PT Is there anyone who actually likes the concept of Midi-chlorians?

A refutation as valid as the opposing side's.

 

"The Force is strong with this one." - Vader, ANH

In the same film he says "there is another", as opposed to "there are trillions of others because anyone else is just as good". Luke wasn't just anyone even in the OT. As Vader said, Luke did not yet realize his importance.

 

High potential --=-- high power

 

I getcha.

 

I quite like the concept. It doesn't contradict the OT in my opinion, because ROTJ in particular makes it clear that strength in the Force can run in families. That means it had to have some biological cause. As for Yoda's "growing in the force", it may simply be that anyone (who is Force sensitive) can grow stronger in the Force over time by using their ability, but that those with a higher midi-chlorian count have the potential to be stronger. The same way that anyone can run races, and by training and practise get faster, but those with more red blood cells have an advantage over someone with a lower red blood cell count who trains the same amount of time.

Look at it this way: most of the Jedi in the Clone Wars era would (Edit: if time-travel existed in the Star Wars universe ) have wiped the floor with Luke in A New Hope despite having lower midichlorian counts, but Luke's high midichlorian count meant that he could get stronger, faster, than those with a lower count.

 

It's a silly concept, but at least it's not overused in the PT.

 

I agree. I do enjoy that it was kept in TPM and not dragged out more than that.

 

Yeah it's only briefly mentioned in ROTS.

 

If it's biological then they don't need Luke. They could clone a thousand Jedi, a million.

They could show up at Vader's door with an army of cloned Yoda's

 

Don't mind it at all. In regards to the force Yoda in the OT established that "life creates it, makes it grow."

 

Yes, but he also tells us something very important about the nature of life. And that is the point people miss. His lesson is about the fundamental nature of life. And that lesson is that we are spiritual beings, and that our bodies do not matter. That our connection with the force is through the spirit, not the body. And certainly not force bacteria

 

That's what I was thinking. If it's biological also, why don't Jedi produce offspring to fuel stronger Jedi? TPM doesn't support biological midochlorians since every single Jedi has them and not every single Jedi has a relative that is strong with the force.

Schmi could have been recruited then since she was impregnated by midochlorians, though she wasn't a child.

 

All Yoda said was "Life creates it, makes it grow". That doesn't say that anyone can use the Force, and it's not a statement about the growth of an adept's strength in the Force.

 

Exactly, if anything there should be Jedi clans along family lines if you believe this biology based crap. It should be very different Jedi order, not made up of random stranger's babies that have to be found like lucky pennies

 

No. Freaking. Kidding.

 

How could you possibly know this?

This doesn't make sense. Anakin's conception didn't make her a Force sensitive.

They're in hiding, not running a clone lab with unspecified source of funding. Not to mention the fact that cloning of Force-sensitives might not be as simple as you seem to think.

Jedi rules get in the way of that.

 

Was the force strong with Schmi?

 

Not to my knowledge.

 

But she was a relative of Anakin's?

 

If the force was truly biological in nature, those rules would not exist. It would limit the talent pool too much. An order that can't find enough talented prospects will die out. If it truly runs in familiar lines, they can't ignore that.

And my point was actually more basic than that, if the force runs in family lines the order would have evolved in a different way. You probably wouldn't even have an order. You would have clans of force users. Family ties are strong.

And then there is the whole cloning thing.................................

 

Luke's Jedi training consists of physical conditioning in addition to pseudo-philosophy. Clearly "our bodies" are not entirely irrelevant in the vast cycle of existence portrayed in the films, especially in regards to crude little matters such as dealing with a war against an evil empire that is threatening the physical lives of an entire galaxy. If bodies don't matter and the force is available to anyone and everyone as long as they close their eyes and believe, then there's no reason to resist the empire.

 

Because of the attachment-darkside thing. Think about it: what's the one thing, more than any other, that would make someone do things they would normally consider evil? A threat to their child's life.

Edit: See also Anakin in the rest of ROTS after Padme tells him she's pregnant

 

They have around 10,000 people in TPM as it is. They don't appear to be in any danger of dying out "naturally". You only assume they must necessarily want access to more Jedi candidates, but you don't know their opinion on the matter. There is no rule that says the order must be as large as possible. And as stated above they have valid reasons for prohibiting Jedi families.

Cloning still isn't free, the OT Jedi are still in hiding, and the films still don't give you the evidence you need to prove that cloning Jedi is as simple as you think.

 

Have you read the sequel books? Families seem to work out for the most part in the Skywalker family.

 

I never said that everyone was equal, what I did say is that that connection is spiritual in nature. The link between the force and life is that they are both one and the same, they are both of the spiritual plane. That is the basis of his lesson. And he believes every word of it. People here would change that lesson, every discussion on this topic always boils down to people saying "Yoda says this, but he really means (insert explanation compatible with force bacteria here). It's bull. You use the word "pseudo-philosophy", I don't think Yoda would call it that. I think he would call it the foundation of Jedi thought, and the reason why he can lift a ship out a swamp. Nothing "pseudo" about that.

It's always a variation of the same thing. Don't listen to Yoda, listen to us tell you what he really meant.