Is TPM the greatest film ever made ?

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by Darth-Walken, May 27, 2003.

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  1. Darth_Insidious Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2002
    star 4
    Clonetrooper, I believe I was even the one who told out that the people who had come up with IBR were brought in by Gaeta to work on The Matrix. They also won an award for their work.

    Didn't I also tell you a while ago that the first movie to effectively use full 3D environments was Under Siege 2?
  2. Clonetrooper1000 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2003
    star 3
    Darth_Insidious: "Clonetrooper, I believe I was even the one who told out that the people who had come up with IBR were brought in by Gaeta to work on The Matrix."

    Well, lets see. You constantly claimed Gaeta was the man who first used IBR succesully in The Matrix. I told you he was not. ;)

    Darth_Insidious: "Didn't I also tell you a while ago that the first movie to effectively use full 3D environments was Under Siege 2?"

    When will you learn the difference between 'backgrounds' and 'environments'. Under Siege 2 marked an effective use of 'background plates', not fully encapsulating spacial environments.
  3. Darth_Insidious Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2002
    star 4
    Well, lets see. You constantly claimed Gaeta was the man who first used IBR succesully in The Matrix. I told you he was not.

    Gaeta is the reason they used image-based rendering in the films. He took notice of it, he brought in the guys who created it.

    When will you learn the difference between 'backgrounds' and 'environments'. Under Siege 2 marked an effective use of 'background plates', not fully encapsulating spacial environments.

    I'm curious to learn what exactly you consider a "spacial environment". Why don't you show me a screen from TPM?
  4. Clonetrooper1000 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2003
    star 3
    Darth_Insidious: "I'm curious to learn what exactly you consider a "spacial environment"--"

    3-D environments differ from backgrounds. Its self-explanatory if you think about it. To class as an 'environment' the 'objects' are spread throuout the depth-of-field. Whereas the background is exactly that - a background upon which foreground events are placed against. Under Siege 2 was succesful in the adaptive use of 'background plates'.

    CGI has been used for years to create 3-D environments. However, in TPM, ILM were able to apply truly realistic environments that completely and seemlessly interact with the live-action and CG characters that live and act within them. Characters walk through 100% CG doors, hallways, rooms and settings; there are CG objects placed from front to back of the depth-of-field and characters live and act amongst them.

    I am not going to show screen images cause I can describe the scenes and you can go and watch them again. The Gungan Swamps; The Queen's Quarter's on Coruscant; The Underwater City. These are all excellent examples.
  5. cruizerdave Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2003
    Is TPM the greatest film ever made ?
    In a word,


    NO!
  6. Darth-Walken Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2001
    star 4
    TPM is certainly one of the most discussed films ever :)
  7. MetalGoldKnight Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 4
    Off the top of my head, movies I think are much, much better then TPM:

    The Matrix
    Matrix: Reloaded
    Back to the Future Trilogy
    The Godfather, Parts 1 and 2
    Indiana Jones Trilogy
    Fellowship of the Ring
    The Two Towers
    Braveheart
    Dune and it's sequels
    Star Wars Ep. 2-6

    No, doesn't seem like the best movie ever at all, or even something to be on the top 10... or 20... or 50... The only way I could ever see it winning such a title was if they made a list of the best film series ever, and TPM was included with the rest of the Star Wars films.

    Nothing against TPM... I don't think it's a bad movie at all, it's definitly an above average film and much better then the average popcorn movie Hollywood churns out on a weekly basis, and it's very neccesary in terms of the overall story of Star Wars, it just doesn't live up to the standards of excellence set by the other films in the series.
  8. AdamBertocci Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2002
    star 7
    I'll play.
    Off the top of my head, movies I think are better than TPM.

    MUCH BETTER
    Ghostbusters
    A New Hope
    Attack of the Clones
    Dogma
    Clerks
    The Fellowship of the Ring

    BETTER
    Ghostbusters II
    Return of the Jedi
    The Empire Strikes Back
    The Rocky Horror Picture Show

    MARGINALLY BETTER to ABOUT THE SAME
    Mallrats
    Chasing Amy
    South Park: Bigger, Longer and Uncut
    Monty Python and the Holy Grail
    The Fifth Element
    Being John Malkovich
    The Exorcist
    Dark City
    Robin Hood: Men in Tights


    That's about it. I'd say TPM fits in around with the flicks on the third list.
    For me, anyway.


    Rick McCallum loves you!
  9. Darth-Walken Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2001
    star 4
    Some interesting choices there...
  10. BobaFrank Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 17, 2001
    star 5
    I love TPM but its not better than the OT. ANH is my favorite movie but Shindler's List is quite possibly the greatest movie ever made.

    The best part of TPM is the underlying political corruption theme. I dare a movie to do it better. I've also done 2 separate polls on the greatest sword fight in cinema history and DOTF has won both times.

    Greatest Movie ever made? Probably not. But much better than the criticism it got.

    On a side note, I could have sworn I saw bullet time effects in BLADE which was released before Matrix. I might be wrong. Matrix's SPFX were on par w/TPM but there was NO WAY the sound editing or sound effects in the Matrix were better than TPMs. I'm still ticked about that one with the Academy.
  11. Darth-Walken Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2001
    star 4
    I don't think you'll find many movies that portray underlying political corruption, better than TPM. But as your last point confirms, you only have to look at the Academy to find such things [face_laugh]
  12. BobaFrank Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 17, 2001
    star 5
  13. Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    "The best part of TPM is the underlying political corruption theme. I dare a movie to do it better."

    Four words: All the President's Men.
  14. Darth_Insidious Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2002
    star 4
    I am not going to show screen images cause I can describe the scenes and you can go and watch them again. The Gungan Swamps; The Queen's Quarter's on Coruscant; The Underwater City. These are all excellent examples.

    So when Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan first meet up with Jar Jar, they were bluescreened into a CG environment? Wasn't that filmed at an actual location?

    The Queens Quarter's on Coruscant weren't all CG, and Otoh Gunga didn't look totally real.
  15. Son_Of_Kurtzman Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2002
    star 2
    I have to admit to not seeing even half of the movies you guys are naming. Though I did see the two Dune films of Sci-Fi Channel, and I thought they were incredibly awful. The 1970s was the Golden Age for Science Fiction films, IMHO, in the same way the '40s and '50s were for Crime films and the silent era was for Comedy and Horror.
  16. AdamBertocci Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2002
    star 7
    I have to admit to not seeing even half of the movies you guys are naming.

    So that we can all benefit from each other's film knowledges and tastes, I'm gonna tell you why I mentioned mine. (I'm going to leave out ones that I'm assuming you all HAVE seen.)

    Ghostbusters - funniest movie ever IMHO; high-concept comedy at its best; sheer perfection, or as close as film will ever come
    Dogma - God re-examined in comedic context; funny, witty and will get your mind moving. May be offensive to the deeply religious.
    Clerks - Basically just a bunch of dirty jokes, but it's funny as hell. May be offensive to prudish types.
    The Rocky Horror Picture Show - I do not unconditionally recommend this to everyone. But it's a great musical, transferred to the screen better than nearly any other musical ever, with addictive and riotous midnight ritual surrounding it.
    Mallrats - Dirty jokes again in 80s-comedy style.
    Chasing Amy - A truly modern romance, this will break your heart after it makes you laugh. Also, contains best Star Wars reference ever.
    South Park: Bigger, Longer and Uncut - One of the smartest films ever made (oddly enough). Comments on censorship, spoofs musicals, makes fart jokes. May be offensive to basically everyone.
    The Fifth Element - Insane sci-fi. Makes no frickin' sense, but it's a ride. This is what Star Wars would be like if it was directed by a thirteen-year-old kid tripping on some weeeeird stuff. Fun!
    Being John Malkovich - The most original film ever? This'll mess with your head and you'll scream for more.
    The Exorcist - Scariest movie ever made.
    Dark City - If you liked the ideas but not the execution of The Matrix, this is for you. Less anime, more film noir. Less fighting, more mystery-solving. No Keanu, a good deal of Richard O'Brien.
    Robin Hood: Men in Tights - Mel Brooks' best IMHO. Immature, but what do you expect?


    Rick McCallum loves you!
  17. Darth-Walken Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2001
    star 4
    I just watched it again for the 128th time, and it is still a work of monumental, and unsurpassed genius :)
  18. AdamBertocci Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2002
    star 7
    Who COUNTS the number of times they see a movie on video?! :p

    Hey, whatever floats your boat I guess.


    Rick McCallum loves you!
  19. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    Darth Walken

    Perhaps give us some specific reasons(visual, pacing, thematics)why you see it as the greatest film ever made.

    Here's a list, just off the top of my head, of films IMHO are not better than TPM:

    Ghostbusters 2
    Caddyshack 2
    Home Alone 2
    Home Alone 3
    Batman and Robin
    Batman Returns
    Batman Forever
    Superman IV
    Superman III
    Any of the Timothy Dalton or Pierce Brosnan Bond films.


    Here's a list of films definately better, IMHO, than TPM:

    The Godfathers 1 & 2
    Days of Heaven
    The Right Stuff
    Back to the Future
    Raiders of the Lost Ark
    All the Kurosawa films except Rhapsody in August
    Hitchcock's films from 1952 to 1960(the period from Dial M for Murder to Psycho).
    The Sea Hawk
    Robin Hood
    Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon
    Field of Dreams
    Lonesome Dove(TV but still better than TPM)
  20. DARTH_ABBADON Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2002
    star 4
    Robin Hood: Men in Tights - Mel Brooks' best IMHO. Immature, but what do you expect?

    Theres no way it beats Blazing Saddles! :p



    Mel Brooks loves you!
  21. DARTH_ABBADON Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2002
    star 4
    Any of the Timothy Dalton or Pierce Brosnan Bond films.

    Yeah, and add the George Lazenby one to that too.


    It's more entertaining than The Big Lebowski.


    NEVER!!!!!!!!

    I should have read your first post, I would have realized how deep the delusion went. :mad:
  22. Darth-Walken Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2001
    star 4
    I'm not deluded, D_A :) I love The Big Lebowski. It's probably the best comedy film I have seen, since Withnail And I. It's perfectly written, brilliantly acted, and it is my favourite Coen brothers movie.

    If you look back at my first post, I deliberately list a variety of films that I personally consider to be classics, and that I own and cherish on DVD. Other people have put forward other good examples.

    But for me personally, TPM ( along with the Star Wars saga as a whole ), goes beyond every other film I have ever seen. It can't even really be explained by such things as editing, cinematography, acting etc. It's just something that I love :)

  23. Oakessteve Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 9, 1999
    star 6
    I thihk the author of this thread ought sit down and watch The Bicycle Thieves, or Festen, and see how he feels about The Phantom Menace then. The Phantom Menace is, in my opinion, no where near the greatest film ever made. It might be one of your favourite films ever, in which case, jolly good, but I do not think for one moment it's the greatest film ever made. I'm a huge fan of Star Wars, but I don't think it's one of the greatest filsm ever made either. Yes, it's certainly good, and definitely belongs in the top twenty, or even the top ten, but I just don't think it's the best film ever made. Not by a long shot. At least, in my opinion, at any rate.
  24. Darth-Walken Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2001
    star 4
    Well, if it belongs in your top ten, or top twenty, then that's still pretty good going !

    For me, the things that really lift it to another level, are McGregor's forced accent ( it never fails to make me grin ), Ric Olie, Poof's ridiculous neck, the cheesy one liners, Maul vs Obi Wan and McDiarmid :)

    The whole thing is just so entertaining :) I don't know why so many people seem so intent on bashing it !

  25. anidanami124 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    What Steve said I like TPM. For me and this is just for me TESB and AOTC a far better then TPM. I have mroe a top seven which looks like this:

    AOTC
    ESB
    ANH
    TPM
    ROTJ
    LOTR:TTT
    LOTR:FOTR

    It may change later after LOTR:ROTK and Ep3 because I don't know where they will go. So it will go form top seven to top nine. The 10th fav film for me is The Ring. 1st movie that ever made me jump. That's way it is number 10.

    But I also like: The Wizerd of Oz. I like Superman 1 and 2 I like Batman 1 and 2. There are some other movies I like I just can't think of there names. I have to find them ;) :p
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