Is TPM the greatest film ever made ?

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by Darth-Walken, May 27, 2003.

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  1. Son_Of_Kurtzman Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2002
    star 2
    These are just opinions, people. No reason to be jerks to the person who started this thread or anyone else who thinks TPM was great or even the greatest film of all time. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and no one is stopping you from making your own pompous remarks, because, well, after all, everyone is an expert on the topic of cinema.
  2. Melda Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2003
    star 1
    Well, I happen to know of many people who just can't 'get into' Star Wars... so they probably wouldn't say that Star Wars was the best series ever made. :p

    (I personally don't understand how they can't like any of it, but oh well).
  3. Agent_Smith_ Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2003
    I think that it's a brilliant film ..... but just not the best ever... i thought batman , ESB , spiderman and ANH were just better than it .
  4. JohnWilliams00 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2002
    star 4
    I think every film school across the country should have their students study the script of TPM, inside-out. Every aspiring filmmaker should remember the acting and direction of Episode I. Film art as we know it would advance considerably if we could only learn to embrace this much-maligned movie.

    TPM. Now that's craft!
  5. Darth_Insidious Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2002
    star 4
    ILM broke new ground of photo-realism, in CGI. The first Matrix paled in comparison, and Gollum, the Harry Potter CGI, Spider-man... none of these have been as technically good as what has been done for TPM and AOTC.

    John Gaeta used Image Based Rendering to create photorealistic CG environments in The Matrix that most people still don't know were fake. It succeded more in the realism area than TPM did.

    TPM was not a ground-breaking VFX film, it was everything we'd seen before thrown into one movie. The effects were damn good, but hardly grpund-breaking.
  6. Scott3eyez Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2001
    star 4
    I don't think TPM is the greatest film ever made by quite a stretch. It is far too reliant on another particular 5 films to make any real sense for it to be called a great film in it's own right.

    However, it does stand as an episode as good as the other 4 (so far) in the greatest saga ever made, IMHO.
  7. Darth-Walken Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2001
    star 4
    Great feedback, everyone ! I don't mind all the flaming ! I used to get far worse, on the old school playground [face_laugh]

    I deliberately mentioned some of my favourite films, in my opening post. For instance, Gene Hackman is one of my favourite actors, and I think that The French Connection is the pinnacle of his film career thus far ( with The Conversation running a close second ). The first two Godfather films are terrific. I love John Woo's early work in Hong Kong.

    I even recognise that many of these films work far better than TPM on an artistic level, and were truly original and groundbreaking in their day. Some of them contain far superior acting. Some of them are better written. I own and cherish most of them on DVD.

    But.... sometimes.... you can just watch a film, and enjoy it so much, that it becomes far more than the sum of it's parts. For me, TPM is one such film. I find it exhilirating, funny, uplifting, and a great escape from some of the boredom of the average day. So for me, it is one of the greatest films ever made :) That's based purely on how much fun I get out of watching it, and laughing at Ric Olie, grinning at McGregor's accent, enjoying the lightsabre duel, marvelling at the effects etc. I just love it !

    I admit, I was being a bit tongue in cheek with this topic [face_laugh]

    But I just can't understand some of the bashing that this film gets. I know it was eagerly anticipated, and it didn't meet some peoples expectations. But just as many people love it for what it is.
  8. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    TPM was not a ground-breaking VFX film, it was everything we'd seen before thrown into one movie. The effects were damn good, but hardly grpund-breaking.

    If you say so. [rolls_eyes]
  9. Darth-Walken Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2001
    star 4
    TPM definitely was ground breaking, in terms of effects ! Jar Jar was amazing for 1999. The Pod Race was spectacular. The film contained the most CGI shots in one film, up until that time. The Naboo field battle was very daring. Nothing like that had ever been attempted before.
  10. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    I do think that some of the effects in TPM were ground-breaking. I'm not aware of a fully-CGI main character before TPM (if I'm wrong, plesae let me know).

    Ironic, seeing as you're the moderator on a forum dedicated to the film.

    Mods are picked on behavior, presence in the forum, understanding of the TOS, and posting history, *not* on opinion.
  11. Luscious Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2001
    star 1
    Is TPM the greatest film ever made?

    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah. That's the funniest thing I've read in a long, long time.
  12. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    "Ironic, seeing as you're the moderator on a forum dedicated to the film."

    Mods are picked on behavior, presence in the forum, understanding of the TOS, and posting history, *not* on opinion.


    It's the fact that you fulfill the second qualification on a forum dedicated to a film that you openly dislike that I find particularly ironic.
  13. AdamBertocci Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2002
    star 7
    Durwood, I made a post about six hundred pages back noting that some of the most open bashers in this thread post primarily in the prequel forums... or in just TPM.

    Fine with me I say. Keeps 'em off the streets.

    Quix is a fine moderator and able to judge thread worthiness based on its ability to foster good discussion and not whether he likes the content.

    Unlike Oakes who just locks any thread bashing Spielberg! ;) [face_mischief]


    Rick McCallum loves you!
  14. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    I've not made a single comment about his moderating skill. I just find it odd that someone would spend enough time in a forum dedicated to a film they openly dislike to be given the duties as a moderator. More to the point, why do folks spend so much time talking about something they obviously don't like?
  15. Darth-Walken Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2001
    star 4
    Because they do like it really :) Everyone loves TPM. It's just that some of us love it more than others.
  16. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    If you spent some time looking into the thousands of posts I have made in this forum, Durwood, you would see that while *overall* I dislike the film, there is quite a lot that I do like and want to discuss. I'm at about 40/60 like/dislike for TPM, 60/40 for AOTC, 90/10 for ANH, 95/5 for TESB, and 80/20 for ROTJ. For the record, like cbjedi and Oakessteve before me, I'm involved in both the Sanctuary and the TPMDF.

    I don't think it's quite as ironic as you make it out to be. Regardless, this is all off-topic for this thread.
  17. yodaschum Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2002
    star 4
    Ditto, the great Quixotic one.


    Darth_Walken: You have great taste in films!
  18. Jedi_Learner Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2002
    star 5
    Not the greatest in my opinion, but a splendid Sequel to the Star Wars Trilogy that deserves high praise. I won't let anyone tell me otherwise. :D
  19. Clonetrooper1000 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2003
    star 3
    Darth_Insidious: "John Gaeta used Image Based Rendering to create photorealistic CG environments in The Matrix that most people still don't know were fake."

    Let me just educate you a little about The Matrix CG and Gaeta! ;)

    Firstly, Gaeta did not create digital envronments, he supervised the creation of digital 3-D backgrounds.

    The reason they are not noticed by many viewers is because they were CG creations of real objects. The backgrounds in the fight scenes for example, were only done by IBR to ease the use of the Bullet-time effects in the foreground. When you use IBR to create real locations and backgrounds it is effective, but its use in The Matrix was not groundbreaking.

    However, for fully realised 3-D ENVIRONMENTS (which enclose the characters), TPM and subsequent other big-budget films have used ILM's established CGI techniques. TPM was the first to do this effectively. So it was actually groundbreaking VFX in TPM, whether you like it or not.

    A final point: the use of IBR from Gaeta in The Matrix was not groundbreaking. Why is this?

    1. Firstly, it was not groundbreaking because it had been pioneered previously in Paul Debevec's The Campanile Movie.

    2. Secondly, because it was not Gaeta and his team that implemented it. George Borshukov and his team that had pioneered the groundbreaking use of IBR on The Campanile Movie, were brought in by Gaeta to apply their technology to The Matrix. FACT!

    I seem to remember telling you this when you brought up image-based rendering before, but you chose to ignore it. ;)

    EDIT: Creator of The Campanile Movie, Paul Debevac was originally inspired into VFX by the computer work done at ILM. Just goes to show that even ILM influenced the VFX artists on The Matrix.
  20. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    Feh...

    Double Dare inserted kids into videogame environments back in the mid 80s. Old technology...

    ;)
  21. Darth-Walken Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2001
    star 4
    Some good discussion going on here :) At the end of the day, we are all Star Wars fans. Some of us love all of the movies. Others only love some of them. There are those who like some things about each of the movies and dislike other things. But none of us would be here, if we didn't at least care about something to do with the Star Wars saga.
    It's easy to lose sight of that sometimes. Especially when people bring other franchises into the discussions here, things often turn quite ugly. It's just good to sit back from time to time, and just relax.

    Nothing is quite that serious :)

  22. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2001
    star 6
    It's not the greatest, but it's definately one of the greatest, IMO :D
  23. solo77 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2002
    star 5
  24. solo77 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2002
    star 5
  25. solo77 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2002
    star 5
    Whoops - double post, my bad.
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