the aged viewership...or maybe he was actually that deluded. I wasn't that dumb, and Christian band Deliverance addressed the issue themselves on their album "What a Joke" - named after that sentiment. (See? We can have independent thought! ;))


    Sorry about all that. Just putting in my two cents.

    Regarding the original question at hand, I'd say that I consider NO music evil. I believe that lyrics (expressing direct thoughts and ideas) can be.

    Let your arrows fly, now. I shall prevail like sweet Concord!

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