Isn't the Eu sort of Weird?

Discussion in 'EU Community' started by Darth_Ignant, Sep 4, 2002.

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  1. Darth_Ignant Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 7
    I used to read a ton, but now we're getting new films, I stopped. It's a little weird to me to read what is a very visual thing.

    The writing isn;t really upto parr (no matter what TPM still didn't get that bad :p), and the books aren't exactly well written. Very pulpish.

    But I want to get educated, so what do you get from the EU?
  2. Jansons_Funny_Twin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    I think that the EU...well, I think it 'expands' (original, I know :p ) on the movies, and tells what happens in the GFFA after the movies.

    It adds alot to my SW experience.
  3. Sreya Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2000
    star 2
    It used to be interesting. I liked seeing the ideas on how the Jedi were brought back, and seeing Han and Leia start a family. Some of the "political" subplots were interesting too, though they usually weren't THAT developed... but that was okay, left my imagination room to play in.

    Now it's just getting, well, kind of scary. And I agree, with the new movies, its sometimes hard to use the written word as a substitute for such an incredible visual experience.

    Maybe that's why I've started doing so much more fanart since seeing AOTC. ;)

    Sreya
  4. Jansons_Funny_Twin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    its sometimes hard to use the written word as a substitute for such an incredible visual experience.

    I think that the EU is, in it's own way, just as visual as the movies, if not more so.

    With the movies, there is only really one vision of what is happening. Ex: a dogfight in the movies has just that one visual interpetation, whereas in a book, it's whatever you imagine it is.

    The books, I think allow for much greater visual possibilities.
  5. Doo-Kimmie Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 22, 2001
    star 1
    I used to read the EU as well, but the contradictions between it and George Lucas' original story have become too much for me too handle.

    I prefer my SW to come from George and that means the movies only.
  6. Jansons_Funny_Twin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    I used to read the EU as well, but the contradictions between it and George Lucas' original story have become too much for me too handle.

    And what exactly is GL's vision/original story/etc, and how has the EU contradicted said vision/story/etc?
  7. JediStarMoonstruck Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 19, 2002
    star 5
    I agree that the EU leaves room to use your imagination.

    But, like Sreya said, it is way to scary now. I don't like the idea of my fav. characters that I have come to depend on and love be killed off.
  8. Jansons_Funny_Twin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
  9. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    No one lives forever. With such an expansive timeline, not everyone will live. That goes for heroes in addition to villains. I applaud the fact that they killed Chewbacca and Anakin Solo...I didn't see it coming, and it was done for the right reasons. To advance the story and pop the stagnant bubble of safety that the Bantam books drilled in. Think about it...How many movie characters died in those books? I believe it was only Madine...A guy with four lines and a bad haircut.

    I used to read the EU as well, but the contradictions between it and George Lucas' original story have become too much for me too handle.

    So you couldn't handle 0 contradictions? ;)

    I prefer my SW to come from George and that means the movies only.

    Actually, that could also entail the various novels, comics and videogames he's personally contributed ideas to. Which is a sizable amount, and shouldn't be discounted.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again...For me, SW is a multimedia presence. The movies are the cake. Everything else is the frosting.

  10. Jansons_Funny_Twin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    [buttkissing]
    Well said sir, very good post!
    [/buttkissing]

    :p

    Seriously, I agree wholeheartedly.
  11. JediStarMoonstruck Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 19, 2002
    star 5
    Perhaps, but the movies gave me hope in a time when I had no idea where I was headed. The books should reflect that sentiment as well.

    As to death, I spent the past five years with death. A classmate died five years ago, a family member died and two family friends died (one unexpectedly) three years ago and two family member died two years ago (one unexpectedly again).

    This year my grandmother is struggling with her back and heart problems, my mom was very close to dying in the hospital due to the wrong drug was given to her, and another family member is in the hospital who may die sometime in the near future (sadly).

    As it stands, death is not a good subject with me. While I see it as unavoidable, I wish to not think about. (I'm weird that way! :p ) That's why I think of any main characters' death of any genre as pointless as it refuses to give hope.

    Sorry about the speech. :(
  12. JediStryker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2000
    star 4
    [foot in mouth]That was horrible, Sturm![/foot in mouth] ;)

    I used to read a ton, but now we're getting new films, I stopped. It's a little weird to me to read what is a very visual thing.

    That funny, because I find that reading (as strange as it sounds) is a more 'visual' medium for me than watching a movie. My imagination is much more vivid than anything they can create in cinema, and I am not confined by technology. Maybe that's because I am a writer, but that's how I see it.

    The writing isn;t really upto parr (no matter what TPM still didn't get that bad ), and the books aren't exactly well written. Very pulpish.

    I have to ask...up to par with what? Other books? The movies? On both counts I disagree heartily. The writing in many SW books has been excellent, IMO, even when I did not particularly like the book itself. For example, Crystal Star. Not a great book for SW purposes IMO, but the writing was great, and I could see it being used for another medium.

    As far as the movies go, I feel like the novels have met and even in some cases exceeded the movies in both action and intelligence. (Not to mention dialogue! :p ) For example, Thrawn, as much as some despise him and think he was overblown, was an intelligent military commander, and did some things that I found very clever. Some of the plots were much more intricately woven, simply because it's easier to do that in a novel than it is in a movie.
  13. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    I agree with Stryker. If you're looking for novels with great literary merit, don't look to SW. But if you want a fun adventure story remniscent of the movies ( more or less succeeding, depending on the book in question ), then you're good to go.

    In most cases, Lucas himself is on the ball in his own universe. No one has that midas touch that he has for the movies. However, certain stories written by certain authors have done better than him in select areas. For example, I feel that Lucas can no longer write Threepio and Artoo very well, but plenty of EU authors have gotten it right numerous times.

    JediStar - That's too bad about what you've had to deal with, and I can see why it affects your point of view when reading the NJO. But, even though the stories seem dark, perhaps as dark as the PT, it doesn't mean they're devoid of themes such as hope and redemption. The payoff will come with the NJO, just as it does for the Skywalker family in Episodes IV-VI.
  14. Gandalf the Grey Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2000
    star 6
    The Bantam line of Star Wars books tended towards Hugo and Nebula award winning sci-fi authors (Timothy Zahn, Kevin J. Anderson, Vonda McIntyre, Kristin Katherine Rusch, etc) ? when they were writing Star Wars, they were ?slumming it,? most just happy for a chance to write Star Wars. Personally however, I think that Star Wars is fantasy, an in general the sci-fi authors were not in keeping with the feel of the movies. However, the NJO is mostly written by fantasy authors, some of whom are pretty much the best there is in the genre (RA Salvatore, Greg Keyes, Matthew Woodring Stover). It?s been one heck of a ride, and it?s getting better as it goes along.
  15. Jedi_Liz Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2000
    star 6
    why i like the EU:


    The EU gives us a diverse look at the star wars universe itself, introducing us to new places........new characters......new ideas........


  16. Sreya Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2000
    star 2
    Uh huh, and these fantasy-oriented authors have given us the rejects from the Star Trek universe (aka the Vong).

    It IS just weird. It's not consistent. Most of it doesn't make sense in a logical context.

    And the glory of Star Wars is that there are aspects that just can NOT be recreated with the written word. I'm a writer, and I still say this. Words can't describe the Tatooine sunsets, the vast scope of the battle of Geonosis, the size of the Death Star. The camera captures more in a single instant than can be written in an entire chapter. It's the glory of the movies.

    I'm not saying that written Star Wars stories can never compare. But they ARE different, and when you think about it, having such a large series of books to accompany a movie series is a bit strange.

    Sreya
  17. DVader316 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2000
    star 7
    I agree completely. I personally felt that the EU had grown stagnant near the end of the old Bantam line and definitely needed a shot in the arm. The NJO has given me all of that and more, with more action, better character development, and , finally an ounce of realism in the SW universe. As Sturm said earlier, people dont live forever, and I applaud DelRey for finally accepting this inevitability, whether its in our galaxy or the GFFA. I look forward to each and every book of the NJO, and that wasnt the case before this series started.

    As Gandolf said, if youre looking for something different author wise I think you should probably look elsewhere. This isnt Shakespeare, folks. This is just pure escapist reading and should always be looked at as such. With that said, I can understand how some dont like the NJO or EU, and many have legitimate gripes and complaints. I dont like literally everything that has an EU label on it, and neither do alot of the rest of Completists (one of many common misconceptions). I respect you and your decision if you dont like the EU or the NJO, but I will gladly sit back and wait for the next hardcover to be released.
  18. Alion_Sangre Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 2001
    star 4
    I think EU fans tend to look on the saga and George Lucas's universe as a playground for the imagination rather than a masterpiece of artwork to be put in a case and left to age. EU adds more facets to that universe and gives a sense that this is taking place in a galaxy, where people other than the Skywalker family are going through trials and tribulations.

    We get to look back at Qui-gon and Obi-wan's Master-Apprentice relationship, see Sidious, Maul, and Dooku plotting their moves, understand the turmoil in the Senate, and we know of the long history of the Republic, Jedi, and Sith. At the same time, we can look forward to see how our heroes progressed in rebuilding the galaxy and saw other characters who made struggles and sacrifices (characters frequently bashed as the "Mary Sues/Gary Stus," although an all-OT character EU would bore me outta my skull). While some of the Bantam-era EU has its flaws, they aren't reason enough to despise the whole series.

    EU is Star Wars that has taken root and sprouted to encompass far more than what six films can show us.
  19. Gandalf the Grey Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2000
    star 6
    Star Trek rejects? I presume you?re referring to the similarities between the Vong and the Borg ? big nasty invaders that assimilate other cultures to one degree or another. Actually, it?s mindset that?s also kind of similar to the people of Earth in Matthew Woodring Stover?s Heroes Die, the Others in George R. R. Martin?s A Song of Ice and Fire, the Murgo?s and other such groups that the Eddings? created, and the Empire of A New Hope? Let?s face it: if the Vong were called ?orcs? no would bat an eye. They?re fairly standard fantasy villains. :p

    But on the whole, the series works because really good authors are writing it. The people writing this are not no-names without anything important to their credit. They?re some of the leading fantasy authors in the world right now.
  20. JediStryker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2000
    star 4
    Uh huh, and these fantasy-oriented authors have given us the rejects from the Star Trek universe (aka the Vong).

    ?[face_plain] I don't remember Vong-like creatures from Star Trek?

    It IS just weird. It's not consistent. Most of it doesn't make sense in a logical context.

    Could you possibly give some examples?

    And the glory of Star Wars is that there are aspects that just can NOT be recreated with the written word. I'm a writer, and I still say this. Words can't describe the Tatooine sunsets, the vast scope of the battle of Geonosis, the size of the Death Star. The camera captures more in a single instant than can be written in an entire chapter. It's the glory of the movies.

    :eek: I guess it's a matter of opinion. I think that words can describe anything, and with a million times more depth and passion than any camera shot could. A picture can only show you a sunset, words can make you feel it.

    I'm not saying that written Star Wars stories can never compare. But they ARE different, and when you think about it, having such a large series of books to accompany a movie series is a bit strange.

    I disagree; I believe it's the natural evolution of a story that is much to large to be told in six or even nine movies. Lucas himself has said that SW has too much potential to bottle up in his six movies, which is why the EU exists. It's the natural course for SW. :)
  21. Alion_Sangre Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 2001
    star 4
    GL himself has said the movies are a rehash of most of the major myths that have been knocking around civilization for the past few millennia - down to the scrolling text its a resurrection of the hokey old Flash Gordon serials. There's not too many angles that haven't been covered in sci-fi/fantasy movies and stories, so the EU can't be blamed for a few used ideas.
  22. DVader316 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2000
    star 7
    Yup. Thanks to the NJO I have been intoduced to other books that these authors have written, such as Stover's Caine books, which are masterpieces, as well as the Age of Unreason series by Greg Keyes, books by Walter John Williams, and quite a few books by Sean Williams and Shane Dix. I thoroughly enjoyed each and every one of these books and probably would never have discovered these extrememly talented authors if it wasnt for the NJO, and for that I am grateful.


    Also, let us not forget that many of GL's ideas for the movies havent exactly been strokes of imaginitive genious. If you're wondering what I mean than I have only one word for you :



    Foundation. [face_plain]
  23. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    The EU, in my opinion, is far to spotty. There are good books which I loved reading and books I couldn't even force myself to read. The problem is it's impossible to take the EU part for part. I can't talk about it here unless I accept the whole thing as CANON!!!!<angels singing in the back ground> It's really quite offputting.

    More then the books I don't like, more then the off charicterizations, whats driven me away from the EU is having it shoved down my throat by 'completist' here.
    If I say the disconects between it and the movies drove me away you'll deny there are any, so instead let me say the fan bridges of these gaps pushed me away.
  24. Jedi_Satimber Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2002
    star 8
    Why do I like the EU?

    I love the EU, because it has been the catalyst for me reading.
    I have no problem with anything in the EU books, even though that there are 3 books that I am not particularly fond of.

    I hope the EU lives forever.
  25. JediStryker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2000
    star 4
    The EU, in my opinion, is far to spotty. There are good books which I loved reading and books I couldn't even force myself to read. The problem is it's impossible to take the EU part for part. I can't talk about it here unless I accept the whole thing as CANON!!!!<angels singing in the back ground> It's really quite offputting.

    Well, here, it's policy that all of the EU is canon. It's only fair, since we're not supposed to talk about the EU at all in the movie forums. <shrug>

    More then the books I don't like, more then the off charicterizations, whats driven me away from the EU is having it shoved down my throat by 'completist' here.
    If I say the disconects between it and the movies drove me away you'll deny there are any, so instead let me say the fan bridges of these gaps pushed me away.


    That is unfortunate. I have never really seen an example of someone shoving it down another's throat, other than to explain that it is canon, like it or not. I didn't really like TPM, but it's canon, whether I like it or not. Why can't the same rules apply to the EU?

    Are there really that many gaps anyway, farraday?
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