Senate Israel/Palestine

I literally made this joke in the Malaysia Airlines thread last week. Keep up.

If that can be done without exorbitant civilian losses, then I'd agree with it. But it can't, and it's partly Israel's fault that it can't.

Because it's run by an military autocracy that's perfectly content with innocent Palestinians getting killed? I've already criticized Sisi multiple times here and on facebook before (though I'll admit I was glad to see Morsi go). What's your point?

 

NPR is literally doing an hour long story on ISIS and the Malaki government in Iraq right now.

 

Who the hell listens to radio?

 

...San Francisco

 

I listen to podcasts of (political) radio shows. That counts for something, right... right?

 

Are they AM 570 podcasts on the Dodgers?

 

No. KFI AM 640 programming.

 

This Washington Post graphic gives a clear view of the death toll in the conflict so far.

 

"palestinian civilians continue to make up the largest share of the casualties"

UH DDUUUUUuuuuHHHhhhhh

 

I'm fairly certain many of you have seen this photo elsewhere already, but...



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taken by German astronaut Alexander Gerst from the ISS the other day/night/whatever.

 

Fresh Air had an expert on the subject on earlier. Sad but interesting listen.

 

...that's what I was referring to.

 

Don't be naive.

HAMAS absolutely and knowingly acts the way it does because whatever the outcome it can claim some form of victory. Dead civilians are a small price for them to pay in pursuit of their own goals.

i.e. if you shell Israel and they don't respond, you claim victory for humbling the Jews. If you shell and they respond you point to the casualties and stir up anger and resentment.

There's literally no winning for Israel in either approach, and frankly until HAMAS is removed there is no chance of peace. HAMAS is 100% in control of the outcome here. Abbas and the PA are Bibi's best chance for lasting peace and the Palestinian's best choice for a proper state; the actions of HAMAS and the IDF's response to those actions ensure HAMAS stays in power and keeps the PA out.

I do love the naïvety here of a default assumption that the Palestinians are the victims here. I mean, they are, but of HAMAS which you seem to be inclined to give a free pass to. We know the Israelis are prone to playing the martyr themselves; we know their responses are, and have been since 1948, disproportionate - they've had to fight twice as hard in all major conflicts, and it's ingrained in their defence posture. But we forget that since the Intifadah began the escalation of violence has been driven by HAMAS - it's easier, I guess, to support a trendy cause than to look into it in depth.

Did anyone see the Twitter campaign in support of peace? Some touching images in there.

 

I haven't yet... is there a specific, and this is so silly to say, hashtag for it?

 

I can't access Twitter at work, but if you Google around for it you should find it.

 

The escalation of violence has been caused by the fact that Gaza is under siege and Palestinians are currently being forced to live in poverty.

 

Sigh.

 

#JewsandArabsRefuseToBeEnemies appears to be one of them.

 

That's it.

Vivec given your somewhat cartoonish understanding of the conflict, is this Israel's diabolical plot to identify photos of peaceniks who should be shot, or are the Palestinians just kicked pupped in these photos? You have a very deep understanding of the issue so I am keen for your insight.

 

I think I saw one of two guys, one Palestinian and one Israeli, each waving their home flags together...

 

There's great ones - a Jewish man and Muslim woman kissing over a wall; kids playing together; and joint protests against both sides globally. It highlights how little most people understand about the complexities of the situation and how at the end of the day, I suspect most people on both sides just want to get along.

 

Didn't Israel itself support HAMAS back in the day to undermine PLO? If that's true, there's only two reasons why they would have done that: they're either very smart or very stupid.

 

That sounds a lot like the insipid internet falsehood about Usama bin Laden being funded by the CIA. Nope, in other words.

 

Well, the American government, CIA or not, did supply a group of nut cases in Afghanistan who then later became the same nut cases it has been killing the past decade in Afghanistan. If specifically a fellow by the name of Usama bin Laden was one of them is really a small technicality. See also: the Cold War and verbs.

 

See also: War, Charlie Wilson's.