CT Is there any real reason why the OT will never get an unaltered release?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by IG-85, Sep 15, 2011.

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  1. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Theoretically, someone really into melancholy would see it as awesome.
  2. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

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    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    YEAH!!! MELANCHOLY! WOOOOO!!!
  3. ezekiel22x Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 4
    awesome: inspiring awe; showing or characterized by awe

    awe: an overwhelming feeling of reference, admiration, fear, etc., produced by that which is grand, sublime, extremely powerful, or the like

    I think most mature appreciators of art can attest to melancholic atmospherics in art in turn drawing out a powerful emotional response.

    Or to put it more simply :

    Wub nub dance party--happy, yeah, happy. I am happy. Did I tell you how happy I am?

    Victory Celebration--happy dance party still rightfully going on in some visuals, but the musical cues now bring a greater range of qualities to my mind, including a feeling of uplifting achievement punctuated here and there with the appropriate lingering notes of sadness after such a long conflict. In short, a greater range of emotions, all equally poignant. Awe.
  4. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

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    Would you include Bored_Spiderman_Fan in such a group?

    Literal definitions aside, I think you know what I meant to begin with. If you're going to say, 'The melancholy was awesome', you might as well describe the Anakin reveal as 'bittersweet to the max'.

    Anyway, Yub Nub sounds like an Ewok celebration song segueing into the finale of the Saga, as it was intended to. Victory Celebration sounds like something Luke keeps hidden in a secret compartment in his X-wing, along with his Celine Dion, Air Supply & Enya CDs.
    Last edited by Darth_Nub, Oct 29, 2012
  5. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    So you dislike it to be macho? Got it.





    Star Wars - inspiring manly denial since 1977
    /LM
  6. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

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    Uh, no - in fact, the very opposite is closer to my feelings on the matter. Unlike many fans of the Second Era, I don't feel the need to present myself as being so sophisticated, mature and hardcore, that all things Ewok need to be disparaged and forgotten.

    Putting aside my somewhat tongue-in-cheek approach to this debate (which should be blatantly obvious anyway, given the name I'm posting under), Yub Nub worked in 1983. It suits the context, the melody was upbeat to match an upbeat ending, and no one had a problem with it.
    Victory Celebration, however, is just limp, generic rubbish that doesn't really fit anything. Yes, the ending of ROTJ was changed for the 1997 SE's to include other planets, but the original theme could have simply been altered and extended to go beyond the celebrations on Endor (as it sort of does in the original anyway). Instead, it was tossed out in favour of this awful, bland muzak that I really hope John Williams had nothing to do with.

    It's not unlike the Lapti Nek vs Jedi Rocks situation - the original might have been a bit silly, dated and naff, but the replacement was just atrocious and so desperate to be 'with it' that it's embarrassingly dreadful, and dates even worse.
    Last edited by Darth_Nub, Oct 30, 2012
  7. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    I'm sorry you feel that way. IMO, the replacements are great. Especially Victory Celebration, which, BTW, was composed by JW. It's a grander, more appropriate ending to the Saga.





    Music - it replaces stuff
    /LM
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  8. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

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    Well, to each his own, and yes, it does come down to personal opinion.

    However, when I think of 'grand endings', in terms of SW music, the Throne Room music at the end of SW/ANH comes to mind, not Yub Nub or Victory Celebration. Yub Nub did fit the "Chief Chirpa BBQ extravaganza - all invited" on display at the end of ROTJ, but for me, Victory celebration doesn't really seem to fit either the OOT or SE version.

    But again, different strokes for different folks.

    And yes, I know JW is credited with Victory Celebration, I just wished he wasn't.
    Last edited by Darth_Nub, Oct 30, 2012
  9. Mnhay27 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 1
    When I first bought the 2006 DVDs, I did so specifically for the theatrical versions which I was very excited to own again. I took them home, watched them, and loved it; not giving any thought to the quality. It wasn't until recently when I saw people moaning about them online that I even noticed the "subpar" quality and then I started wishing they'd been made available in the same quality as the SE's.

    But a few days ago, I was channel surfing when I came across an old Clint Eastwood western that had just started. I was probably 3/4 of the way through the movie before I even realized that it hadn't been remastered and was kinda grainy and basically just looked old. It dawned on me then that the fact that it wasn't HD picture quality hadn't spoiled my enjoyment one iota. The only thing that was important was how good the movie was. With that in mind I put my ANH bonus disc on and came to the conclusion that there is nothing wrong with the quality at all. It is perfectly watchable and reasonable quality for a film that is 35 years old - even when blown up to fill most of my widescreen HD TV.

    So I'm not gonna dwell on it anymore. I'm just gonna be happy that I own the original theatrical cuts in a format that won't degrade like my old VHS.
  10. ezekiel22x Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 4
    I don't know who that is, so I guess it would depend (among other things) on how he/she feels about wub nub blankies.

    And I would love muzak if it all contained such vibrant yet haunting melodies that crescendo into epic chorus sections.
  11. sinkie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2004
    star 1
    Fact is, they will degrade, they are not impervious to the elements or their own chemical interaction with our world. Backups (illegal ultimately) will be required, not to mention the means of playing them could also go the way of the dodo (or laserdisc, vhs, betamax etc). Wanting to own the best quality version of one of your more treasured films is not a bad thing. If I count it as perhaps my favorite film(s) why wouldn't I want them in the best quality possible (and in the original theatrical release that I also adored and supported)? There is nothing irrational about this. I am the consumer and that's the product I want to buy. If I say nothing, there is little chance it would get produced. If there is market demand, then perhaps this might work to sway things in my favor. But the fact that the subpar bonus dvds only temporarily appeased us is tied to that original point: We know the discs won't stand the test of time, we know the lack of care and attention shown to their release means there is less hope of getting them again in the future on a new format that won't be so high def as to only further degrade the picture and highlight the lackluster transfer. If this transfer gets passed on to blu ray and eventually 2K or whatever...it's going to be a lot more painful to watch. This is a part of what drives those of us who chewed on the bone we got tossed back in 2006 and have now realized its lacking in flavor and nutrients! :)
  12. Mnhay27 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 1
    You misunderstood what I said - I've highlighted the important part.

    Of course DVDs degrade eventually, everything does. But in my lifetime? Probably not given that I'm likely to watch them once or twice a year.

    I also never said there was anything "irrational" about wanting them in the best possible quality, not sure why you felt the need to say that. I'm not in any way attempting to convince you or anyone else that they should be happy with the 2006 bonus discs. I'm just saying that I am, and I'm not gonna waste anymore time wishing for the OOT in HD. Thanks to the 2006 releases, I can watch the Star Wars I grew up with whenever I want.

    That'll do, Donkey. That'll do.
  13. sinkie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2004
    star 1
    Sorry if the tone sounded like I was calling you out! Didn't mean that at all, just that the fact is they will degrade and that doesn't sit well with me personally as I intended to live hopefully another 40 years at least! :) And didn't think you were saying it was irrational, just went on my rant about the quality and why it is rational. Sorry if it sounded like it was directed at you personally!
  14. Mnhay27 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 1
    LOL No problem. No offense taken.

    I too hope to be around for at least another 40 years. I have no real idea how long DVD's are expected to last but I'm sure they'll be usable for at least another couple of decades if I look after them (which I will!). Like I say, I'm happy with that for now. And to be honest, despite what Lucas says, I'd be surprised if they didn't get another release at some point in one format or another. But I'm not gonna worry about it or act like it's the end of the world if at some point I'm unable to watch the OOT again because I'll have already watched them several hundred times by then! At the end of the day, it's just not that big of a deal and I'm not gonna trawl the internet insulting Lucas and saying ridiculously stupid **** about how my childhood was "raped" like some utter morons feel compelled to do.

    As a wise man once said, Lucas didn't rape my childhood, he made my childhood.
  15. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    With Disney buying LFL...
  16. Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 1999
    star 7
    True, that is one potential upside. Now we might get the O-OT and the Holiday Special in a single collector's set.
  17. Obi-Ewan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2000
    star 4
    I'd love to have the O-OT, but can't Bea Arthur be allowed to rest in peace?
  18. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

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    Jul 2, 2004
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  19. Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus

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  20. TOSCHESTATION Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2003
    star 4
    "Peace sells...but who's buyin?"
  21. Rodimus1980 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2009
    I'm sure we will get a Unaltered Blu-ray release. But bear in mind how many changes Lucas did. Even little crap like cutting shots out in Star Wars when someone got shot. He wanted to make it safer for the kiddies. Disney has a long road ahead to restore the Original Trilogy to it's Theatrical versions.
  22. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 4
    [IMG]
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  23. gezvader28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2003
    star 4
    I don't think they actually cut the negative , no-one would do that , if he did then omg ! he really is an idiot .
  24. The-Eternal-Hero Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    Now that Disney owns Lucasfilm you can set your watch to a release of the pre-SE OT.
  25. The Corellian Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2012
    star 1
    The way I see it, Lucas is like any standard film-maker. Every director is always unsatisfied with their earlier efforts. I believe there is a quote from a book I read that says "Any piece of artwork is never finished". That's how I think Lucas views the OT.

    If George never releases a true HD version of the OOT, I'll be fine with it. I still have the numerous VHS versions I have, along with the double-pack DVD set that contains both the SE and the OOT from the laserdiscs. Not to mention that there are numerous fan restorations out there available for download, some of which are amazing with how much they have been cleaned up.
    Last edited by The Corellian, Nov 4, 2012
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