Senate Israel/Palestine

Ender Sai that is the House floor. The senators sit there with house members during special joint sessions like today's speech and the presidential state of the union. But the senate has their own separate chamber for regular duties.


The senate chamber is on the left end. House floor is on the right.

 

No the brothels are just off K street.

Interesting little side note. During the civil war, DC was full of thousands of union troops stationed to protect the city from possible confederate raid or attack. The town's brothel and saloon business saw explosive growth. The man in charge of the union forces: General Joseph Hooker.

 

Sorry Shane, I knew the answer and it was a shamefully loaded question.

I guess my question was around the notion of a joint house address; are Senators present in the lower house for the speech?

If so, a net gain of 50 people in the room would offset the Democrat protest no?

 

Americans support Israel because there's an "Israel" in the Bible, and also an "Israel" here in the present-day, so obviously Israelis are the good guys by definition and we don't need to take a look at what they're actually doing.

 

Well, why didn't you say so?

Yes, they are present. That's why it's referred to as a joint address. Don't think of it as a joint-house address but a joint address in the house. They hold it there because it's larger and can accommodate everyone, reps and the additional senators(and supremes and cabinet members for state of the union). If they held it in the senate chamber, they would be sitting on each others laps. Although from what is known about some of them, they would like that.

 

I think you underweight the value of Holocaust guilt in America's support of Israel.

 

I'm pretty familiar with the reasons that a lot of Americans support Israel, but rarely do they ever cite a specific tangible benefit that the state of Israel supplies the United States, which is what I was (mostly rhetorically) asking.

 

I... actually tend to agree with Alpha-Red, that between Holocaust guilt (which exists) and evangelical support, the evangelical support will tip in favor.

However, I also do believe that the bulk of Americans do so because it is the only "like us" country in the Middle East, even if it's not really "like us." It's still a close-ally and a Democracy in a region with oligarchs and despots until very recently.

 

Compared to oligarchs and despots, yes it is democratic.

 

... a parliamentary democracy is somehow not democratic?

 

Considering that there are millions of disenfranchised people-- people who don't even technically hold citizenship in any state-- living under Israeli control, "compared to" is quite fair.

It would also apply to the United States.

 

If Holocaust guilt were such a factor, then shouldn't Israel's biggest advocate be Germany? But even Germans today are being turned off by Israel's occupation and settlement policies.

The question about tangible benefits is completely irrelevant because to the average person, Israel is good by definition and so we must support them. It's like a religious edict that has to be obeyed and which overrides all other considerations, such as talk of "tangible benefits". We're talking about the same people who can't find Ukraine or Iraq on a map, so what makes us think that they'll take tangible benefits into mind when they think about Israel?

 

Um, between jailing Holocaust deniers, the reparations paid after WWII, the supply of Israel's Dolphin-class submarine fleet or the secret, joint cooperation on Operation Bluebird (a nuclear earning warning system) I'd say Germany and Israel are just fine?

 

Yes, I know all that and I agree. Are you saying that you agree with the point of my rhetorical question, which is that our alliance with Israel provides us with essentially no tangible benefit?

 

Certainly there hasn't been a rupture in relations between the two countries. But my point is that in Germany, a country that obviously bears more guilt more perpetrating the Holocaust than America does in failing to stop it, the conversation is tilting towards "Hey, what Israel is doing is wrong. We need to criticize them and bring a stop to this". You can't even say that in America without being instantly labeled an anti-Semite or a terrorist sympathizer.

 

Since I was responding to Alpha-Red and not you, you might want to not look too hard for pieces of a missing puzzle.

Because you're fundamentally different as people. Americans are more emotional, more heart on sleeve, and more inclined to believe in objective right-and-wrong which consequently means they're more likely to feel inclined towards non-pragmatic displays. Germans are quite stoic and would focus more on ensuring it does not happen again and that to the extent they can right wrongs, they do - that is, they do more than they talk about doing.

 

I think maybe once there was a tangible benefit. During the Cold War we were looking for allies in the Middle East, and Israel in particular was situated right by the Suez Canal. But with the Cold War having ended, support for Israel seems to continue more as a result of domestic politics than any cold cost-benefit considerations. That's not necessarily a bad thing...I would say it's a worthwhile endeavor to defend a lot of our allies against potential aggression if they were threatened. But in the case of Israel, we have an ally behaving badly but public opinion leans so heavily in favor of supporting this country that it's nearly impossible to restrain them.

 

Hear it from your representative of North Carolina.

As a democratic ally, Israel has been a strategic beachhead for the United States in the Middle East. In essence, Israel is an aircraft carrier for the U.S., which doesn't require a single American boot on board. Israel has assisted in training US special ops forces before going to Iraq and Afghanistan, provided tactical advice, and shared its armored-plating technology to help save the lives of US soldiers. They provide America more intelligence than all NATO countries combined, further helping to protect our men and women in foreign combat and our families here at home from sleeper cells in the United States.

 

"Provides more intelligence than NATO".

I see he's a biblical conservative then. Or, as we outside the US would say, a ****ing moron.

 

He has the Bush Glance.

 

You mean "Evangelical Steel"?

 

Eh, that too, but mostly the "I don't understand?" look in their eyes.

 

Oh, that would be the "evangelical" part.

"I understand very little however I'm deeply insecure about a number of points and accordingly, I favour doomsday scenarios, ridiculous predictions, and an assumption that my god is as much of a **** as I am."

 

I doubt he'll mention the Israeli spies who have acted against our interests here in the states.

SuperWatto the "Bush glance" reminds me of the Sex Pistols song title "Pretty Vacant".