CT Is there any real reason why the OT will never get an unaltered release?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by IG-85, Sep 15, 2011.

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  1. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    I noticed the kind of melancholic sound to Victory celebration though. Just because it's g minor and sad, doesn't mean it's sad, sad. Sad can also be bittersweet, for instance, the good guys win in the end. By "sad, sad", I mean something that sounds sad and depressing, like pink floyd or radiohead music.

    Victory celebration was way more epic than Yub Nub, though.[face_dancing]
  2. Mnhay27 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 1
    Again, Yub Nub has a more pounding rhythm which is automatically more lively and euphoric sounding.

    And you would play Black Sabbath's "Changes" on a piano would you not? :p
  3. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    It had horrible instruments. I loved the melody of Victory celebration. Different opinions.

    Part of crazy train, an ozzy osbourne, song, appeal, is the guitar part of it. It's mainly the melody, but the guitar complements it. Everything goes together. Playing crazy train on a piano, or playing Iron Man on piano, just wouldn't have the same awesome, nice sounding, distinct guitar feel to it, even if the melody is the same. Certain melodies work best on certain instruments.

    Victory celebration had awesome instruments sound to it.
  4. HanSolo29 Manager Emeritus + Official Star Wars Artist

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2001
    star 6
    Actually, both songs used a lot of the same instruments to achieve that tribal feel. You have the woodwinds, the pounding percussion, synthesizer and the chorus.
  5. Mnhay27 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 1
    I'm not really sure what you mean by "horrible" or "awesome" sounding instruments. All instruments sound good when played properly. Of course, you are right that certain instruments are suited to certain types of music - and Randy Rhoads guitar playing was perfectly suited to Ozzy's brand of metal - but I'm not sure how that relates to what we're talking about here. Yes, there is different instrumentation on the two Ewok celebration songs but then they're two very different sounding pieces requiring different sounding instruments. So I'm not sure what you're getting at.

    However, I'm gald that you conceded that Victory Celebration is more melancholy and that's my point. The situation called for a more joyous, celebratory song, which is why Yub Nub fits the bill. Not to mention the fact that the use of more pounding percussion gives it a tribal feel which is in keeping with the Ewoks and their culture.
    Last edited by Mnhay27, Oct 24, 2012
  6. Mnhay27 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 1
    I suppose you're right. Giving it another listen, Victory Celebration does have a tribal feel too although I think it's less obvious.
  7. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    Good observation. The end of ROTJ needed a joyous sound for a celebration. Victory celebration fits the bill. Yub Nub was not. This is one of the things were people either love it or hate it. Victory celebration had percussion, too. It was more upbeat. Yub Nub, was slow, compared to the other one. Victory celebration was way more dramatic and epic, too.

    With the ozzy reference, I meant that the instruments used in Victory celebration sounded very much appropriate for that part of the movie.
  8. Mnhay27 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 1
    Actually, no. It's REALLY obvious. Don't know what I was thinking LOL
  9. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    I prefer Victory celebration over yub nub, by a lot!!!!!!!!!^:)^[face_dancing]
  10. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    The Jabba scene was originally going to be in the movie, but they couldn't get Jabba done in time. If it had been there from the start, would you still complain? As for Greedo, I don't know. I don't like it either, but I respect his choice.

    The 2006 DVDs are much better than VHS, by far. Not even comparable.
    Last edited by Alexrd, Oct 24, 2012
  11. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    Jabba the hutt kind of looks like the sewer monsters from ratchet and clank, another awesome space opera series.
  12. Mnhay27 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 1
    I cannot give an honest answer to a question like that. How do I know what I would have felt about a hypothetical situation? In any case, I suspect that since the scene is redundant from a stroytelling perspective, it would have been deleted anyway.

    It's not about respecting or disrespecting Lucas's choices - he is obviously free to add whatever he wants. The question is why does he, or anyone else, think it enhances the scene to have Greedo shoot first? I cannot see any merit in this addition.

    I just put an old VHS on for the first time in years and was reminded about their most sucky feature; the sound quality. Tapes are just so muddy and seem to have way to much low end and it seems to get worse over time.

    So on that point alone, I suspect you're right. I might have to see if I can pick up the laserdiscs and a player cheap on ebay or somewhere.
  13. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Redundant? I disagree. It's the new introduction of Jabba. It shows his relationship with Han. It helps remind the audience of Han's debt (which although mentioned is easily forgotten).

    I don't like that change either, but just because I don't like it doesn't mean it didn't have a purpose. Maybe his view of Han's character has changed? Either way, I suspect any possible explanation won't change your views.
  14. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    It wasn't Han or Greedo. It was Chuck Norris.

    [IMG]
  15. sinkie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2004
    star 1
    It wasn't forgotten by me and my friends for years on end! We had a whole whack of fun trying to figure out who this Jabba was (especially since I don't think any of us had read the Marvel adaptation of ANH).

    I wouldn't exactly call it redundant, though I do find it breaks the rhythm of it. But moreover I despise the portrayal of Jabba in that sequence. He seems diminished, Han literally "walks" all over him! I prefer the long haul payoff of finally meeting this Jabba in his palace, where he appears to stay, perhaps never leaving except on his floating palace the sail barge. His entire design, his sluggish, weighty-ness discovered in the dim smoky den of iniquity where at the push of a button he can send someone to their death! This is the Jabba I appreciate, not the calmer, reasonable Jabba we get BECAUSE of the earlier incarnation of him as conceived by GL at the time of the writing of ANH. It is quite obvious, to me anyway, that he had changed his mind on exactly what sort of person Jabba would be by the time ROTJ rolled around and the two just don't equate (and I don't want to have to go to EU to get some sort of out-of-story explanation as to why Jabba changed both physically and personality wise in the span of probably what is at most a year or so (though canon states it is somehow 4 years...but even so). And then there is the not so subtle Fett-pander-to-the-audience shot. Ugh. Not only do we not need Fett in ANH, we especially didn't need him to stop dead center of the frame and look at the camera (and I am completely aware that the actor claims this is not what he intended to do...but it looks this way and GL chose to keep it so it is the same apples...). If Fett had just been much more subtly and maturely placed in the background, almost in the shadows and that was it? Ok, that's more sticking to the evolution of his character and shows an ability to integrate but not pander, to be subtler. Anyway, that scene as a deleted extra both with and without the added effects is fine, integrated into the actual film just does a lot of harm IMO.
  16. ezekiel22x Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 4
    Agreed. Largely I don't feel that strongly either way about the revisions, but Victory Celebration is the one change I couldn't imagine losing at this point. I much prefer the hints of melancholy after a conflict that cost a lot of life rather than an all out party.
    DarthBoba likes this.
  17. Mnhay27 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 1
    Ok. But the film worked fine for 30 years without it because it doesn't add anything to the story. But more importantly than that, to me anyway, is the fact that it looks awful. I mean that CGI Jabba has aged really badly and I know I'm not the only one who thinks it never did look anything like Jabba in ROTJ.

    But to me making Greedo shoot first doesn't seem to have a purpose because - despite all the fanboy protests - it doesn't change Han's character. Whether he shot Greedo because he was pointing a gun at Han and telling him he was gonna kill him and take his ship, or because Greedo shot at him first, it was still an act of self defense. There's no legal or moral difference as far as I can see. But again the biggest problem I have it is that it looks terrible - like somebody just randomly inserted a few frames from a computer game or something into the middle of the scene.

    I'm not one of those people who automatically hates all the changes. Far from it. I like the improved effects in ANH, new shots of the Falcon taking off, new shots of the X-wings etc. I'm fine with all of the changes in TESB, even the addition of Temuera Morrison's voice as Bobba Fett. And I'm cool with the new Sarlacc in ROTJ and even the addition of Hayden Christensen doesn't bother me.

    The stuff that bothers me is the additions that rely heavily on cheap and oudated looking CGI like the Jabba scene, the Greedo shot, and the (IMHO) awful cheesy "Jedi Rocks" catastrophe.
  18. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    ANH Jabba was improved for the DVD release, but he still looks better in the other episodes. TPM Jabba is my favorite.
    The 2004 edit of the Greedo scene doesn't look bad at all, IMO. I've never felt that the change was needed, but I don't mind it, either. To me, it looks like Greedo suddenly realized that Han had drawn his blaster and pulled the trigger in panic, thereby hitting the wall.





    Greedo - he sucks
    /LM
    FRAGWAGON likes this.
  19. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    I totally agree. People were lost-anakin, padme, all the rebel soldiers and imperial soldiers too, luke's aunt and uncle, yoda, obi wan, and more, presumably. So melancholy was perfect for that part. Also, I can imagine people dancing to Victory celebration way more than Yub Nub.
  20. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    Morons, all of you.

    Keep that flaccid 1990s muzak to your yoga classes & home birth practice sessions, or the elevators which take you to them.

    I'd rather ROTJ had finished off with a dubstep remix of Jabba the Hutt's dialogue with the Sarlaac burping as a bassline, than the abomination that was 'Victory Celebration'.
    sinkie and CaptainHamYoyo like this.
  21. ezekiel22x Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 4
    Wub nub, wub nub. Wub nub blankie for youuuuu, and for meeeeeee! Celebrate the love!!! Celebrate the love, celebrate the lovvvveeeeeee!!!!

    ^
    Weep for this Cultural Heritage that has been lost.
    Mnhay27 likes this.
  22. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    Why do you hate victory celebration? Yub nub was not as fun to dance to, and it didn't have the energetic sound of victory celebrtaioon, and how victory celebration gradually got more dramatic as the song went along. The melancholy was awesome, the melancholic feel was epic way to end star wars.
  23. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    Dance to? It was a Star Wars film, not the bloody Rocky Horror Picture Show. Not that Victory Abomination was likely to get people dancing in the aisles anyway.

    And do you even know what 'melancholy' even means? How the hell could melancholy ever be described as 'awesome'?

    I stand by my blanket condemnation of those who prefer Victory Celebration over Yub Nub.
    sinkie and Yunners like this.
  24. WhiskeyGold Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2001
    star 4
    I did get one on DVD a few years ago, so i dont see why people say it didnt.
  25. sinkie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2004
    star 1
    We need to stickie the specs on the bonus DVD release so it does not need to be repeated why it is subpar....at best. Though yeah, at least we got that, a release.

    But again, it was a non anamorphic, laserdisc transfer with little to know remastering whatsoever...and now we've got blu-ray and the future of increased resolution to look forward to. Pop this disc onto a widescreen HD TV and unless you've got some sort of amazing chips in there to blow it up and miraculously add resolution and "quality" to it, you'll see it is a small rectangle in the middle of the screen surrounded by an ocean of crystalline black emptiness. But yes at least the pacing and original editing and effects are all there, so tonally it is true to the originals.
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