CT Is there any real reason why the OT will never get an unaltered release?

I wonder why. Hmmm....

 

Did you even read the thread? like many people said before me it wasn't dvd quality, all he did was take the old obsolete laserdisk versions and put it on dvd. it looked horrendis. think about all the direct to dvd crap we get, and we can't even get the original version of the greatest movie ever made? anyway i like the original's and the 1997 versions. i hate the 2004 versions.

 

Luke's scream? The 1997 Jabba?

I'll take the latest version, good & bad.
The original Mos Eisley looked like crap

 

I think there's an Amidala line in TPM which is a direct reference to this scene ( the original version ). Thus I don't understand why they changed it in the first place.

 

The "new look" of the special editions are a mixed bag; the 1997 edition was pretty good for that. But since 2004 there's been a blue tint which a lot of people (including myself) hate, with Darth Vader having a pink lightsaber and now the Death Star explosion being a boring grey color. Also, Luke's green lightsaber in the Millennium Falcon. Maybe Lucas thinks of himself as a perfectionist, but with all of these issues I can't say that I can call him one.

And of course, there's substantial changes like Temeura Morrison's voice and the Hayden ghost which inevitably make a lot of purists (not me) unhappy.

The 2006 release didn't even have a new transfer (minus restoration). It was copy-and-paste from a laserdisc.

 

IIRC, audio degradation is the reason for any & all line replacements in the OT, besides the new Vader-Palpatine scene in TESB (I don't really get why they changed that; the original dialogue is fine.)

My only real nitpick with the OT -SEs is Boba's voice. Temuera sounds bored and his voice is all wrong; the original was much more menacing.

 

In the SE they inserted a shot of Vader actually walking to his shuttle right after this, so the line pretty much needed to be changed since the shuttle is already sitting there. I much prefer the original line, and I didn't need the new shuttle footage. Pointless, imo.

 

I didn't mind Temuera being added in. It makes sense continuity wise, however i would have prefered the lines being delivered a little better. The old slow menacing "As...you wish" becomes a very fast out of place sounding "Asyouwish"

 

It was more like "Es yu wush, bro. Now cook me some @#$%ing iggs, gel!"

Sorry, but while the New Zealand accent might sound foreign enough to pass in a film for most of the world, for those of us in Australia, Temuera Morrison's accent just grates (just as the broad Aussie accent of that Aboriginal actor in the deleted Rebellion scenes of ROTS does). It's the same as a full-blown Canadian accent might sound to US viewers ("Put him in the keeaarrgo hold, eh?"), or a Scottish, Welsh or Irish accent might sound to those in the UK & Ireland ("His no gud tae me deid, ye feckin' bastard").

First time I saw AOTC, just about every line from both Fetts got huge laughs, all due to the accent. If LFL wants to change the stormies voices to match Jango's, they can write off the Australian market for any further sales completely.

 

Hmm, I don't think I know anyone here in the US that would laugh at a character in a movie just because they had a Canadian accent. Is it really because it takes people out of the believability that this is in a galaxy far away, or is it just some Australian Kiwi-bashing?

 

I so want this.

 

Pretty much, it's the immediate familiarity that does it. American, British, French, Russian - they're "movie" accents. Kiwi & Aussie accents just don't seem to fit, particularly if they're quite pronounced.

That's just from my perspective, though.

 

You mean the guy playing Fang Zar? If it's any consolation he gets the business end of Vader's saber in the EU.

 

Yes, that's in Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader, right?

OK, that makes sense.

 

Which I find to be a cop out. Look, your experience hasn't changed just because a film has. I've grown up with every version of the film since the first theatrical re-release that included "Episode IV: A New Hope" and the change in Beru's voice. None of my memories of the film has changed at all. I still remember when I first saw it as a kid. I still remember the time it was on at my uncle's house, when we were spending the weekend there as we used to do often. I still remember wanting to see it again after a long stretch and finally doing so on Easter Sunday, again at my uncle's home. I still remember seeing it in theaters for the first time when the SE came out. None of those memories are affected by the version of the film that I watch. Some fans way too invested if they think that their experiences are now diluted by some cosmetic changes.

Lucas understands the fans issues, but to him, it is a non issue.

"The point is, like if you paint your house white and somebody comes over, 'Well that should be a green house.' Well, fine, but I wanted to paint it white. I don?t think there was anything wrong with painting it white. I don?t think there?s anything wrong with me for painting it white. Maybe it should be a green house, but I didn?t want it to be a green house. I wanted it to be a white house.?

--George Lucas, 60 Minutes Interview 2005.

Yet, when you get down to it, it is the same film. Nothing changes with the changes Lucas made. Han was still going to kill Greedo when we see him undo the strap on his holster and remove his blaster. Mos Eisley is still a spaceport filled with scum and villainy, though now it matches up to Mos Espa. Jabba's presence in ANH makes sense since it allows Han to have one last chance with Jabba and thus enhances the ROTJ scenes. And what's more is that the new generation is seeing the SE's and they're going to be the ones that don't care as much as this generation does about the THX versions of the films. ANH to me is still ANH. Same with the special editions of "Superman: The Movie", "Star Trek: The Motion Picture" and "Highlander 2: The Quickening".

 

Personally, even though my screen name says otherwise (it's tongue in cheek lol) I like most changes, love that the SFX are kept fresh and with the blu rays don't even mind Greedo getting a shot of cuz its hard to notice. I own originals on VHS and DVD so I'm fine with it even though it's lower quality transfer but honestly, I only watch blu rays now why be a purist at this point? Let's just enjoy what we have and be glad we got them in hd!

 

A "cop out"? Please explain how my agreeing with Spielberg that "he was depriving ET fans of reliving their experiences of growing up with the film" in any way constitutes a failure to fulfill a responsibility, or the deliberate avoidance of a problem. I think you like the sound of the phrase "cop out", are uncertain what it means and are using it erroneously here.

So, "Look" -- I'm not saying that my experience or memory of watching the original theatrical versions is in any way changed. That is a sidebar, a red herring and a straw man all in one. My memories remain. What has been removed is the opportunity to re-watch and re-experience those films today, in their original form, in optimal or even standard video and audio formats.

I disagree with your opinion that "Some fans [are] way too invested if they think that their experiences are now diluted by some cosmetic changes." There are additional scenes, characters and events that go beyond mere "cosmetic changes". Your claim that the addition of several minutes of film (Jabba, Biggs), the removal of two favorite creatures from the Cantina (the werewolves), the modification of Greedo v. Han, and the insertion of slapstick robots and monsters (the ASP droid, the Ronto) into an otherwise serious plot progression is disingenuous at best. Tone, pacing, visual interest and character are all affected by these changes, which makes them by definition not merely "cosmetic". The original theatrical and SE versions of the 1977 film are objectively, materially different films.

Good for him. There is also the question of pleasing one's audience. You personally don't want the original versions in an optimal format as so many others do, so you can take or leave them. You think, despite all evidence of reason and your senses to the contrary, that the changes to the 1977 film are merely "cosmetic". So you're arguing in Lucas' favor.

But we w

 

If/when Episode 4 in 3d makes it to theatres I wish to see Luke fixing the vaporator, heading to the Toche Station, and having his conversation with Biggs.

 

No, I know it means. I use it because it's a weak explanation for people saying that they dislike changes made to either "E.T." or to the OT. Saying that they cannot relive their childhood because it doesn't look the same, is a BS excuse.

Those films haven't changed just because of some cosmetic features. You can still do so regardless of the changes, but you refuse to because of some notion to have it exactly as it was.

BS. The pacing of the film is in no way diluted by those scenes being in there now, as opposed to if they had been there before. That's more of one being used to something, than whether or not it disrupts something. I can watch those same scenes and not find a problem in pacing. In terms of tone, the humor in the trip into Mos Eisley is also not diluted since in no way detracts from the more important scene of the roadblock. Han's character is no way affected by Greedo shooting first, regardless of what Lucas says on the subject. He's still going to kill him. All it does is show that Greedo is a lousy shot and not a real threat.

Lucas doesn't owe the fans a damn thing. Never has and never will. That's the kind of mentality that always gets me regardless of who is the object of one's ire. The fans ought to count themselves lucky at all that Lucas even bothered to release any more films, much less in whatever format he chooses. To those fans, I say, get over it.

 

I heartily disagree with all of the above, to use your own vulgar and insulting term, "BS". Your condescension is frankly sickening. Your posting style is obnoxious and overbearing. Your Manager Emeritus title should be stripped from your name. So you have an opinion. Terrific. What does that have to do with the rest of us? Why are you so opposed to something that you wouldn't have to spend a nickel on if it were released, but means a lot to a lot of people? What does any of this have to do with you? Are you so blind to other people's feelings that you disregard their wills and opinions simply because you happen to see the world differently from them? You don't want the O-OT, don't buy it.

EDIT: Removed the "Ass hat".

 

I find this statement quite odd. So Lucas is making changes but nothing changes?
Makes you wonder why Lucas bothers, afterall he spends some time and money to change something and yet it is exactly as it was before. Lucas very clearly thinks that the new versions are VERY different from the originals. If they weren't, why would he be so opposed to release them?

And seeing as hwo you like to quote Lucas, I got a few for you;
"A copyright is held in trust by its owner until it ultimately reverts to public domain. American works of art belong to the American public; they are part of our cultural history. "

"Tommorrow, more advanced technology will be able to replace actors with "fresher faces," or alter dialogue and change the movement of the actor's lips to match."

"In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be "replaced" by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten."

"People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an exercise of power are barbarians, and if the laws of the United States continue to condone this behavior, history will surely classify us as a barbaric society. "

Steven Spielberg had this to say, "Let generations yet unborn see the films produced by our film artists as they were released." He recalls how in war times, armies will often loot conquered nations, and that retrieving those stolen artworks occupies a real priority in post-war eras, demonstrating their cultural importance. "In a very real sense," he said, "the nation, which had paid the price for its culture, has an investment in the preservation of what it has paid for."

Regards
Nordom

 

What I meant was that even when he changed a scene like Han versus Greedo, Han's badassness is not diminished. He's still going to kill him. Lucas may have his own reasons for having Greedo shoots first, but that still doesn't change that Han is a badass. That he doesn't care for the Alliance or their cause. All he cares about is himself, Chewie and paying off his debt.

In terms of release, it's not about them being different regarding the release of the THX versions. It's more of a matter that he doesn't see the need to have two versions of the same film available at the same time. Whereas you see studios or directors catering to the fans like with "Blade Runner", Lucas believes that one version should be sufficient for the market. He may make changes like he did with the Blu-Rays, but note that he takes the previous versions off the market. He didn't have the DVD and the Blu-Ray versions available at the same time.

It may belong to the public, but as the artist himself, he is entitled to make it look like however he wants it to. And he is capable of controlling the release. Once you purchase said art, it is yours. He cannot take away your copy of the film.

Which has happened.

 

I'd essentially agree with that, although I wouldn't be at all unhappy if GL gave us the choice, in the case of the changes to the OT, to flip back and forth between the 2 versions on the blu-ray just like we can do when we're watching Star Trek TOS.

At the same time, I don't think it's worth making a big fuss about it. I'm still pretty happy to have at least one version of the OT films on blu-ray (and the unaltered versions on DVDs).

Since he always likes to milk things for everything they're worth, I'm sure eventually we'll get both a new 3-D Star Wars Saga set, and the original OT films either as a bonus or in a separate blu-ray set. It'll just be a few years, probably.

 

This scene IS changed none the less, if nothing else, Greedo becomes an extremly BAD shot, missing a stationary target less than three feet away.
If he is this lousy one wonders why Jabba employs him. And according to Lucas there is a difference with Han as well, before Han was a cold-blooded murderer, now he is not. Of course that reasoning is wrong as what Han did in either version could be called self-defence.
Also, as you said Han takes out his gun and prepares to use it. But why would he wait until Greedo fires before shooting himself?
Seems a little risky. Better to take Greedo out before he can make good on his threat.
Not to mention that in the Jabba scene, Han is asked why he fried Greedo. Since Greedo took a shot at him, the question makes no sense. Did Jabba actually expect Han to have himself get shot at and not respond?
Having Hayden as Anakins ghost is more than a cosmetic change and there is more.
And again, to Lucas the two versions are VERY different so obviously the changes changed something, otherwise Lucas is just wasting his time.

The issue goes far beyond that. If it is BAD for one person to alter old films and prevent the original version from being avaliable but perfectly fine if another does exactly the same thing, then why does Cultural History or Heritage matter?
If one group of people can do whatever they want with works of art then preserving film history, cultural heritage or legacy is irrelevant. If some have carte blanche to alter older films any way they want, then there is no film history to protect. Also the hearing was in part to protect artists from having their works defaced BUT also to ensure that the public had acess to classic films--their cultural heritage--in the original form. Lucas urges Congress to enact law in order to protect American cultural heritage and preserve films as they were.
Oh as an aside, Lucas didn't direct ESB and RotJ so his claim as being the "artist" of those films is a bit weak.
Who is the "aritst" of a movie anyway? The writer, the director, the producer, the actors, the editor?
It is a joint creation so why should just one person be given all the rights?

And later still Spielberg regrets having tampered with his film.
From June 5, 2011.

Steven Spielberg: Oh, I know. I totally understand that. (In the future) there?s going to be no more digital enhancements or digital additions to anything based on any film I direct. I?m not going to do any corrections digitally to even wires that show.

Steven Spielberg: "When people ask me which E.T. they should look at, I always tell them to look at the original 1982 E.T. If you notice, when we did put out E.T. we put out two E.T.s. We put out the digitally enhanced version with the additional scenes and