Issues regarding the CR Code of Conduct

Discussion in 'FanForce Communications' started by anakin_girl, Nov 16, 2003.

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  1. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    This has come up for two reasons, one being a recent incident regarding a CR friend of mine, another regarding some things that have happened to me in the past.

    First off, my friend's story.

    She was recently banned for "conduct unbecoming a CR". She had made some jokes about Jews in a thread with her friends--it was one of those cases where you have to be an insider to understand the humor, and I am certainly not in favor of racist jokes--however, my friend's boyfriend is Jewish. If anyone had bothered asking her and had gotten this information, they would have known that the entire thread was in jest. But no one asked. She merely received a four-day ban for her comments, no warning prior. To add insult to injury, the banning came four days after she made the comments. It was also her first ban as a CR.

    Now my story.

    I was banned back in March for 48 hours for telling another poster to "drop the snooty attitude". It was my first ban ever, however, I thought that was a minor offense. I was then banned in August over a thread in Community. A poster had said that all homosexuals should be put on an island and the island blown up. This poster received 24 hours--essentially for making a death threat to a portion of the JC population. I said that the poster deserved to be put on an island with gay rapists. My original sentence was two weeks--and as in my friend's case, it didn't happen until three days after I made the comment.

    This whole thing is silly. I am not opposed to CRs being role models. However, I am opposed to the idea that we have to act as doormats, allow people to be rude to us and not be able to retaliate, receive bans double the length of regular users, for lesser offenses and delayed, and continually be forced to act as helpy-helpers, when the only privilege we have is having our name highlighted in fancy blue. We can't moderate our FanForce, we can't even lock threads in the forum. Exactly what do we get in return for having to be so restrained and careful,such a perfect example?

    I can't tell you the number of times I have considered stepping down as CR due to these issues, and the fact that all other VIPs on this board are treated with more respect than regular posters, rather than having more rules forced upon them. My friend is also considering stepping down as CR, and if she does so, I will feel obligated to follow suit as soon as EagleIFilms turns 18 and can take over for me. This would make me very sad, as I enjoy working with my FanForce and always have.

    I just thought that the FF staff should be aware that they are driving people away.
  2. TK7771 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2001
    star 4
    I agree.

    Yes a CR should be helpful to new members of the boards.But if they are treated badly or poked fun at, they should be allowed to defend themselves. This whole thing about CR's being held to higher standards of other members is laughable. It's not like their chosen the same way as GSA's or Regional Mods.Their own FF either votes or chooses to have them represent their respected club.

    It would be understandable if CR's had the power to moderate their own forum.But just cause they have pretty blue user names shouldn't hold em back from defending themselves or joking around with other members of the boards.

    Doubling the punishment for some lame offense is just plain silly.Plus the fact that the punishments listed above came 4 days after the offense was made,thats just wrong!

  3. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    Reposted from FF Reps Forum:

    I'm also in agreement with this...

    At one time I was 'verbally smacked' for calling our head of state a moron... It felt like I was being told that by expressing my opinion about the jackass that is running our country I was doing a diservice to my fan force. I got news for you... my FF is pretty liberal and they know the differance between the opinions of DarthBreezy the poster and DarthBreezy the fan force rep. One of my members is joining the army because he supports Dubya... it doesn't make a differance in our group, and if VIP's need to moderate their opinions, then you'd better start holding the mods to the same standards. We have a diverse community, everyone is entitled to an opinion and I don't like the idea of self censoring for the sake of some percieved 'decorum' that seems to be only applied to FF CRs...
  4. droideka27 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2002
    star 7
    Being the "friend" in AG's post, I am chipping in here.

    I resigned as CR. It's just not worth it to me anymore.

    I post at the JC for fun, not to be a model citizen. [face_plain]
  5. gwaernardel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    I still haven't gotten a response about this part of the CR Code of Conduct:

    The first time you will be warned. We will let you know exactly what we think you did wrong, and what we think you can do to make it not happen again.
    The second time you will have a temporary demotion, time to be determined depending on the offence. Some offences will get longer punishments than others.
    If you commit an offence for the third time you will be permanently demoted and we will ask your chapter to elect a new CR.


    Was there a warning? Gee, it seems like there wasn't. So this code that everyone is quoting as if it were God (I can spell it out cause I'm not Jewish) specifically has a consequence for the first time something happens, yet no one is following it.
  6. HawkNC Former RSA: Oceania

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2001
    star 6
    That is being looked into as we speak. We need to make sure that all RSAs know the proper procedure for banning and demoting CRs.
  7. TK7771 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2001
    star 4
    That is being looked into as we speak. We need to make sure that all RSAs know the proper procedure for banning and demoting CRs.

    In other words, don't hold your breath waiting on an answer. It may never come!
  8. HawkNC Former RSA: Oceania

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2001
    star 6
    I will make the answer come.
  9. TK7771 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2001
    star 4
    I'll believe it when I see it!
  10. droideka27 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2002
    star 7
    You must have faith, child.
  11. gwaernardel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    Tracy, you just called someone a child. That's ageism. [face_plain]
  12. TK7771 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2001
    star 4
    Child? No need for name calling.

    Tracy, you just called someone a child. That's ageism.
    The funny part is,I'm older then her [face_laugh]

    I just no how it works around here.Ask for something and it takes a very, very long time to see results.
  13. droideka27 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2002
    star 7
    Are you implying that the FF does not work efficiently and correctly? :eek:

    PS sorry, I will henceforth refer to you as "Elder one" :p
  14. gwaernardel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    If I may paraphrase...

    Any type of anti-[children] comments or...discriminating statements are against the TOS whether in jest or not. The fact that someone was or wasn't [a child] isn't the point.
  15. TK7771 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2001
    star 4
    Are you implying that the FF does not work efficiently and correctly?

    Let just say that things could be better ;)

    PS sorry, I will henceforth refer to you as "Elder one"

    Cool, that works! I'm an elder of the tribe in my FF also :cool: :D
  16. LordJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 15, 2001
    star 4
    This post is not meant in any way to be an attack, it is simply a statement of facts and opinions the way they were seen by me. The thread in question, here does not show any attacks on the person involved in 6 pages of posts. Also, from the 2nd page of the CR code of conduct:

    Even though the policy was not changed you can be banned without warning if the said user did something bad enough.

    You can read it for yourself here. That said, it was deemed to be "bad enough" by almost everyone that read it. I say almost, because only 1 person (besides those in the thread) to my knowledge knew it was a joke. I personally never once thought Tracy was racist or anything like that. I just thought the comments were totally inappropriate for a FF CR. For that matter, I think those types of comments are totally inappropriate for anyone. I did not know or realize that the comments were meant as a joke to the person they seemed to be directed at. I only found out a day or so later. That, IMO, still does not excuse the comments made.

    Did she deserve a ban? IMO, yes. Did it need to be for 4 days? That I'm not sure about. I personally feel that her comments were pretty harsh, since I didn't know she was kidding, and I think anyone else that didn't know what was going on would think the same. However, it is also my personal opinion that the thread in question should've been locked a lot sooner than it was, but there's nothing that can be done about that now.
  17. gwaernardel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    Even though the policy was not changed you can be banned without warning if the said user did something bad enough.

    And yet the JCC mods (whose job it is to moderate this sort of thing on a daily basis) did not find it even worthy of a warning. Did you talk to them about this? Did you complain to them while the thread was still open that it should have been locked? Did you consult with them on the severity of the matter?

    That said, it was deemed to be "bad enough" by almost everyone that read it. I say almost, because only 1 person (besides those in the thread) to my knowledge knew it was a joke.

    Once again, did you PM a mod about it? Because no one else did. No one was offended enough to ask a mod to lock it. The only people, it seems, that were offended by it are the higher-ups in Tracy's FanForce chapter.

    I personally feel that her comments were pretty harsh, since I didn't know she was kidding, and I think anyone else that didn't know what was going on would think the same.

    And yet none of her comments were edited out. She wasn't warned for flaming. She wasn't warned for being racist. She wasn't warned for anything of the sort.

    It occurs to me that the only people that would even be reading the thread would either know it's a joke or be looking through Tracy's posts for a reason to ban her. Honestly, did you really get a huge public outcry because she poked fun at someone who happens to be on her WUL and posts in the same threads as her all the time? I would certainly hope not.

    I highly doubt that the stipulation in the thread about something really bad being banworthy was put in for a minor flame (at most) toward a friend. I could understand if she started swearing and posting porn all over the place, but this is ridiculous.
  18. HawkNC Former RSA: Oceania

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2001
    star 6
    Even though the policy was not changed you can be banned without warning if the said user did something bad enough.

    Sorry, I don't see that part. Where exactly is it written? It contradicts what was written in both the initial CR Code of Conduct and the RSA handbook.
  19. LordJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 15, 2001
    star 4
    And yet the JCC mods (whose job it is to moderate this sort of thing on a daily basis) did not find it even worthy of a warning.

    A warning was given earlier in the thread before it was locked. It was given to everyone in the thread. It seems, from my viewpoint, that things spiraled down from there and then the thread was locked.

    Did you complain to them while the thread was still open that it should have been locked?

    I was actually in the process of PMing a mod when the thread was locked. I agree that the comments should have been edited out as well.

    The only people, it seems, that were offended by it are the higher-ups in Tracy's FanForce chapter.

    If by higher-ups you mean, initially, a few officers, I guess you'd be right. Are we not aloud to read Community now? And our FF CR Code of Conduct, as well as the one linked to, does not specifically say JC or FF boards. Again, I was in the process of PMing a mod when it was locked. It was, IMO, getting way out of hand.

    It occurs to me that the only people that would even be reading the thread would either know it's a joke or be looking through Tracy's posts for a reason to ban her.

    Or just be reading Community like we always do. Seriously, do you think we go looking for people to come down on? Like I said, I had no idea any of it was a joke. I knew some of the people in there from posts on Community, but I didn't know how many of them knew each other.

    Honestly, did you really get a huge public outcry because she poked fun at someone who happens to be on her WUL and posts in the same threads as her all the time?

    I didn't even look at her WUL, so I had no idea what she was doing. I didn't expect her to ever post anything like that. Do people need to look at other peoples WUL everytime they post something to see if it might just be a joke? And I honestly didn't realize the person posts in the same threads as her, probably cause I don't necessarily read/post in all the same threads she or the other person does.

    I highly doubt that the stipulation in the thread about something really bad being banworthy was put in for a minor flame (at most) toward a friend.

    Once more, I did not realize you were friends. I only know now because someone else, not Tracy, told me. From an outsiders perspective, it didn't look minor. It honestly looked like she was trashing religion from an outside perspective. Maybe the use of a smiley or two would've helped, like :p All I saw were :)

    With that said, once again, she was a CR. Joking or not, she was representing her FF on the FF boards as well as Community and everywhere else she posted. No one was asking her to be perfect. No one, to my knowledge, is asking any CR to be a perfect little angel. But again, it was not seen as a joke by others and we shouldn't have to know who's friends with who and who's on who's WUL to not be offended by something.

    I noticed that she hasn't even mentioned that she did realize it could be seen as offensive (she mentioned that on our message boards, not here at TFN). Instead, she chooses to, from my perspective, poke fun at the process.

    Sorry, I don't see that part. Where exactly is it written? It contradicts what was written in both the initial CR Code of Conduct and the RSA handbook.

    Bottom of page 2. It's in Rox's reply to the 2nd part of the previous message.
  20. droideka27 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2002
    star 7
    So, CR's are not expected to be little angels, yet I wasn't even given a warning OR a chance to explain myself before the banning. And I wasn't notified of why I was banned, I had to find shawn and go ask him if he knew what was going on... good thing he was online [face_plain]

    PS If one single person had sent me a PM asking me to edit my comments because they were offended, I would have done it in a heartbeat. And Barry, you know me, you talk to me on AIM, you could have easily done that :) Especially since you were SO SHOCKED
  21. TK7771 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2001
    star 4
    No one, to my knowledge, is asking any CR to be a perfect little angel.

    Maybe you should re-read the CR code of conduct thread again.
  22. LordJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 15, 2001
    star 4
    So, CR's are not expected to be little angels, yet I wasn't even given a warning OR a chance to explain myself before the banning.

    I wasn't involved with the banning, so there's not much I can say about it.

    And I wasn't notified of why I was banned, I had to find shawn and go ask him if he knew what was going on... good thing he was online

    Ah, but isn't that the case with a lot of bans? I'm not excusing it, I'm just saying that a lot of people get banned for "unknown" reasons and have to ask around a bit before they find out why.

    If one single person had sent me a PM asking me to edit my comments because they were offended, I would have done it in a heartbeat.

    I'm not the type of person that's going to go around PMing every person that posts something that I find offensive, asking them to edit their posts. I would PM a mod, more than likely, before I'd PM the person. Of course, the only people I'd ever consider doing that to I'd more than likely be able to find on IM and just ask them about it there.

    And Barry, you know me, you talk to me on AIM, you could have easily done that Especially since you were SO SHOCKED

    I'm not sure you were online at the time. Like I said in my previous post, I was just forming a message to a mod when the thread was locked.

    Maybe you should re-read the CR code of conduct thread again.

    I've read it twice thank you. I think I can safely say that it wouldn't be that difficult to follow it. It might get a little difficult if you were posting in the Senate or being flamed, but then again, you can always just ignore the person and PM a mod.
  23. droideka27 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2002
    star 7
    I'm not sure you were online at the time. Like I said in my previous post, I was just forming a message to a mod when the thread was locked.

    I garentee I was... I was in a chat the entire night. I know a lot of bans happen with out warning, but since I know you, I think you should have given me the courtsey of talking to me before giving it to Shawn. But I have noticed a lot of things in FF work like this. Quick! Let's handle it decreeting behind their back. Dude, I was vice president. A very involved person in this fan force, yet....

    Arg.


    I've read it twice thank you. I think I can safely say that it wouldn't be that difficult to follow it. It might get a little difficult if you were posting in the Senate or being flamed, but then again, you can always just ignore the person and PM a mod.

    Oh, I can't wait for Shawn to name you CR :)

  24. Woofer Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2001
    star 4
    I think people are forgetting to put the CR rules of Conduct into perspective.

    Lets face it. The Force.net attracts a large amount of Star Wars fans. A large portion of those people visit the message forums everyday.

    At some point, those users will discover the regional forums and look for the chapter closest to them.

    Now this person could be the best asset a FanForce chapter could ever have. The next President of the club, or a fantastic publicity person. Even if that person isn't, a new member is a new member. Every group always wants to welcome new members.

    So what happens when he or she goes to their local forum and see the type of comments that are being discussed. They won't know its a joke. They may be extremely offended. The person will certainly not be joining that club, and will consider FanForce itself in a poor light.

    Same goes for the person who visits the forum dirctly via a link from a website. Once again, they won't understand the joking nature of the comments, and that person can't even place it in context compared to the JC.

    Want a third example? What about the Lucasfilm employee who decides to visit his old hometown forum to say Hi? What do you think he'll be telling his co-workers about what he saw in that forum?

    I can give other examples, but it should be clear why the terms are in place. That the CR is expected to not only be a model poster regarding the terms; but should be wary of how the posts in their forum will affect the club they represent in the big picture.

    Those are the issues being considered when any person is banned, and doubly taken into consideration when its a CR who is encouraging the posts.
  25. droideka27 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2002
    star 7
    Yet my posts took place in JCC. If they had occurred in any FF forum, I would heartily agree with you.

    The JC and FF really should be seperated, although i think the odds of that occurring are a billion to one.

    I was at the JC before FF and I refuse to post like a happy helper simply because I want to be involved in my local fan force chapter.

    Now, it's irrelevant, because I don't want to do anything to help them out anymore.
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