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Isn't Anakin stronger than Yoda??

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by NodNarbOen, Mar 23, 2002.

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  1. NodNarbOen

    NodNarbOen Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Mar 20, 2002
    I've juz thought of it... If anakin has a higher middichorean count than Yoda, why is it that Yoda is still stronger than him? I thought that the amount of middichorean in you would determine how powerful in the force u are... isn't it???

    YJ edit: This has gone off topic, and is no longer discussing whether or not Anakin is stronger than Yoda. The last page has included multiple personal insults.
     
  2. JohnWilliams00

    JohnWilliams00 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 29, 2002
    He may have more, but 800 years of serious training will beat that anyday. Besides, Aakin has some control issues and personal conflict that hinders his full potential in the long run.

    It's not the quantity of midichlorians that matters in the end, but how you use what you've got. Hey, I sound like Gandalf.
     
  3. MasterSoma

    MasterSoma Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Feb 10, 2002
    Having a high midichlorian count increases your potential for power...but Yoda is like 900 years old. Anakin is, what, 19 or 20? Besides, having the power is one thing, but being able to use it wisely and effectively is something else entirely.

    To go on a tangent somewhat, I think that after Anakin gets his injuries in AOTC and Ep.III he will lose a lot of midichlorians (because he will be losing cells/flesh) which probably hurt his chances of ever being as powerful as the Emperor.
     
  4. NodNarbOen

    NodNarbOen Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Mar 20, 2002
    :) That's some pretty good explanation
     
  5. Darth_Xio_Jade

    Darth_Xio_Jade Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Apr 29, 2001
    Anakin has the potential to become stronger, but he hasn't realized his potential yet during AotC. It may, in fact, be arguable that he never actually does at all.
     
  6. Melancholy

    Melancholy Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 19, 2002
    I must admit to always having a problem with this. I think when Anakin is Vader, he is stronger than anybody. Without Vader, the Emperor would not be as powerful. Why doesn't Yoda destroy Anakin/Vader and the Emperor. People will say because of his large army (military officers, stormtroopers, etc.) they (Obi-Wan, Yoda) can't get to him. Huh???

    I think the difference is (or should be) Anakin. Anakin should be all powerful. That should be why Papatine wanted him, for the ultimate protection. I also disagree with those who think Palpatine is stronger.

    Again, I say huh??? Did anyone see Return Of The Jedi? It takes Vader all of five seconds to kill Palpatine. Palpatine actually screams out like a little sissy, knowing that he is about to die and he can't do anything about it.
     
  7. MasterSoma

    MasterSoma Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Feb 10, 2002
    I disagree with your assessment, Melancholy.

    Anakin isn't all powerful. Not even close. I mean, he never even demonstrates the ability to use force-lightning, something Dooku does show in AOTC.

    Really, Anakin is a "salvage job" for the Emperor. Since he had no other apprentice (since Dooku dies) he has to make-do with Anakin, who is damaged goods after his fateful duel with Obi-Wan Kenobi. That's one reason why the Emperor wants to replace him with Luke in ROTJ.

    And about Vader killing the Emperor...the reason he was able to do that so easily is because the Emperor was totally caught off gaurd. That is the one thing he DID NOT FORSEE, the redemption of Anakin Skywalker.

    Ultimately, Vader is just the Emperor's pet. He started out a slave on Tatooine and he ends up becoming the Emperor's slave. Albeit a powerful slave, but little more.
     
  8. Melancholy

    Melancholy Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 19, 2002


    I disagree.

    I think the only reason that Vader doesn't kill Palpatine is because he believes in the Sith rule of two started by Darth Bane. He knows that all that Palpatine has, will someday be his.

    However, that all changes come "A New Hope." When Vader realizes that his son destroyed the Death Star, Vader becomes obsessed with Luke. I think he starts to think about his life that might have been. Can you imagine how often he thinks of Padme from the end of "A New Hope" through "Return Of The Jedi?"

    Seeing the Galactic Civil War raging on makes me believe that Vader starts to feel that Palpatine has started to outlive his usefulness. He wants to kill Papatine and take over with his son as his apprentice. Remember, that Vader is searching for Luke throughout "The Empire Strikes Back" without Palpatine's permission.

    It is only when Palpatine gets the news that Luke destroyed the Death Star, that he contacts Vader by hologram. Vader has to think quick. He convinces the Emperor to let him try to turn Luke instead of just killing him. I think that it is at this moment, that Vader realizes that he must tell Luke who he really is, if he is to have any chance of putting his plan (coup) in motion.
     
  9. NodNarbOen

    NodNarbOen Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Mar 20, 2002
    I know why Anakin doesn't do force lighting... he'll shortcircuit.... :p
     
  10. MasterSoma

    MasterSoma Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Feb 10, 2002
    Well, Melancholy, I think you greatly over-estimate Vader's power. You can tell from certain scenes in ROTJ that Vader does indeed fear the Emperor's power. Remember that we have not yet even seen what Palpatine can do. Think of how powerful Dooku is. Think of how powerful Vader is. You have to wonder why in the world would men that powerful serve anyone. That is because Palpatine is THAT powerful. He is so powerful that he doesn't have to show his abilities to get his goals...but wait until he does! Episode III might change your mind.
     
  11. MasterSoma

    MasterSoma Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Feb 10, 2002
    Good thinking NodNarbOen!

    Surely, that's what ends up killing Vader. His life support systems get shorted out by the Emperor's force-lightning.
     
  12. Melancholy

    Melancholy Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 19, 2002
    Anakin isn't all powerful. Not even close. I mean, he never even demonstrates the ability to use force-lightning, something Dooku does show in AOTC.

    Force lightning isn't such a great power. Nor is Yoda bringing up Luke's X-Wing or lifting the mechanical claw in AOTC.

    The truly great power is Anakin's. Look at ESB, he kills with his mind. Amazing! Nobody else has ever done that in a Star Wars film. Never. Not the Emperor and not Yoda.

    Now that we see Dooku weild Force lightning and Yoda catch, absorb and redirect it, it does'nt seem like a great Force power to me.

    Really, Anakin is a "salvage job" for the Emperor. Since he had no other apprentice (since Dooku dies) he has to make-do with Anakin, who is damaged goods after his fateful duel with Obi-Wan Kenobi.

    I think Anakin will kill Dooku for Palpatine in Episode III. Palpatine wants Anakin as his apprentice. Why not have the best (more on that later).

    That's one reason why the Emperor wants to replace him with Luke in ROTJ.

    That's not the reason.

    And about Vader killing the Emperor...the reason he was able to do that so easily is because the Emperor was totally caught off gaurd. That is the one thing he DID NOT FORSEE, the redemption of Anakin Skywalker.

    No offense, but that is a weak argument. He didn't see it. He was already suspicious of Vader, which I will explain in my next post.

     
  13. Jedi Chikara

    Jedi Chikara Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Aug 1, 1999
    Anakin already thinks he's stronger than Yoda, to an extent. Until he goes to Tatooine, realizes he can't even save his mother's life, and then makes his comments about being held back, and becoming the most powerful Jedi ever. Next he goes to Geonosis and gets schooled by Dooku. It'll be pretty overwhelming for him. I think we'll see a huge change in Anakin in Episode III. He'll be VERY powerful, maybe even more powerful than Yoda and greedy for more....
     
  14. MasterSoma

    MasterSoma Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Feb 10, 2002
    Melancholy, You've yet to come up with one good example of what makes Anakin more powerful than Palpatine or Yoda. Ooh wow, Vader can force choke people! That makes an impression on you but Yoda's catching force lightning doesn't? I hope you can come up with something more substantial.

    About Vader catching the Emperor off-gaurd...he was focused on killing Luke at the moment. Even if the Emperor suspected Vader his mind was on Luke at the moment. Vader took the opportunity to strike. Simple as that.

    Anakin may have thought he was the most powerful, in his Arrogance, but he wasn't. If you want to talk 'most powerful' it's gotta be either Yoda or Palpatine.
     
  15. haakun

    haakun Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 13, 2002
    I agree with you Melancholy. I think the emperor needed Luke to destroy vader in ROTJ because him couldn't destroy vader, and vader couldn't destroy the emperor, only Anakin could do that.
     
  16. Melancholy

    Melancholy Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 19, 2002
    When Vader is unable to get Luke to come with him in ESB, he knows this is all coming to a head. Palpatine wants to know why Vader didn't bring his son back, or at the very least, kill him.

    Lucas has said in interviews that Palpatine becomes suspicious of Vader. About what he did on Bespin, about what he knows and when he knew it. (Such as Vader learning that Luke destroyed the Death Star shortly after ANH and yet keeping that information from Palpatine).

    By ROTJ, their relationship is strained at best. Palpatine doesn't want Luke because he thinks he is better than Vader(he isn't), he wants him because he is worried about Vader. Their relationship is disintergrating.

    What Palpatine doesn't realize, is that Vader will not murder his son. He could do so easily, but he won't. Just remember the dialogue...

    Luke--"Your thoughts betray you, father." "I can feel the good in you...the conflict."

    Vader-"There is no conflict."

    Luke--"You couldn't bring yourself to kill me before(ESB), and I don't think you will destroy me now.

    Luke knew and the Emperor couldn't see it. Vader would not kill his son, no matter what. Palpatine overestimates his own abilities. His overconfidence is his doom.
     
  17. Melancholy

    Melancholy Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 19, 2002
    Melancholy, You've yet to come up with one good example of what makes Anakin more powerful than Palpatine or Yoda. Ooh wow, Vader can force choke people!

    Dude, the power to kill, to take life by just using one's mind, has to be the single greatest power ever. Beyond lightsaber dueling, way beyond Force lightning, it's the ultimate power.

    I'm no religious nut, but if God is real and came to Earth and started weilding great power, I hate to tell you, but I'm sure it would all come from the mind and not stupid purple and blue lightning bolts to which Luke gets up and recovers from right away.

    The only reason it kills Vader is that it damages his respirator. Whoop-Dee-Dee. If he were still Anakin, he'd have walked away without a scratch and Palpatine would still be crying and still be dead as a doornail.
     
  18. Melancholy

    Melancholy Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 19, 2002
    I agree with you Melancholy. I think the emperor needed Luke to destroy vader in ROTJ because him couldn't destroy vader, and vader couldn't destroy the emperor, only Anakin could do that.-Haakun

    LOL. I see what you are saying. That's pretty good. Really though, I don't think all of Anakin's humanity was ever gone. When Luke fought him in ESB, he realized that.

    What the films show, is that Obi-Wan and Yoda were basically idiots. They tried to convince Luke to train to completion, become a Jedi, duel Vader, and kill him. I guarantee you that would have never happened.

    Luke used his own feelings, his own intuition to deal with his father. Physical defeat wasn't gonna happen. He had to try and reach his father on an emotional level, to get him to realize that he took the wrong path, and try to bring him back. He succeeds. Luke is/was no match for Palpatine. Only the Chosen One would fulfill the Prophecy.
     
  19. endboss

    endboss Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Sep 30, 1998
    Don't go dissin' Darth Vader! All signs point to him becoming "the greatest of all Jedi/Sith" by the end of Episode 3. And I agree with the comment that Dooku's use of force lightning doesn't suggest he was more powerful than Vader ever was. Vader used a more effective technique...the force choke. It killed faster and, as far as we know, he was the only one capable of doing it. Perhaps Dooku can use it as well, but perhaps not.

    Vader serving the Emperor doesn't mean he feared him. DV apparently loved the Sith religion, and so he revered his religious leader Palpatine, which explains why he respected and served him. It's also likely that Vader wasn't interested in taking Palpatine's place in the Empire, since it would've reduced the action he'd see and force a ton of politics upon him. I doubt Vader wanted to leave the battlefield for that. He was a warrior, while Palpatine was the politician. I'm sure Vader was happy to let him deal with that end of things.
     
  20. Melancholy

    Melancholy Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 19, 2002
    I like you!!!
     
  21. MasterSoma

    MasterSoma Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Feb 10, 2002
    You are wrong about no one else using the force-choke. Luke uses it in Jabba's palace.

    If you think about it, crushing someone's larynx with the force isn't all that special. I bet any Jedi could do it if they wanted to. It is creative though, and fits Vader's character perfectly.
     
  22. endboss

    endboss Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Sep 30, 1998
    <<<I like you!!!>>>

    Thanks, and I like Vader. ;)
     
  23. NodNarbOen

    NodNarbOen Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Mar 20, 2002
    I would think that doing the force choke isn't too tough for a person using the force. I mean, it's juz the compression of air pipe( dun know if that's how u call it) at the neck so that air molecules couldn't go through isn't it??
     
  24. endboss

    endboss Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Sep 30, 1998
    You say crushing a larynx isn't impressive, but lightning from fingertips which takes several minutes to kill is???
     
  25. Melancholy

    Melancholy Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 19, 2002
    Luke gives the guards a little bit of discomfort. That is a great deal different than killing with the mind.

    Until we see Luke (or anyone else for that matter) use his mind to kill with the Force like Darth Vader, I am extremely doubtful that he (or anyone) could. To me, that kind of power is the ultimate weapon.

    However, now that we see Dooku weild Force lightning and Yoda parrie it, it dimishes the so-called super strength of Palpatine.
     
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