Isn't Anakin stronger than Yoda??

"You say crushing a larynx isn't impressive, but lightning from fingertips which takes several minutes to kill is???"


Yes, the force-lightning is much more impressive to me. Creating pure dark energy that drains the life from people out of thin air. That's pretty good. The Emperor could have just force-choked Luke but he wanted to enjoy watching him die. He's clearly toying with Luke in ROTJ. I think Palpy could force-choke a whole squadron of men at a time if he liked. I wouldn't put any limits on Palply. Don't forget, we've yet to see him use his full power. You think of him more as a politician because that's the only side we've seen of him. I feel that, in the end, we will see why Palpatine is the Master.

 

Melancholy,
You said that Obi-Wan and Yoda were idiots because they thought they could train Luke to kill Vader, and you guarentee that couldn't happen. Well, after Luke cuts Vaders arm off, he is VERY close to killing him. He would have had no problem striking him down while Vader was on his back.

Now, I disagree that Yoda wanted him to kill Vader. Maybe Ben did, but Yoda never said that. Yoda said luke must confront Vader. I think Yoda knew what needed to happen. He knew Anakin/Vader was the only one who could bring balance, he just needed an assist from his son.

 

<<<Yes, the force-lightning is much more impressive to me. Creating pure dark energy that drains the life from people out of thin air.>>>

OK, but to be fair, there's no reason to think Vader couldn't use that inefficient lightning just because he didn't use it. The choke was far more effective, which would explain why Vader saw no use for Force Lightning.

 

I would think that it would all depends on the personality of the force user. Palp likes to see torture pple, that's the reason for force lighting... Darth, on the other hand, juz likes to get rid of them ASAP...

 

It wouldn't suprise me if Obi-Wan is on the recieving end of a little Anakin force-lightning in E. III. There is still alot yet to happen that we don't know about. I'm sure GL will make Anakin/Vader PRETTY bada** in E III.




Before for he gets his handed to him by the Man himself. Obi-Wan, of course.

 

Okay, okay, I get it you guys like the force-choke! It's simple, yet effective. I just don't think that makes Vader the most powerful. It does, however, make him merciless, creepy and cool as hell.

And Melancholy, about Luke using the force choke...you are right, he doesn't kill with it. But that doesn't mean he can't. How much difference in pressure is there between 'discomfort' and killing someone? Not much, imho. He was just warning the gaurds. Luke didn't want to start static too quickly when he entered the palace. He still had hopes that he could strike a deal with Jabba at that point.

 

MS,

Papatine could not Force choke Luke to death. That is the whole point. You know better than that. Until we see Palpatine, Dooku, Yoda or anyone else kill with that kind of power, it is safe to say that they cannot.

CL,

Well, after Luke cuts Vaders arm off, he is VERY close to killing him. He would have had no problem striking him down while Vader was on his back.

If you read all of my posts on page one, I think you could deduce that basically, I was saying that Vader throws the duel because when push comes to shove, he will not murder his son. I am not saying that Luke doesn't attack furiously, but I still think that Vader would have had no problem had he wanted to end it. He takes a dive.

Now, I disagree that Yoda wanted him to kill Vader. Maybe Ben did, but Yoda never said that. Yoda said luke must confront Vader.

Yoda--"Only a fully trained Jedi Knight, with the Force as his ally, will conquor Vader and his Emperor."

I guess it all depends on your definintion of conquor. Shades of gray...

I think Yoda knew what needed to happen. He knew Anakin/Vader was the only one who could bring balance, he just needed an assist from his son.

I hear what you are saying. But with some of the things Yoda said in the OT, it makes me wonder if he or anyone truly knew how the Prophecy would be fulfilled. I think that they (Yoda, Obi-Wan) re-evaluate after Anakin becomes Vader. In fact, Obi-Wan considers Vader and Anakin to be two different beings.

 

Don't forget that force-choking a dim-witted Gamorian guard to death goes against what the Jedi teach, and would be a fast track to the darkside.

 

I don't think the choke by itself makes Vader the most powerful. But I _do_ think the way Lucas has built up the character does. There are many signs that when all is known, Vader/Anakin will be the man.

 

Caveman Lawyer,

One thing doesn't make sense to me....wouldn't blowing up a whole floating barge full of people be against the Jedi teachings too? Why didn't that lead Luke to the darkside?

 

Good point. Again, it's a gray area. It seems that at certain times, things are allowed. Look at Qui-Gon. He actually stole Anakin from Watto if you consider that he altered the way the dice would land.

 

Good points, Melancholy. I, myself think that Anakin/Vader should be considered the most powerful in theory. But this is based on what I think will happen in E III, and in the 20 some years between E III and ANH. A physicaly intact Vader would probably have been unstopable, but we will never know for sure. Let us hope for GL someday giving us Episode 3 1/2.

 

endboss,

I don't agree, but oh well. Ultimately, for all Anakin's power, it seems that ultimately it was his sense of compassion that made the difference.

 

GL definately needs to answer a lot of questions for all of us in Ep.II and of course, Ep.III. Here is hoping he remembers to dot all of the i's and cross all of the t's.

Gotta go!!!

 

MasterSoma, I think there are differences in the two situations. Luke was in a life and death struggle to save himself and his friends when he decided to blow up the barge. When he was entering the Palace, there was no need to strangle those guards to death in order to gain entry.

Now we could argue about the gray areas all day, but I think Luke was justified in the former, and would have been wrong to kill the guards in the latter.

 

Melancholy, I repeat, Palpatine was toying with Luke. He was having a good old time watching him squirm, laughing his pasty-colored wrinkly little head off. Palpatine was toying.

That's my last word on the topic.
Goodnight folks!
peace

 

I don't agree, but oh well.

It's cool, MS. Personally, I think Lucas should just answer all those questions once and for all. I saw a thread once where people argued about who lead the Jedi Council (Mace or Yoda) and it went on for 30+ pages!!!

He should just write (or have someone write) a fact book (guide) that answered all of our fan questions once and for all.

I must admit that when I started posted in Star Wars Forums around the net, I was surprised how many different takes people had on it. It bothered me at first, but I have come to realize that for the most part, it really is a good thing.


Now, I really have to go....

 

I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade here but I think the reason Vader doesn't seem as all-powerful now (after what we've seen from Darth Maul and WILL see from Dooku and Yoda) is because Lucas is making the villains and lightsabre fights more entertaining and fresh through the advancement in computer technology.

Seriously boys and girls, Lucas is attempting to outdo the classic trilogy and to do that, he has to make the lightsabre fights (not to mention the large scale battles) more entertaining right? So, here we have the Jedi and Maul in Episode 1 dancing around and fighting 10 times faster than Vader or Luke and especially Vader and Obi-Wan. And we'll have Dooku, an old man notwithstanding, dancing around and kicking everyone's arses (using two lightsabres and force lightning) ONLY because Lucas needs to keep coming up with NEW NEW NEW stuff for the duels, and THAT IS A BLOODY GOOD THING!

I really don't think that any of the fans are supposed to think that Dooku, Maul, or Yoda are more powerful than Vader. Anakin/Vader is the ultimate JEDI, but Palpatine is stronger...simple as that! If Yoda was stronger than both of them, then the Empire would never have existed because he would have defeated Palpatine and Vader right away. Obviously, Anakin is stronger than them all (the Jedi and Sith apprentices) because he takes Dooku's place in the next one (dooku has to die), and he takes out the remaining Jedi, plus he kills Obi-Wan in A New Hope. In AOTC, Anakin just hasn't reached his potential but as WE ALL KNOW BY NOW FOR BLOODY HELL'S SAKE, he took the dark path because he could harness his power more quickly and easily.

I really doubt there is much more to it than that. The only reason the Jedi in the prequels look more fancy and skilled is because the stunt coordinator is better (gillard) and they are spending more time on preparing the actors for the fighting this time around. Moreover, Lucas (as I've said) has to keep entertaining and pushing the envelope, hence we have a double-sided lightsabre wielding bad guy vs. two Jedi in TPM, something we hadn't seen. In Episode 2, we see an old man strong in the force with two lightsabres and force lighting kicking two jedi's arses, who also use two lightsabres. Also, we get to see Yoda kick some serious arse, something we haven't seen before either. Lucas isn't trying to make Vader look inferior to the rest...that would contradict the whole saga. Vader is the man...he wouldn't have been able to kill off dozens of Jedi if he wasn't THE MAN. I'm assuming he'll kill Ki-Adi Mundi or Mace Windu. Here's hoping that in Episode 3 we get to see dark side wielding Darth Vader, in the full bad ass suit, taking on Sam Jackson and whooping his arse handily and getting rid of that silly purple lightsabre (sorry, had to throw that one in hehehe).

Anyway, my point is basically that the stunts are better this time around (more preparation, training, etc. for the actors bla bla), better fx, and the need for Lucas to entertain US in new ways we haven't seen before. None of this is meant to detract from Vader....VADER IS SUPREME, under Palpatine of course.

EDIT: I want to make sure that you all know that the only way Anakin could become MORE powerful than the rest of the Jedi is because he WENT TO THE DARK SIDE, which is more powerful in evil ways. Using the passive, defensive style of the light side was frustrating and slow learning for Anakin and he couldn't reach his potential fast enough and hence, he gets his inexperienced and novice arse handed to him by Dooku in AOTC. But once he takes on the dark side in Episode 3, he'll be handing Dooku's, Mundi's and Windu's arses all to them. I mean seriously, hasn't Lucas covered the fact that Anakin got stronger BECAUSE he went to the dark side and THAT made him ALL POWERFUL..which is exactly WHY Palpatine is stronger because he is more experienced with it? Plus, maybe Vader prefers the lightsabre to force lightning..he never was trying to KILL Luke right? Anyway, sorry for the length, but this discussion i

 

Now, I disagree that Yoda wanted him to kill Vader. Maybe Ben did, but Yoda never said that. Yoda said luke must confront Vader. I think Yoda knew what needed to happen. He knew Anakin/Vader was the only one who could bring balance, he just needed an assist from his son.

"Unexpected it is... and unfortunate." -Yoda.

 

Yeah, that about sums it up, Boromir19. Then we had David Prowse. Now we have Ray Park and CGI. Slight difference in swordsmanship. I don't think Lucas has to worry about making Vader look inferior though. Sure, he is slow in the OT, but the ESB fight is Vader toying with an inferior opponent. He doesn't even break a sweat for 90% of the duel. One-hand blocking, disarming Luke effortlessly. Ripping pipes out of walls while fighting. As soon as Luke slashes him on the shoulder, he becomes angery and it takes him about 4 seconds to cut Lukes hand off. To me, its gonna take alot to top that duel. No amount of double-bladed lightsabers, or cartwheels will diminish it.

Although, Yoda catching lighting and throwing it back has got me pretty excited.

 

That's the most grounded way to look at it, Boromir, and I agree. That's the kind of thinking I use when I hear fans diss Boba Fett and point to his unspectacular death. I think that had more to do with Lucas making a sloppy decision than Boba Fett being a scrub. I think if Lucas had it to do over, Boba's final fight would be as layered and kick-ass as Jango's will be. And if he had Vader's OT duels to do over again, they'd put what we saw from Ray Park/Maul to shame.

 

I dont think Boba's death is a sloppy decision at all. He had to write the bounty hunter out of the series (although he could just have kept him out of ROTJ).

The way Fett dies is rather humorous, and IRONIC. You have this mysterious, dangerous bounty hunter who dies by accident. Why not?

 

haakun,
I'm not sure what you mean by posting that, but if you're saying Yoda didn't know what had to happen, I think you're mistaken. Yoda wasn't expecting Vader to reveal himself to Luke. To Yoda, it was unfortunate that Lukes time had already come. That he might not be quite ready for what Yoda knew needed to happen. Yoda probably cared about Luke alot at that point as well. That part of ROTJ is open to debate, but thats how I see it. I could be wrong.

 

<<<The way Fett dies is rather humorous, and IRONIC. You have this mysterious, dangerous bounty hunter who dies by accident. Why not?>>>

Because it _is_ humorous, and such a character shouldn't go out on a Sarlacc burp. With little hints and visual clues, such as Fett being worthy of sticking close to Vader and addressing him without respect, Lucas set Boba Fett up as a significant player. I think wasting his death scene by using it for a brief laugh was a mistake. Especially now that we know how important and impressive Jango Fett was.

 

Caveman Lawyer: I totally agree with you man. I just think some people in here look for more in something when it really isn't there...no offence to anyone though. Also, my favourite duel, even after the TPM one which was spectacular, is still Vader vs. Luke in ESB. It's very pyschological and anyone can see that Vader is just toying with Luke, until Luke deals that nice shot to his shoulder and yes, Lukey boy lost his hand once Vader REALLY started to fight. I think the ONLY duel that may match that is when Anakin fights Obi-Wan before turning to the Dark Side. If done right (and I'm not going to start doubting George Lucas..aka me...now. I know what I'm doing with my Star Wars), it could be the most emotional duel we've seen, but I hope it's also the LONGEST. Duel of the Fates was great, but time the scenes together...it's less than 5 minutes. All that time wasted with Jar Jar could have added another 5 minutes to the duel..at least Lucas should have added the cut scenes of the duel back in for the DVD, considering it was the best part of the movie.

ENDBOSS: I agree with you. Boba Fett's death is a little silly, but Lucas did get silly after Empire. I think if he could go back and make the duels look faster and more snazzy, he'd do it. But really, I've no problem with the duels in ESB or ROTJ. They're pretty well choreographed, but Alec Guiness and Dave Prowse in ANH look funny these days. Say, did you notice how FAST C. Lee is moving in that 2 second shot of Dooku fighting Anakin near the end of the Clone War trailer? Wow, he can move for a man of 80 can't he? wow.

On a side note...I think Vader's style is brutal anyway. He alawys wanted the quick and easy path in everything....that's why he went to the dark side in the first place. I think he thinks it's just a waste of time to prance around in a duel like Maul did. Just hack away with brute strength and skill and kill your enemy, that's Vader's style. Of course...that's just my opinion, but it gels with what's happening in the prequels and makes up for the difference in the pace and authenticity of the duels between the Prequels and Classics.

Vader will always be THE and My man.
P.S. I AM Lucas.