Is there more to enjoy in a crappy fanfilm, or one that really aims to impress?

Right, well...here's what I'd do in such a case: make friends with people in the 501st, find out which ones disapprove of the new no-fan-films policy, and then ask them as individuals to be in your fan film, rather than asking the 501st as an organization. If they have their own ST armor, they'll probably go for it.

Just sayin'...

"Like the man says, there's no problems, only solutions." -Kevin Flynn, in Tron

 

IMHO, it's not about what everyone else thinks. If you spend all your time worrying about what everyone else thinks of your film, it won't end up being your film. If *you* had fun making it, and if *you're* happy with the way things have turned out, then I say it's a good film according to the only person who really matters. If you're not happy with it, then the only people to blame are the people who made it.

So I guess the short answer is the "personal itch to create" one.

 

Bugger! ^Above post was made by me. Wrong saved login ^

 

this is just me but i have a young son and when we were doing our lightsaber test we did some shots of him being a jedi and when he saw himself on the tv with a lightsaber he all most broke window he was that loud and i get the same feelings whem i see me
lightsabers are just damm cool and so are jedi for me thats why i am into making fanfilms

 

Spot on! Having fun with your kid rocks, I can't wait until my youngan is old enough to start making movies!!!!


Speaking generally; the trouble with the this internet thing, is that many of our 'private' or local past times are now (willingly) being subjected to international viewing and obviously criticism. It is a difficult issue....

....you wanna show the world what you have filmed in your backyard...

....trouble is, does the world wanna see it?

 

yep it the best feeling in the world to watch how much kids get a kick out of what your doing just a warning one you put a lightsaber in a 3/4 year olds hand is damm hard to get in out again

 

It sounds like you have a lot of fun with your kids, but can you please post in a more or less legible way from now on? Two sentences worth of punctuation and capitals isn't asking a lot.

 

I have been reading this topic earnestly siince it started. I have enjoyed watching it ebb and flow and move on and off topic. Yet, it continues to draw responses and the conversation continues. Thinking it over, I wanted to add my two cents.

At the heart seems to be the question, what is ART? What makes for something worth watching, regardless of the myriad problems it could still have? What makes the glossy film with high production value seem droll and the amatuer no-budget film seem charming?

Guess what? Philosophers since the days of Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle have been asking these very same quetsions! There are thousands of books covering the subject. Authors throughout the ages have penned essays, treatises, and text books trying to capture the nuances that define the characteristics of what makes something 'art' and what makes it junk. There are equally as many books that purport to teach people how to write, paint, draw, act, direct, photograph, film . . . etc.

Unfortunately, there is no formula. Sure, there are techniques to improve your work. I am in no way saying that those books, essays, or treatments are not worth reading. In point of fact, you can never learn enough about your craft!

To try to circle around to Fruity's topic, I believe there is always something to learn from watching other peoples work. To me the question of one v. the other (for those that may have lost track, the comparison being discussed is if there is more to enjoy in a 'crappy' fanfilm or if there is more to enjoy in one that 'aims to impress'?) is a bit superfluous. There is an equal amount to enjoy from both -- albeit the continuum moves from left to right with some overlap. (WTF does that mean!?!)

If you had to list achievements along a line, putting the most basic of items on the left-hand side and moving to the right with ever increasing levels of difficulty, you will notice that everything on the line is worthy of your attention. Whether small items or large, every lesson learned or achievement is important.

On the small and perhaps 'crappy' fanfilm, the things to note may range from 'pride at completing something' to 'sheer excitement on the part of the actors.' Something I often tell to my people (employees, actors, crew), though I do it with tongue-in-cheek, is the remember, "You are never truly worthless; you can always serve as a bad example." I believe the same goes for any fanfilm.

On the larger, "aims to impress" side of the continuum, you have VFX, sets, acting, cinematography, etc... As we move along the line, the complexity goes up and thus, so do our expectations. The camera-work we expect in a first-time film being shot by a 15 year old is going to be lower than a one being shot by a 30 year old. It's a moving target and thus makes it very difficult to quantify.

The same shot we enjoy from a group of kids may look terrible with a group of experienced actors. It's not something we are necessarily conscious of when watching. It's like we are calculating all of the achievements along that line and we weigh our expectations accordingly. The higher the expectation, the more difficult it is to impress.

I know I am coming at this from the negative, rather than the positive, but it is sometimes easier to see the nature of the debate when inverted. To me, what I enjoy from the small (crappy) film is the fact that someone actually went from concept to completion! Sometimes there is a gem buried in the muck -- a particular camera-angle, a moment of verisimilitude in the acting, a well-executed sword move. Sometimes the gem we gleen is in seeing what NOT to do! AND THESE ARE THE SAME THINGS WE LOOK FOR IN THE BIGGER FILM! We just have higher expectations and thus it needs to be a significantly more impressive camera angle, acting moment, or choreography.

As filmmakers (or even film watchers) we need to be aware of this continuum and recognize that all of the heart and passion in the world cannot make the viewer lower their expectations artificially. We have n

 

As far as passion in films goes... and I've only just started reading the thread, I'd finish it but I have to go to class...

A lot of time, there is passion, but I think that sometimes production values mask it up. I'm looking at iSpy. That was pure passion right there, a bunch of friends getting together and making a film. You can tell that we had fun with it. But then, that was also a comedy. Now we're doing a serious film. We're every bit as passionate, probably moreso. But we've heightened production values, and it doesn't show as much. If you weren't on set, you don't realize the fun we've had doing it. On-set, we have that same passion, but the style of film doesn't let the unbridled joy show through. Film noir-ish... sorta.

I'm just saying, don't judge how much passion the creators had on only the final product.

 

By the same token, if the final product isn't any good--and I don't mean solely, or even mainly, production values; I mean it lacks dramatic oomph--how much passion could they really have had? Part of passion is taking pride in your work and honing your craft; true, a first film will probably have a lot of rough edges, but even allowing for that, sometimes films that people claimed to have been passionate about seem to have a lot of slapdash construction, amateurish writing, and best-friend acting. That doesn't sound like passion to me, that sounds like half-assery.

Just sayin'...

 

I'm not saying the final product is crappy. Look at Revelations. There was a lot of passion in that; I'm not saying it's any more or less than in Kid Fight (that one that Ryan filmed with a couple kids at a camp or something), but I'm saying that there's definitly passion there.

That's not the full scope of what Fig's talking about here, but I thought I'd at least share my view on that one point.

 

Righto!
If you look at the first drawing of a 3-year old you wouldn't say "that sucks". You would only look at the positive aspects because you can't expect anything that is siginificantly more perfect. If the same drawing was from a teenager you would probably wonder why it's so bad.

Hence, if you want to show your film in the cinema, you should at least come up with something that doesn't look like your first drawing. You can do that around here, though. Thus there may really be a lot to enjoy in a "crappy" fanfilm as long as it's only shown on a platform like this.

 

What is your guys opinion about that Shadows of the Empire action figure movie that came out like a month ago? I know it wasn't in english. What catagory do you put it in since obviously who ever made it they got the story straight from the comics, so not his story. But it was made really well (other then its not in enlish and no lightsaber effects)

 

I wouldn't watch it, yet I respect it immensely. I don't know how that factors into all these conversations, but it's interesting to think of.

I can't see me being entertained by a movie starring entirely inanimate objects. I think it's a concept that can be used in very small doses for humor (see Fruits), but isn't a very good medium for longform storytelling.

But, that's a gigantic endeavour, and I can't do anything but give him props for finishing it.

 

I can't see me being entertained by a movie starring entirely inanimate objects.

See: CHACT.

 

CHACT has exactly three lines spoken by an inanimate object, so that's a bad example. Fruits is entirely a dialogue between - booyah - Fruits, which is why I used it as an example.

 

I was making fun of your actors, actually. But okay.

 

I figured, juts wanted to be sure. But to be honest, the acting in Fruits was even worse.

 

Hehe. Yeah.

I agree with the original post, to a point.

Unless if the production values are REALLY high up there, high enough that I figure it'd be worth watching to see if it's possible to duplicate cheaply, I wont' bother watching it when it doesn't engage me.

I just watched this one movie for the first time yesterday (Polcheck Chronicles), and I loved it from the moment I saw it. I couldn't understand half of what was said, the camera guys shadow was in the shot a bunch, this and that and this, but I couldn't stop watching, because it was a fun movie. YOu could even hear people laughing in the background at times.

Which is why I liked it. It felt real. It felt like there were people trying to entertain me, inestead of impress me.

In fact, that's the defining thing for me. Entertain me, don't impress me. Cause I'm hard to impress. I'll bet that sounds shallow, along with what I'm going to say, but I don't think it is, and I think it's pretty well reflected by most people here.

So many of these films recently are all trying to be the next big thing, which is cool, cause I like those, but... yeah.

To be honest, unless if a movie engages me emotionally, gets me interested, I'll never watch it again (except for the effects parts if they're well done, cause hey, I like effects). Heck, I'll probably not even watch it the first time. It's just not worth it. I don't care about elaborate plots. I could care less about evil empires and villians, if I'm not engaged. If I skim through a movie and see a bunch of people talking, I'll give it a chance, but... yeah. Movies that are mostly exposition can bore me, because many times they're so busy explaining the plot that they don't explain the characters. I never care at ALL about if there's going to be a rebellion, or an underground cult, unless if it MEANS something to me. "There's an evil cult, and it killed someone, so we must fight them"... That could be a GREAT story, but if that's just thrown out there without giving me any reason to actually dislike this cult, besides just hearing they killed someone, then I won't be interested.

What if the person killed was the hero's sister? Nope. Not good enough. Unless if I feel a loss as the death of the sister, it wont mean anything to me. It may make the hero look more human or something, but even THAT wont interest me.

What I'm trying to say is, if I don't care, I don't care, and no amount of postwork is gonna change that. Unless if it's fun post work.

Like motion tracking giant fruits to people's heads.

 

I think the only thing that matters in a fanfilm is a really good/intense duel. The only Fanfilm that I really like, and watch over and over, is "versus" there is just something about the fight that I love, and there are no other fanfilms that have really exciting duels.... I think if you are going to make a big fanfilm like revelations, you should spend a few months coreographing a really good duel.

 

Whoo, that's it right there. I might not be impressed by one thing or another... but danged if I find some really low-budget stuff entertaining. PA Wars, right here. Not impressive, just entertaining. Being impressed helps, but I'm just as entertained by Losing the Game (Fig) as I am by Complete Breakfast (Dastolis). The latter is a lot more impressive, but in its own right, the first is just as entertaining.