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CT Is Vader openly a Sith?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by purplerain, Apr 5, 2014.

  1. purplerain

    purplerain Jedi Knight star 4

    Sep 14, 2013
    People call him "Lord" and "Darth". However, I doubt Palpatine would want anybody who's connected to the Empire to openly be a Sith. What's going on here?
    Darth Dnej likes this.
  2. Rachel_In_Red

    Rachel_In_Red Jedi Knight star 3

    May 12, 2013
    I don't know that the word Sith meant much to folks by the time of TPM and beyond. They had been "extinct for a millennia" and even Yoda and Co. could not figure the whole thing out until it was too late. And once Palpatine finally had the ultimate power that he had been scheming to attain, I don't think there would have been much point in showing his true colors as a Sith. He ruled with an iron fist, of course, but I don't think he had any intention of educating the general public on the Sith philosophy.
    Granger and Mr. K like this.
  3. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

    Aug 19, 2003
    only the jedi know of the sith or at least know very much about them. no one else really cares what a sith lord is.
  4. TheChosenSolo

    TheChosenSolo Jedi Master star 4

    Dec 9, 2011
    For all the average Imperial citizen knows, Darth Vader is the name of the man in the black suit with the scary helmet. He didn't exist before the Empire's rule began, and Vader had no intention of being referred to as Anakin Skywalker. That's why he's publicly regarded as Darth Vader, even though they don't really understand that's a Sith title. Now, Palpatine (as far as we know) never revealed his identity as Darth Sidious, so there wouldn't be a correlation there.
  5. SlashMan

    SlashMan Jedi Master star 4

    Feb 5, 2012
    To the general public, the Sith was a cult long lost to history. People didn't really understand the implications of the Sith; that was only the mission of the Jedi.
    DarthIshyZ likes this.
  6. Darth Nerdling

    Darth Nerdling Force Ghost star 4

    Mar 20, 2013
    He came out of the closet in an interview with Barbara Walters. He wanted to be able to march in Sith Pride parades without feeling ashamed. Down deep we all want our true identities to be loved.
  7. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jun 28, 2001
    The return of the Sith was known during the Clone Wars, but Dooku was never called Darth Tyranus by the people of the Republic, because they didn't know his Sith name. No one knew that Emperor Palpatine was really Darth Sidious. When Vader came along, the most devout of the Empire's citizens didn't think anything of it. Those who were skeptical, realized that Vader was a Sith Lord and the Emperor was not to be trusted. These were the ones who supported the Alliance.
  8. DarthGelatinous

    DarthGelatinous Jedi Master star 2

    May 15, 2001
    Clearly, Vader is a closet Sith. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
    Kombrink, Darth Cyn and purplerain like this.
  9. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

    Sep 2, 2012
    In the ANH novelization, one of the people at the conference says "This Sith Lord forced on us by the Emperor will be our undoing".

    I could see Vader being fairly open about his Sith affiliation.
    Bail B. Baobab and purplerain like this.
  10. geniusofmozart

    geniusofmozart Jedi Youngling

    Mar 31, 2014
    Yes. Tarkin, in the movie, also notes that Vader has Force powers.

    In my view, however, it wasn't really important in the Imperial era. Some people may have known and some may not have, but I don't see any reason why Vader would not have been open about it.
    Iron_lord likes this.
  11. PodracingSkywalker

    PodracingSkywalker Jedi Knight star 1

    Apr 1, 2014
    Yeah, I'm sure Vader had zero qualms with being open about his Sith Lord...ness? He didn't go around flaunting, but he wasn't ashamed either, imo.
  12. Among the Clouds

    Among the Clouds Jedi Grand Master star 4

    May 18, 2001
    I'm sure anyone educated enough to know what a Sith was probably figured it out. Not only because of his name, but also because he didn't seem to hide his ability to use Force powers or wield a lightsaber. Nor did he keep quiet about the power of the Force. The general public probably wouldn't have placed too much weight on it though since the Jedi (the eternal enemy of the Sith), were the ones who were made out to be the bad guys in ROTS.

    DARTHLINK Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Feb 24, 2005
    Ozzel: "Lord Vader, we've just jumped out of lightspeed and are preparing to-haaack!"

    Piett: <looks at Ozzel without any hint that he's scared that this man is randomly choking out of nowhere>

    *Muuuuuch later*

    Vader: "Don't fail me again...Admiral."

    <Leaves Piett who is ashen and possibly shaking>

    Yeah, I think they all know what Vader's capable of. Why do you think they're so afraid to even be in the same room as he? Get Needa angry, he'll yell at you and fill out a disciplinary report on you. Vader? You will not be leaving his office alive.
    Iron_lord likes this.

    JEDI-RISING Force Ghost star 6

    Apr 15, 2005
    I don't think he went around talking about being a Sith, but it's obvious everyone knew he was a Force user. It would be interesting what was being whispered. obviously it wasn't that many years , even by ep4 , since the Jedi had been wiped out.
  15. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Jedi Master star 4

    Apr 27, 2014
    Difficult question to answer. If you mean by Sith that he practices the Dark Side willingly, then yes. However, if you mean does he adhere to the doctrines and deep belief structure of the Sith Race then probably no. Sith is more difficult to use than Jedi. While it has been used to describe the followers of Bogan, The Dark Side, the truth is there is the often debated separation between a Dark Jedi and a Sith. Is a Sith born a Sith, like the race that was conquered? Is a Sith someone who is powerful in the Dark Side of the Force like Revan or Darth Sidious? Or is Sith a philosophy or code of beliefs? Is it all of the above? I frankly think Vader is not a Sith and I make the distinction between those who were trained from childhood to be Dark Force Users and those who fell from the path of Light. Since Vader fell, I label him a Dark Jedi. Sidious is a Sith in that he believes the doctrines of the Sith, and was trained to be a Sith from youth.
  16. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

    Sep 2, 2012
    Dooku is consistently referred to as a Sith, and has been a Jedi even longer than Vader has.
  17. KeithyT

    KeithyT Jedi Knight star 2

    Apr 17, 2014
    I think it was on one of the Topps blue series bubble gum cards. So yeah, he was outed...
  18. Dameron

    Dameron Jedi Master star 4

    Apr 8, 2014
    In Episode I, multiple Trade Federation honchos see/hear Sidious identify himself as a Sith. We don't know exactly what that name means to them, but they clearly fear the Sith and and are apprehensive about having one with them. Battle droids are also present in the hangar with Maul when he first fires up his lightsaber. Likewise, Vader shows off his power at the expense of Imperial officers, talks with Tarkin about his Jedi past, and battles Obi-Wan in front of his troops. In ROTJ, Sidious and Vader discuss Sith business where the troops can overhear.

    Many people probably know the fact that "Vader is a Sith." Military personnel, VIPs of the galaxy who hear the best gossip. They may have little real knowledge of what that means, but it doesn't seem to be any deep secret.
    Iron_lord likes this.
  19. TheChosenSolo

    TheChosenSolo Jedi Master star 4

    Dec 9, 2011
    If we're going to split hairs, maybe the Sith would be those who can trace their training back to the old Sith Order, i.e. trained by someone trained by someone trained by someone trained by someone (et cetera, et cetera) trained by Darth Bane.
  20. MOC Vober Dand

    MOC Vober Dand Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jan 6, 2004
    I doubt he goes around broadcasting it, but by the OT era I doubt he'd care much if anyone knew.
  21. mikeximus

    mikeximus Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Jan 6, 2012
    Hmmm, I would imagine the History of the Sith wasn't some secret thing that only the Jedi knew about. We have Palpatine saying that the Sith ruled the Galaxy at some point, Mace saying that the Oppression of the Sith won't return (which suggests the Sith had some kind of power over people to be able to oppress them), then Ki Adi claiming the Sith had been extinct for a Millennium (a thousand years which isn't that long ago in the terms of Star Wars).

    So it sounds like to me that the Sith played a pretty big part in the History of the Galaxy itself, so I would imagine there were millions of people/beings (Non-Jedi) spread out over the thousands of systems that knew exactly what the term "Darth" means because Historians, Scholars, heck some beings that could live to be 900 to 1,000 years old all would know the correlation between Sith and Darth. The Jedi weren't the only keepers of history, I'm sure they were just one of many.

    So when Darth Vader appears as The Emperor's right hand man, I am sure a lot of people knew exactly what was going on with the Dark Lord of the Sith.
  22. purplerain

    purplerain Jedi Knight star 4

    Sep 14, 2013
    person 1: Palpatine is behind everything! There's Sith with both the CIS and Empire and everything just so happened to result in Palpatine being Emperor and the Jedi dying!
    person 2: That's the wackiest conspiracy theory I've ever heard!
  23. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Jedi Master star 4

    Apr 27, 2014
    Its interesting, that the Sith have to remain in the closet even in their own Empire, when as some members have already stated, most sentient beings wouldn't care.
  24. CaptainYossarian

    CaptainYossarian Jedi Master star 3

    Mar 30, 2003
    People who encountered Vader knew he was a Force user, but most probably didn't really know he was a Sith. The Sith had been out of the public's consciousness for a long time and when they came back it was something the Jedi dealt with on their own. In the OT era most who knew about Vader probably just thought of him as an ex-Jedi who now worked for the Emperor. That is maybe how Dooku was thought of previously - he used the Force and was a villain to many, yet his status as a Sith was probably not considered by many. In ANH it seems as though Tarkin thinks of Vader as a remnant of the Jedi that has been absorbed into the Imperial structure and he would surely know more about Sith than most.
    Lady_Misty likes this.
  25. rumsmuggler

    rumsmuggler Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Aug 31, 2000
    I was under the impression that the higher ups in the Empire know that Vader is a Sith, and there are probably some citizens smart enough to figure it out, but don't go around talking about it. Considering that the vast majority of the Jedi are dead, there is no reason for the sith to remain hidden.