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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Isn't Anakin stronger than Yoda??

Discussion in 'Archive: Attack of the Clones' started by NodNarbOen, Mar 23, 2002.

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  1. Knightstalker-

    Knightstalker- Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 7, 2001
    Hey Melancholy, I said Luke was POTENTIALLY the strongest...read the friggin post smartass.
    And Haakun, I seem to recall Luke dropping Vader in ROTJ...or maybe you've seen another version?
     
  2. Thena

    Thena Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    May 10, 2001
    Anakin may have had the greatest potential of any Jedi who ever lived. But he lacked discipline of mind and could not control his own feelings.

    If Anakin had not turned to the dark side (and been crippled after his duel with Obi-Wan), he would have been a far more powerful Jedi than Yoda.

    At least Luke learned his lesson after his first duel with Vader; he wasn't so hot-headed after that...
     
  3. PMT99

    PMT99 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 23, 2000
    Melancholy-

    "Luke let it happen???

    ROTFLMAO!!! You are funny....and clueless. I'm just not sure which one more than the other."

    You have a better reason why Luke just stood there and let himself get fried instead of finishing off the Emperor the same way Obi-wan took out Maul?

    If you do, then I'm all ears but until then, this is no laughing matter.
     
  4. berniethemac

    berniethemac Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 27, 2002
    Um...I thought yoda was the "strongest" jedi in the SW universe...as for luke...strongest...um...no he was basically a tool to allow the force to balance out, through his father...who else could've appealed to "the one"? Obi wan tried to and...ended up mangling his butt. I'm still wondering why yoda hid his butt though...probably because they thought with anakin dead and dooku dead they got rid of the sith altogether. That's what I'm banking on...dooku and anakin without palpatine...that's the only way the jedi could be led to believe that the sith were dead...otherwise yoda and obi would've gone after the palpatine if they knew he was the "master" sith.
     
  5. Matthew Trias

    Matthew Trias Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 1999
    "You say crushing a larynx isn't impressive, but lightning from fingertips which takes several minutes to kill is??? "
    -----signature-----

    Palpatine was obviously torturing the boy. The bolts were getting more and more powerfu with every blast. I'm sure he could've killed Luke in a flash with his force lightning if he wanted to.

    I also think Vader stayed with Palpatine for 20 years cause he had so much to learn. by the time or RotJ he had pretty much learned all he could from Palpatine. It was time to kill the old man and takw on his own apprentice. Unfortunately ,Vader didn't count on the fact that the good in him wouldn't let him kill his son. His heart was never really in the RotJ battle. Then Luke used the dark side and thaT clinched it.
     
  6. darth-skycrawler

    darth-skycrawler Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 7, 2001
    The problem with this thread is that some people claim that a character is the best simply because thy like him. To say that Kenobi and Yoda could be Vader and Palps is not looking at the facts.

    Logic may say that Yoda could never have gotten to Vader and Palps, but this does not seeem like the case. Ben ges to duel Vader fairly easily on the death star. Yoda also could hav easly have snuck aboard Luke's X-wing. Yoda is able to destroy 8 super battle droids in the blink of a eye. Don't you think he could have got passed the storm troopers on Bespin.

    This leaves me tp come o the conclusion that both Yoda and Kenobi were afraid of eiter the emperor's or Anakin's power. The fact that they continually tell Luke to destroy Vader may be a sign that Vader is the one they fear.

    It seems extremely unlikely that luke after his short periods of training would be a match for Vader. We know from the PT that Vader loves family above all else. Therefore it may not be a stretch of the imagination to assume that Yoda and Ben have a plan.

    Knowing that Vader will not be able to kill a relative they send Luke to kill him since they can't. Vader will be unable to fight him and wil therefore loose. For this plan to suceed they simply need to stop Luke from turning. the second plan maybe for Luke by fighting Anain and not turning woud leave Vader with three choices: kill his own son (which they know he can't do, allow himself to be killed or turn bac to te lightisde.

    Personally i beleieve the latter plan to be true. This in opinion dispelled Luke as being a match for Vader or the emperor. We know that ben and Yoda are scared of either Anakin or the emperor. This can not be decided untill after episode 3.

    In my own reasoning the steps that i have taked have prooved that Luke was no match for Vader or the emperor, Yoda is not the most powerful force user and the best he can come is second. Anakin or Palpatine is the most powerful and I think Anakin will proove to be be the more powerful.
     
  7. Mason

    Mason Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 21, 2002

    That is probably the best argument I've heard thus far concerning this issue. It definitely makes me rethink the situation.

    Here's a question...why not go with Luke to help him take out Vader and/or the Emporer? If nothing else, Yoda would be a major distraction to both of them, giving Luke a chance to strike...or vice versa...
     
  8. haakun

    haakun Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 13, 2002
    Here's a question...why not go with Luke to help him take out Vader and/or the Emporer? If nothing else, Yoda would be a major distraction to both of them, giving Luke a chance to strike...or vice versa...

    ...interesting point.
     
  9. rofflemao

    rofflemao Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2002
    About that 2+2=4 comment... well, that's not always how genetics work.

    Passing something down from one person to another doesn't *always* result in pure generation loss (generation loss = quality loss from one generation to another). It's just not as simple as 2+2=4.

    Besides, there's way more to midi count than plain ol' genetics, anyway. The whole "chosen one" prophecy flat-out proves it.

    Of course, this isn't to say that Luke is/could be stronger than Anakin ('cause I doubt even one person out of a million would think so). Just being picky and saying that your logic/comparison wasn't entirely accurate. :)

    Anyway, the Shaq/Jordan scenario makes perfect sense. Shaq was practically built to power his way through the court. But Jordan, while he was built for speed and agility, also has perfected his craft throughout the years much moreso than O'Neal.

    Another example: Suppose some 14-year-old child prodigy makes his way through college with an extremely high IQ. But maybe there's also a professor with an IQ just 5 points below his, and with 40+ years of experience in his field.

    Who's gonna be smarter?
     
  10. Melancholy

    Melancholy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 19, 2002
    The professor. But, I am not denying Yoda's strength. Eventually, Anakin is superior.

    darth-skycrawler,

    That was one of the best (and very accurate) posts I have seen here in a long, long time. Kudos...


    PMT99,

    You have a better reason why Luke just stood there and let himself get fried instead of finishing off the Emperor the same way Obi-wan took out Maul?

    If you do, then I'm all ears but until then, this is no laughing matter.


    Ha! Ha! You are kidding, right? Luke didn't just stand there. He was getting his butt whooped. He was dead. It was over. No Anakin rescue...no life! Are you under the delusion that Luke can/could have taken Palpatine? You are insulting the intelligence of everyone here.
     
  11. Melancholy

    Melancholy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 19, 2002
    Hey Melancholy, I said Luke was POTENTIALLY the strongest...read the friggin post smartass.

    Wow! You're touchy... I like that.

    Oh, by the way, Luke is not potentially anything!!!

    He lives beccause he is his son. That is what saves him.

    I give Luke all the credit in the world for doing what he does in making Anakin see himself, see his mistakes...but that is where it ends.
     
  12. The_Farce

    The_Farce Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2002
    Some things to consider:


    "Always two there are, no more, no less. A master, and an aprentice."-Yoda in TPM.


    "Luke, you can destroy the Emperor; he has forseen this. It is your destiny. Join me, and together we can rule the galaxy as father and son."-Vader to Luke in ESB.


    It's fairly clear to me (feel free to disagree) that Vader is alluding to Luke and he joining forces to destroy Palpatine. On one hand, this could be taken to mean that Vader is ready to get rid of The Emperor and simply take on Luke as his aprentice. In order to keep the "rule of two", he must have Luke at his side.

    On the other hand, he tells Luke that destroying The Emperor is his destiny. Is Vader implying that he can't destroy Palpatine on his own?

    "Now, fulfill your destiny, and take your father's place by my side..."-Palpatine to Luke in ROTJ.

    By ROTJ, the rift between Palpatine and Vader is obvious. Palpatine wants Luke to kill Vader. Is it because he perceives a threat? Does he want Vader out of the way?

    It also seems clear to me (once again, clear to me is frosted glass to most people) that Vader is on quite the emotional roller-coaster after the events of ANH and the discovery of his son. Does he want destroy The Emperor? Could he if he wanted too? Does his son mean anything to him? Vader physically takes a dive in ROTJ. Watch the tape. His convictions are waning. He is in utter confusion. He's starting to cave in.

    What does it all mean?

    Oh well, enough of my senile rambling...
     
  13. Caveman_Lawyer

    Caveman_Lawyer Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2002
    Well, it means we will never know if Vader could have taken out Palps because the end of the saga has been filmed already.

    Again, fact: Anakin/Vader had the most POTENTIAL with the force.

    Did he reach it? No. If he had, he would have been Emperor at the time of the OT, not Palps.
     
  14. sidiousmd

    sidiousmd Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 27, 2002
    I don't understand why people say we could never know if Vader could've killed Palpatine. He did kill him!
     
  15. PMT99

    PMT99 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 23, 2000
    "Are you under the delusion that Luke can/could have taken Palpatine?"

    Aren't you the delusional one who believes that Luke doesn't stand a chance against either the Emperor or Vader when in fact we have just seen Luke try to decapitate the Emperor and overpower Vader to the ground?

    The Emperor believes that Luke can and will take him down which he tells Vader "he could destroy us" and by ROTJ, Vader confirms the Emperor's suspicions when he checks out Luke's new lightsaber which he says, "Indeed, you are powerful as the Emperor has forseen."

    Now why would they say this if Luke is nowhere in their league like you claim that he isn't?

    Also, Luke would have tried another attempt at finishing off the Emperor but since he didn't want to complete his fall to the darkside after he avoided it the first time when he beat Vader, he chose to sacrifice himself to the Emperor because it was the only option he had to get Vader to come back to the light side and it worked.

    "Why not go with Luke to take out Vader and/or the Emperor? If nothing else, Yoda would be a major distraction to both of them, giving Luke a chance to strike....or vice versa..."

    1. Because Yoda was not keen on the idea of letting Luke go to face Vader in the first place because Luke hasn't finished his training and he's only signing his application for becoming the next Sith apprentice when he rushed off to save his friends.

    2. Yoda's dying. He would have been no good to Luke anyway if his illness claimed him sooner or later.
     
  16. Mason

    Mason Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 21, 2002
    yeah, but a dying Yoda with some power would still be a distraction...also, initially my thoughts were of the first confrontation with Vader in ESB...Yoda would have been a BIG help there, he could have saved Han and Co. and could have also assisted with Vader.
     
  17. DarthChuck

    DarthChuck Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 28, 2002
    I think a lot of you see Luke as not being a match for anybody. There was a reson that the emperor and Vader feared him. You guys talk like Luke was a wuss. Lets not forget that Luke managed to go toe to to with the men that eliminated the Jedi order, with almost no training. Vader cut down many Jedi in ther prime and some farmboy with a little training manages to defeat him. Meloncholy says thats because Vader threw the fight. No way. While I do agree that Vader could have killed him any time in ESB I dont think he threw the fight in ROTJ. Luke was holding back also he didnt want to kill the father he had just found out was alive. Luke wanted to save his father. I do agree that Vader must have been on an emotional rollercoaster(so was Luke), but in the middle of a fight a profesional puts his feelings aside and performs his trade. Ive been in plenty of fights in my life and I can tell you that my mind was focused on not getting ****** up. I think we need to rethink the Luke issue. I apologize for getting offtrack. I think Vader had the potential but not the discipline. Yoda did,so did Luke. Had Anakin stayed on the light path he would have been more powerful than any Jedi, thats my opinion. And its not biased because Vader is my favorite Charecter.
     
  18. Tricky

    Tricky Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 26, 2001
    Vader threw the fight, or Luke was too powerful?

    You people have got to stop using the Shaq/Jordan comparisons, cause Anakin & Luke are father & son. No matter how powerful either of them was in the RotJ fight, neither of them could just kill the other one anymore. Finding out that they were related messed them both up, so they held back. Luke decided not to kill the evil Sith Lord who murdered all the Jedi and Vader decided that he wasn't going to kill Luke Skywalker for the Emperor.

    Y'see, the biggest plot device in any SW movie "Luke, I am your father..." got in the way of what coulda been the best lightsaber fight ever. It could've been the perfect cyborg Sith Master (evil) against the last hope, most powerful & only remaining Jedi(good) fight without the "father" interference. It would have been amazing.
     
  19. Melancholy

    Melancholy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 19, 2002
    This is pointless to debate because even the basics aren't understood here.

    Luke could take Palpatine? That's like saying my nine-year old niece could take Mike Tyson.

    When the Emperor says what he says to Vader in ESB about Luke, it is because he knows that Vader's offspring would be a threat to him.

    Obi-Wan in ROTJ-
    "The Emperor knew as I do, that if Anakin were to have any offspring, they would be a threat to him."


    Not in a physical confrontational way, but in an emotional way. The problem in this place is the failure to understand the word threat as it was intended. Next, people here will be telling me that Leia was a physical threat to Vader. I am now gagging.

    When Anakin fails to bring back Luke at the end of ESB, it is common knowledge that Palpatine became very suspicious of Vader. At least, I thought it was common knowledge.

    Vader takes a dive. Lucas says Anakin/Vader is the greatest...strongest.

    Last time I checked, he created the thing.

     
  20. Melancholy

    Melancholy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 19, 2002
    If he had, he would have been Emperor at the time of the OT, not Palps.

    That is not the reason. At the time of the OT, Vader believes in the Sith rule of two. He knows that all Palpatine has will one day be his. He will have his time.

    Of course, all of this is due to Darth Bane who is a true hero to any Sith because he saved the order from extinction.
     
  21. haakun

    haakun Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 13, 2002
    I think all of you have missed the main point, this is a thread about anakin and yoda not about anakin and luke.
     
  22. Melancholy

    Melancholy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 19, 2002
    You are right.

    I never brought up Luke until others did.

    As far as Yoda in Episode II, he is stronger.

    However, as I have stated before, he won't always be...
     
  23. DarthChuck

    DarthChuck Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Melancholy I think that Vader COULD have been the most powerful but he has no patience. The key to mastering any art is discipline, patience, and commitment. Vader didnt have them to the same degree as Yoda no way. And as far as ROTJ, after Vader threatans Leia the fight is all Luke. And now you talk Darth Bane now your bringing up the EU, where will this end. But still this is a pretty good discussion.
     
  24. Melancholy

    Melancholy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 19, 2002
    Darth Bane is not EU. I loathe EU. Darth Bane is mentioned in the official novelization of "The Phantom Menace" by Terry Brooks based on George's screenplay. George hand picked Brooks. Darth Bane is mentioned as saving the Sith by creating the rule of two. It is canon.

    It will end when people realize that eventually Anakin is stronger than everybody in the saga.

    However, in a place like this, with some of the comments I have read, such as Luke letting Palpatine blast him with Force lightning (Did I mention I need some aspirin...bigtime?), it might be a while.
     
  25. PMT99

    PMT99 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 23, 2000
    If Anakin is stronger than everyone, then why did he get his butt kicked by everyone including Dooku, Obi-wan, and Luke, winded up as a crippled cyborg, and became Palpatine's bitch for 25 years?

    Nobody who is suppose to be the most powerful being in the universe such as Anakin should be easily defeated by a mere inferior opponent nor should they take orders from a power-hungry dictator like the Emperor who is weaker than him.

    BTW, if Luke wasn't gonna try to put up a fight against the Emperor after defeating Vader, then you damn skippy he let himself get fried by the Emperor's force lightning.
     
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