Isn't It About Time The US Stopped Killing Innocents?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by KaineDamo, Jul 2, 2002.

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  1. KaineDamo Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 5
    I don't know if any of you heard ( i hear that the US Media can be very propeganda like ), but a US Plane dropped a bomb on a wedding ceremony in Afghanistan, killing at least 40 people and injuring hundreds.
    Did you know that more US troops have died through accidents than through actual enemy conflict during this whole "war on terrorism"?
    Bin Laden could be on some Carribean Island by now for all you know.
    The Taliban has been more or less completely squashed.
    Bush wants to defy the entire United Nations, and is threatening to end all the US peacekeeping missions if he doesn't get his way.
    So don't you think its about time the US Military got out of this country that they really have no buisness being in in the first place?
  2. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    ( i hear that the US Media can be very propeganda like )

    Sites like MSNBC.com and CNN.com had top stories on it.

    Did you know that more US troops have died through accidents than through actual enemy conflict during this whole "war on terrorism"?


    According to whom or what?

    So don't you think its about time the US Military got out of this country that they really have no buisness being in in the first place?

    According to whom?

    I'm not sure how long this thread will last, but those are some questions to consider.
  3. DarksiderGeorge Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2002
    star 2
    Did you know that more US troops have died through accidents than through actual enemy conflict during this whole "war on terrorism"?

    That is so true, this appears to be the case in nearly all the more modern conflicts in "police actions".
  4. KaineDamo Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 5
    The answer to your first question: The news. Maybe yours didn't bother to meantion it.

    The answer to your second question: According to International Law, which the US is only interested in abiding by when it suits them.
  5. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    I'll be interested in hearing counterpoints to this. I'm not really knowledgable enough to make them, but many others are. It should be interesting.
  6. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    Are you saying that we should have just left that great government called the Taliban in control, since we didn't have any business being there in the first place?

    Latre! :D
  7. Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    If America stays out of a foreign crisis, others criticize it for isolationism. If America steps in, it gets criticized for sticking its nose where it doesn't belong.

    Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
  8. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    If America stays out of a foreign crisis, others criticize it for isolationism. If America steps in, it gets criticized for sticking its nose where it doesn't belong.

    Damned if you do, damned if you don't.


    Amen to that.
  9. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    Perhaps if some countries could get their act together and stop subjecting their citizens to a life of poverty, we would not be needed to "help" out as much.

    In addition, if the countries that surround them would help one another out, we wouldn't be needed either.

    And further more, if other industrialized countries that love to criticize us for sticking our noses in where it doesn't belong would step up and solve world problems the way they see fit, we wouldn't be needed.

    Like the post above said, we're damned if we do and damned if we don't do something.

    How about if the rest of the world tries to fix their own problems, in their own region of the world, and you won't see so much of the U.S.A.

    (That's just my opinion, I could be wrong. :) )

    Latre! :D
  10. AJA Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 1998
    star 4
    I think it's time to recognize that 99% of those who make these kinds of attacks against the US are Communists/Marxists/Socialists who are still pissed off that we knocked over their Empire.
  11. shds Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2000
    star 2
    "If America stays out of a foreign crisis..."

    The US doesn't stick its nose in or stay out of a "foreign crisis" except where it's economic interests or reputation is concerned. This is so even for Afghanistan.

    Take a look at the Afghan power circle. The new [US appointed] government is headed by a guy named Hamid Karzai. Interestingly enough, Hamid Karzai is a former lobbyist for UNOCAL, the American oil company. The US Special Envoy to Afghanistan is Zalmay Khalilzad, also a UNOCAL employee. UNOCAL has been trying for years to get a multibillion dollar pipeline built through Afghanistan. There was also massive behind-the-scenes US arm-twisting in the recent Loya Jirga.

    For another example, take Bosnia and the recent War Crimes Court. The whole peacekeeping mission is being torn apart because our Government cannot accept that soldiers be tried for war crimes.

    Another example is our refusal to apologise for [even accidently]killing innocents. Look at the situation now. We keep justifying the latest attack on a wedding party. Remember the last time the US was trying to justify the bombing of a village? Rumsfield was telling us that "legitimate targets" were attacked, while the CIA on the other end is giving the families of the bombing victims a thousand dollars each to shut them up.

    This type of behaviour does not endear us to the people of the world and this is practically the only reason why anyone would hate America. Not because they hate freedoms but because our foreign policies take away their freedoms and rights.
  12. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    I didn't know the people of Afghanistan had many freedoms and rights before the U.S. helped remove the Taliban.

    But, I agree with you on the money issue. You must be blind to not see that it all boils down to money, and the interests of the United States of America.

    All the other issues are foreground to distract you from seeing this.

    MONEY! That's it!

    Latre! :D
  13. Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    Which of our interests were we trying to protect in Kosovo, or Somalia?
  14. HavocHound Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2000
    star 4
    >>Bush wants to defy the entire United Nations, and is threatening to end all the US peacekeeping missions if he doesn't get his way.<<

    GO BUSH!! :D

    I say we start a worldwide underground resistance movement and wage a clandestine guerilla war against the UN. Now that I've typed that, they'll probably kill me. But then, they haven't killed me yet and I've been saying stuff like that for years. I'm fairly sure they already know who I am and where I live and they've probably been watching me for a long time. I just don't care any more. I'm not going to live my life in fear. I'm going to cry aloud and spare not.
  15. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2000
    star 6
    I think it's time to recognize that 99% of those who make these kinds of attacks against the US are Communists/Marxists/Socialists who are still pissed off that we knocked over their Empire.

    True! True! Didn't the Commies say they'd be taking over our country from the inside?



    As for the thread itself. When in a war, expect civilian casulties. Expect accidents. War is NOT, I repeat NOT perfect.
  16. Rogue_Squad_Leader- Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2001
    star 4
    isnt it about time some one gotta swift kick in the.............
  17. Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 1999
    star 5
    What Darth Geist said.

    In a way, I'm almost saddened that 9/11 wasn't the result of a government, because at least we'd have a target.
    It seems that US is that more vulnerable to being called a 'unilateral activist' because this is not a declared war, and thus the death of innocents are that much harder to justify (not that they can ever really be justified).

    I, for one, would prefer a straight fight to all this sneaking around. :).

    Peace,

    V-03
  18. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    For once, I think I can agree with you Vaderize. I would also prefer a straight fight.
  19. Waning Drill Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 1999
    star 5
    This whole thread is disturbing.
  20. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    What is it with the world today? If you were living in the 1940's, and you heard that we had bombed someone "innocent" would you say, "Oh my word, it's time to stop fighting Hitler! It's just not worth it!"

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  21. 800-pound_ewok Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2002
    star 2
    w.bush has to keep bombing to keep his ratings up until the next election. doing this will give him a sure win for re-election. he does not want to make the same mistake his father made.
  22. Macho-Man Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2002
    Unfortunately, the opposite side will not allow a 'straight fight'... but two can play at the 'sneaking around' game...
  23. 800-pound_ewok Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2002
    star 2
    as someone already stated earlier on this thread - this is a war! expect casualties whether it be innocent or not. people die in wars. otherwise, it wouldn't be a war. you could only go so far with precision surgical strikes. it has to get messy sometime.

    cheers!
  24. TOUCHPUMP Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2002
    star 1
    Of course no one including the US should kill innocents. What other answer did you expect? Unfortunately there are going to be cases. I think what happened indicates two things:

    1. Our current military technology is far from perfect and
    2. Our military intelligence is very lacking.

    And SHDS of course our interests in these matters is our own. The UN has no significant power, and other countries involved usually make minimal investments of resources compared to ours.

    Maybe it is time the UN be given more authority?

    I just don't like it when we make excuses for murders flying into buildings because they have a cause, but the same people crucify the US for an accidental bombing of civilians in a war.
    I hope those families can forgive us since we know how bad it is to have innocent civilians killed in a war.
  25. 800-pound_ewok Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2002
    star 2
    amen to that, touchpump!

    cheers!
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