Senate Israel/Palestine

Well, to be fair, The Palestinians aren't really interested in living in peace. They want war. Historically they've always wanted war. And no matter what Israel concedes the Palestinians will find a reason for war.

 

Let me just clarify that when I wrote earlier that it doesn't matter, that was a begrudging recognition of realities: that nations, Western liberal democracies at that, display with their conduct that it doesn't matter, as they frequently ignore their own standards and ideals when it suits their interests. I didn't mean that that's how it should be. I meant that, regrettably, that's how it is. I wasn't stating my ideals on the matter; I was making a disappointed observation. My apologies to anyone who misunderstood that post. I phrased it a little unclear.

 

That's one of the most astonishingly stupid things you've said, J-Rod. You have no basis for saying this; your exposure to Palestinians is through the filter of a well oiled propaganda machine.

 

Well, let's not forget that the Partition Plan was rejected and the rest of the land was "legally" acquired in war instigated against Israel. That said, J-Rod's comments are stupid and Bibi's still a nutter.

 

The rest of the land?
Legally?
You're either parroting or talking out of your neck.

 

I think the fact that "legally" is in quotes means he doesn't think it's really all that "legal."

Do you have any evidence to show that the Palestinian people are some kind of historical warring race?

 

When trying to analyze a subject as broad as 60 years of conduct and motive(s) of a nation of people, the scope becomes so wide that perception becomes reality, really. Unless you delve deep into the matter to like a scholarly level, I guess. It's next to impossible to have any meaningful discussion when casting such a wide net, and highly unlikely to reach any worthwhile conclusions.

 

Well, the usual talking point is that Palestinians "don't exist" and they're a nationality imagined up just to stick it to Israel. So I guess acknowledging their existence is an improvement?

 

Palestinian Children Klingon Warriors planning their next raid on innocent Israelis.

 

Rejoice!

 

If you want to change his mind - and I assume we do - don't try and play to his heart.

 

I'm pretty sure I've said stuff even more astonishingly stupid. However, I know that if Palestine were to put down it's arms and actually not be a threat to Israel true talks could commence and true solutions found. But Israel is always under threat of violence regardless of how the "peace" process goes. No matter what agreement Israel makes, their children will still be bombed in markets and clubs.

 

Well, he's got ya there, Ender.

The thing about your argument is that you're already pro-Israel from the outset as if they're some benevolent society that's not trying its damnedest to to ghettoize Palestinians. That's just not the case. Neither side is just going to unilaterally disarm because neither side trusts the other. And given the history and bad blood between them...I really don't blame anyone for not going, "You know...these guns are really pointless. Let's disarm!" No society in the history of humanity has ever just disarmed on its own. Usually its by force by an invading army.

 

J-Rod, if you were born an Arab in the West Bank, would that make you more likely to do all the things you're saying? Or would you still be a human, an individual, with free choice, not defined by the color of your skin but by the content of your character?

 

It's not the color of their skin. It's simply the culture in which they raise their children. The ones that aren't killed as human shields for their munitions and leaders at any rate.

There is something inherently unfixable about a culture that will use their own children as human shields and then use the deaths of those human shields as a political point. There is also something very close to evil about the cultures who would support this action.

 

Pray tell, what is the solution to an "inherently unfixable" culture? You seem to be implying it shouldn't exist at all.

I'm also wondering how that is more "unfixable" than the American culture which supported Jim Crow or slavery or women's rights, declining to recognize even the basic humanity of huge swaths of their population.

 

Would you say there's something inherently unfixable about German culture because of Nazism rising to power there in the 1940's? Or about Roman culture for crucifying dissenters and persecuting Jews and Christians? Or about Japanese culture because of kamikaze pilots and the pillaging of Chinese cities?

And again, if you were born an Arab in the West Bank... Would you still be a human, an individual, with the power to make decisions freely, defined and controlled not by your culture but by the content of your character?

Also, how big of a percentage do you think supports using human shields (since that was your example)?

 

J-rod, should Palestinians be represented by a state? Any state at all?

 

J-Rod

 

So the PA joined the International Criminal Court today, against protests by Israel and the US. In practice, however, it won't matter all that much. As this article explains, the chances of Israeli leaders actually being prosecuted for anything are minuscule. This is more a symbolic gesture than anything else.

 

The US, once again showing that it's not a biased arbiter in the Israeli-Palestinian peace process.

 

Clearly someone should spend more time reading Bruch.

 

Nazism is unfixable. So it was eliminated. There was no living with the beliefs of Nazis. The mindset and cultural affect of Nazism had to be removed. And it was. Not by placating or bribing or jobs. JOBS!?!?! This administration's fix for tyranny is employment?!? So out of touch.

If I was born an Arab in the West Bank I wouldn't support killing children. Not mine own, and not the enemies. But here's what sucks: These guys have knock-offs of Mickey Mouse and Bugs Bunny telling children that Jews are evil. Why? Because the culture is broken. It must be rebuilt from the ground up. Just like Nazi Germany was.