Senate Israel/Palestine

Discussion in 'Community' started by Obi-Wan McCartney, Jan 4, 2009.

  1. Violent Violet Menace Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2004
    star 4
    I'm not sure why you want our opinion on the HAMAS article, Ender. As mentioned, criticising actions by the Israeli government does not make one a cheerleader for HAMAS. But since you insist, for my part, I thought it was heavily implied in my previous post that I don't think very highly of them. Though I can sympathise with the Palestinians for turning to them, for reasons you put very eloquently in your own most recent post. I feel very confident in assuming the same to be the case with the others you tagged as well. I would be VERY surprised if there were any actual supporters of HAMAS posting here, and this includes even wannasee.

    It's also worth mentioning that I haven't really commented on Israel's conduct per se in my recent postings. My one criticism was of an article that I thought had a faulty perspective on the media attention. My knowledge is limited, so I prefer to read more than I post.

    It's a paradoxical and amusing phenomenon that for all our government's preoccupation with this issue, whenever the Palestinian-Israeli conflict is brought up is usually when Iranians tune out and turn to Angry Birds.
    Last edited by Violent Violet Menace, Jul 28, 2014
    Jedi Merkurian and Ender Sai like this.
  2. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    Oh look, the article isn't heavy handed on HAMAS - it does highlight how the corruption easily took hold as a result of the tunnel economies, but that's about it. It is however a really good insight into the benefits and shortcomings of the tunnel as a de facto import regime. I thought it was interest from an apolitical standpoint, and not because it condemns anyone (and, if it must be said to be critical of anyone, it's Israel first and foremost).

    I learned a lot from it, and was keen to hear your thoughts too. If anything, it made me oddly sympathetic towards the tunnels...
    Last edited by Ender Sai, Jul 28, 2014
    Violent Violet Menace likes this.
  3. Hank Hill Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2013
    star 1
  4. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    As much as I don't like the Young Turks, he makes good points.
  5. wannasee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2007
    star 4
    I supposed it was because he was Jewish because that's the simplest reason one could have for not criticizing Israel, and because the reasons he actually gave were piss-poor and unbelievable.

    Any oppressor could be justified using his reasoning.

    What you quoted doesn't back up your statement. That is to say, in the quote there is nothing whatsoever about liberal values.

    it's just another example of the "we are human beings while they are animals" type of thinking.

    but lol @ israel being more compassionate and caring when they are occupiers and murder civilians at a rate many times that of the "evil" Muslims.
    Last edited by wannasee, Jul 28, 2014
  6. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    You're trolling, wannasee. **** off.
  7. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    For Ender (not accurate, but funny):

    [IMG]

    "You know nothing, John Kerry."
  8. Violent Violet Menace Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2004
    star 4
    You can read Hebrew? Nice going, man!
    Rogue_Ten likes this.
  9. J-Rod Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2004
    star 5
    Are you insane? Hamas has fired more than 2400 rockets this year alone, many (most?) specifically at civilian populations. They broke 5 cease-fire agreements.

    And they hide their arms among civilians as human shields. Are they fooling you into thinking that Israel is targeting civilians and not the military targets that are intentionally hidden there? You should be pointing at Hamas for hiding among innocents. But I suspect you aren't that sophisticated.
  10. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 7
    j-rod read the thread. i mean, not all of it obvi but like the last few pages at least

    edit: you know what nevermind its wannasee vs j-rod
    Last edited by Rogue_Ten, Jul 29, 2014
    J-Rod likes this.
  11. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    Yeah @J-Rod, ignore wannasee. He's trolling, and in a sense a lot like the JC's own version of Elliott Rodger.

    The human shield element is a valid one, but it's one that both sides need to account for. It's incomprehensible to us, but a tactic Islamic extremists favour, that one should use women and children as something to hide behind. But, if I do the policy equivalent of windmilling my arms and saying "look, woman and children, I'm going after the HAMAS guy behind your back, and if I happen to strike you with these arms it wasn't intentional ok?" - it doesn't really do much to resolve the matter does it?

    I mean, yes, they give notice of their intent to bomb an area but Israel is and I think remains undeterred by the notion of collateral damage for anyone who didn't heed the warnings or who gets caught up in the conflagration as they strike targets. The nuance is subtle, and for many that's an excuse to erroneously shout "TARGETING CIVILIANS OMG" but I don't think that's accurate. I think Israel is single minded in its pursuit of military objectives and it will not be deterred by civilians if they don't evacuate as directed.
    Jedi Merkurian and J-Rod like this.
  12. heels1785 Jedi Draft Commissioner

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2003
    star 6
    Here's a shot from Gaza, taken a few hours ago. I'm sure this only killed a few members of Hamas.

    [IMG]
  13. MistrX Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2006
    star 4
    They hit something in particular that caused that one?
  14. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
  15. Mr44 VIP

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 6
    On the up-side, it is the perfect setting to go HALO down and meet Godzilla face to face....
  16. wannasee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2007
    star 4
    ok, and how many people have they killed?

    bwhahahahah you believe that stuff about the human shields?

    you are the one being fooled, my friend.
  17. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    The human shield stuff is not disputed, wannabee.
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  18. wannasee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2007
    star 4
    the wiki article on human shields says it is.
  19. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    The wiki article on MH-17 says Russian-backed rebels had nothing to do with it -- or did until they realised a Russian government source was changing the page. Do try harder for sources, darling.
    Last edited by Saintheart, Jul 30, 2014
  20. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    Yeah, if you weren't trolling and had an interest proper discussion, wannasee (note; for the avoidance of doubt, I would say you are and don't, respectively) you would see by the "Talk" page that the article's under review due to failure to comply with Wikipedia guidelines. Meaning the rabid pro-Jewish, pro-Israeli edit group and pro-Palestinian, radical Islamic types have come to blows in Wikipedia, which is serious business.

    Amnesty notes that in the past HAMAS have done this, but cannot verify the use in the current conflict.
  21. burrisjedimaster1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 4
    I wish these govnements wouldt bomb each other.... to much sadness within the deathtol
  22. epic Ex Mod / RSA

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 1999
    star 7
    yep, and hardly a military target.
  23. G-FETT Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2001
    star 7
    Indeed. It's a terrible and depressing situation.
  24. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9


    Sssh ssshhhhh drunky.


    nope.
    Last edited by Ender Sai, Jul 30, 2014
  25. wannasee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2007
    star 4
    Wikipedia is a better source than Ender's bare assertion... because it's actually a source, with links to other sources.

    Meaning that the veracity of the human shield stuff is, in fact, disputed?:p
    Last edited by wannasee, Jul 30, 2014