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CT Is there any real reason why the OT will never get an unaltered release?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by IG-85, Sep 15, 2011.

  1. Lord Tyrannus

    Lord Tyrannus Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2012
    I noticed the kind of melancholic sound to Victory celebration though. Just because it's g minor and sad, doesn't mean it's sad, sad. Sad can also be bittersweet, for instance, the good guys win in the end. By "sad, sad", I mean something that sounds sad and depressing, like pink floyd or radiohead music.

    Victory celebration was way more epic than Yub Nub, though.[face_dancing]
     
  2. Mnhay27

    Mnhay27 Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    Again, Yub Nub has a more pounding rhythm which is automatically more lively and euphoric sounding.

    And you would play Black Sabbath's "Changes" on a piano would you not? :p
     
  3. Lord Tyrannus

    Lord Tyrannus Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2012
    It had horrible instruments. I loved the melody of Victory celebration. Different opinions.

    Part of crazy train, an ozzy osbourne, song, appeal, is the guitar part of it. It's mainly the melody, but the guitar complements it. Everything goes together. Playing crazy train on a piano, or playing Iron Man on piano, just wouldn't have the same awesome, nice sounding, distinct guitar feel to it, even if the melody is the same. Certain melodies work best on certain instruments.

    Victory celebration had awesome instruments sound to it.
     
  4. HanSolo29

    HanSolo29 Manager Emeritus + Official Star Wars Artist star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2001
    Actually, both songs used a lot of the same instruments to achieve that tribal feel. You have the woodwinds, the pounding percussion, synthesizer and the chorus.
     
  5. Mnhay27

    Mnhay27 Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    I'm not really sure what you mean by "horrible" or "awesome" sounding instruments. All instruments sound good when played properly. Of course, you are right that certain instruments are suited to certain types of music - and Randy Rhoads guitar playing was perfectly suited to Ozzy's brand of metal - but I'm not sure how that relates to what we're talking about here. Yes, there is different instrumentation on the two Ewok celebration songs but then they're two very different sounding pieces requiring different sounding instruments. So I'm not sure what you're getting at.

    However, I'm gald that you conceded that Victory Celebration is more melancholy and that's my point. The situation called for a more joyous, celebratory song, which is why Yub Nub fits the bill. Not to mention the fact that the use of more pounding percussion gives it a tribal feel which is in keeping with the Ewoks and their culture.
     
  6. Mnhay27

    Mnhay27 Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    I suppose you're right. Giving it another listen, Victory Celebration does have a tribal feel too although I think it's less obvious.
     
  7. Lord Tyrannus

    Lord Tyrannus Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2012
    Good observation. The end of ROTJ needed a joyous sound for a celebration. Victory celebration fits the bill. Yub Nub was not. This is one of the things were people either love it or hate it. Victory celebration had percussion, too. It was more upbeat. Yub Nub, was slow, compared to the other one. Victory celebration was way more dramatic and epic, too.

    With the ozzy reference, I meant that the instruments used in Victory celebration sounded very much appropriate for that part of the movie.
     
  8. Mnhay27

    Mnhay27 Jedi Knight star 2

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    Sep 4, 2012
    Actually, no. It's REALLY obvious. Don't know what I was thinking LOL
     
  9. Lord Tyrannus

    Lord Tyrannus Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Oct 18, 2012
    I prefer Victory celebration over yub nub, by a lot!!!!!!!!!^:)^[face_dancing]
     
  10. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 7, 2009
    The Jabba scene was originally going to be in the movie, but they couldn't get Jabba done in time. If it had been there from the start, would you still complain? As for Greedo, I don't know. I don't like it either, but I respect his choice.

    The 2006 DVDs are much better than VHS, by far. Not even comparable.
     
  11. Lord Tyrannus

    Lord Tyrannus Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Oct 18, 2012
    Jabba the hutt kind of looks like the sewer monsters from ratchet and clank, another awesome space opera series.
     
  12. Mnhay27

    Mnhay27 Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    I cannot give an honest answer to a question like that. How do I know what I would have felt about a hypothetical situation? In any case, I suspect that since the scene is redundant from a stroytelling perspective, it would have been deleted anyway.

    It's not about respecting or disrespecting Lucas's choices - he is obviously free to add whatever he wants. The question is why does he, or anyone else, think it enhances the scene to have Greedo shoot first? I cannot see any merit in this addition.

    I just put an old VHS on for the first time in years and was reminded about their most sucky feature; the sound quality. Tapes are just so muddy and seem to have way to much low end and it seems to get worse over time.

    So on that point alone, I suspect you're right. I might have to see if I can pick up the laserdiscs and a player cheap on ebay or somewhere.
     
  13. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Redundant? I disagree. It's the new introduction of Jabba. It shows his relationship with Han. It helps remind the audience of Han's debt (which although mentioned is easily forgotten).

    I don't like that change either, but just because I don't like it doesn't mean it didn't have a purpose. Maybe his view of Han's character has changed? Either way, I suspect any possible explanation won't change your views.
     
  14. Lord Tyrannus

    Lord Tyrannus Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2012
    It wasn't Han or Greedo. It was Chuck Norris.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. sinkie

    sinkie Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    May 27, 2004
    It wasn't forgotten by me and my friends for years on end! We had a whole whack of fun trying to figure out who this Jabba was (especially since I don't think any of us had read the Marvel adaptation of ANH).

    I wouldn't exactly call it redundant, though I do find it breaks the rhythm of it. But moreover I despise the portrayal of Jabba in that sequence. He seems diminished, Han literally "walks" all over him! I prefer the long haul payoff of finally meeting this Jabba in his palace, where he appears to stay, perhaps never leaving except on his floating palace the sail barge. His entire design, his sluggish, weighty-ness discovered in the dim smoky den of iniquity where at the push of a button he can send someone to their death! This is the Jabba I appreciate, not the calmer, reasonable Jabba we get BECAUSE of the earlier incarnation of him as conceived by GL at the time of the writing of ANH. It is quite obvious, to me anyway, that he had changed his mind on exactly what sort of person Jabba would be by the time ROTJ rolled around and the two just don't equate (and I don't want to have to go to EU to get some sort of out-of-story explanation as to why Jabba changed both physically and personality wise in the span of probably what is at most a year or so (though canon states it is somehow 4 years...but even so). And then there is the not so subtle Fett-pander-to-the-audience shot. Ugh. Not only do we not need Fett in ANH, we especially didn't need him to stop dead center of the frame and look at the camera (and I am completely aware that the actor claims this is not what he intended to do...but it looks this way and GL chose to keep it so it is the same apples...). If Fett had just been much more subtly and maturely placed in the background, almost in the shadows and that was it? Ok, that's more sticking to the evolution of his character and shows an ability to integrate but not pander, to be subtler. Anyway, that scene as a deleted extra both with and without the added effects is fine, integrated into the actual film just does a lot of harm IMO.
     
  16. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2002
    Agreed. Largely I don't feel that strongly either way about the revisions, but Victory Celebration is the one change I couldn't imagine losing at this point. I much prefer the hints of melancholy after a conflict that cost a lot of life rather than an all out party.
     
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  17. Mnhay27

    Mnhay27 Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    Ok. But the film worked fine for 30 years without it because it doesn't add anything to the story. But more importantly than that, to me anyway, is the fact that it looks awful. I mean that CGI Jabba has aged really badly and I know I'm not the only one who thinks it never did look anything like Jabba in ROTJ.

    But to me making Greedo shoot first doesn't seem to have a purpose because - despite all the fanboy protests - it doesn't change Han's character. Whether he shot Greedo because he was pointing a gun at Han and telling him he was gonna kill him and take his ship, or because Greedo shot at him first, it was still an act of self defense. There's no legal or moral difference as far as I can see. But again the biggest problem I have it is that it looks terrible - like somebody just randomly inserted a few frames from a computer game or something into the middle of the scene.

    I'm not one of those people who automatically hates all the changes. Far from it. I like the improved effects in ANH, new shots of the Falcon taking off, new shots of the X-wings etc. I'm fine with all of the changes in TESB, even the addition of Temuera Morrison's voice as Bobba Fett. And I'm cool with the new Sarlacc in ROTJ and even the addition of Hayden Christensen doesn't bother me.

    The stuff that bothers me is the additions that rely heavily on cheap and oudated looking CGI like the Jabba scene, the Greedo shot, and the (IMHO) awful cheesy "Jedi Rocks" catastrophe.
     
  18. Lars_Muul

    Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 2, 2000
    ANH Jabba was improved for the DVD release, but he still looks better in the other episodes. TPM Jabba is my favorite.
    The 2004 edit of the Greedo scene doesn't look bad at all, IMO. I've never felt that the change was needed, but I don't mind it, either. To me, it looks like Greedo suddenly realized that Han had drawn his blaster and pulled the trigger in panic, thereby hitting the wall.





    Greedo - he sucks
    /LM
     
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  19. Lord Tyrannus

    Lord Tyrannus Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2012
    I totally agree. People were lost-anakin, padme, all the rebel soldiers and imperial soldiers too, luke's aunt and uncle, yoda, obi wan, and more, presumably. So melancholy was perfect for that part. Also, I can imagine people dancing to Victory celebration way more than Yub Nub.
     
  20. Darth_Nub

    Darth_Nub Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2009
    Morons, all of you.

    Keep that flaccid 1990s muzak to your yoga classes & home birth practice sessions, or the elevators which take you to them.

    I'd rather ROTJ had finished off with a dubstep remix of Jabba the Hutt's dialogue with the Sarlaac burping as a bassline, than the abomination that was 'Victory Celebration'.
     
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  21. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2002
    Wub nub, wub nub. Wub nub blankie for youuuuu, and for meeeeeee! Celebrate the love!!! Celebrate the love, celebrate the lovvvveeeeeee!!!!

    ^
    Weep for this Cultural Heritage that has been lost.
     
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  22. Lord Tyrannus

    Lord Tyrannus Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2012
    Why do you hate victory celebration? Yub nub was not as fun to dance to, and it didn't have the energetic sound of victory celebrtaioon, and how victory celebration gradually got more dramatic as the song went along. The melancholy was awesome, the melancholic feel was epic way to end star wars.
     
  23. Darth_Nub

    Darth_Nub Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2009
    Dance to? It was a Star Wars film, not the bloody Rocky Horror Picture Show. Not that Victory Abomination was likely to get people dancing in the aisles anyway.

    And do you even know what 'melancholy' even means? How the hell could melancholy ever be described as 'awesome'?

    I stand by my blanket condemnation of those who prefer Victory Celebration over Yub Nub.
     
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  24. WhiskeyGold

    WhiskeyGold Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 13, 2001
    I did get one on DVD a few years ago, so i dont see why people say it didnt.
     
  25. sinkie

    sinkie Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    May 27, 2004
    We need to stickie the specs on the bonus DVD release so it does not need to be repeated why it is subpar....at best. Though yeah, at least we got that, a release.

    But again, it was a non anamorphic, laserdisc transfer with little to know remastering whatsoever...and now we've got blu-ray and the future of increased resolution to look forward to. Pop this disc onto a widescreen HD TV and unless you've got some sort of amazing chips in there to blow it up and miraculously add resolution and "quality" to it, you'll see it is a small rectangle in the middle of the screen surrounded by an ocean of crystalline black emptiness. But yes at least the pacing and original editing and effects are all there, so tonally it is true to the originals.