Pittsburgh, PA It has begun

Discussion in 'NorthEast Regional Discussion' started by corran_16201, Mar 19, 2003.

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  1. corran_16201 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 3
    Well with the first stages underway and the President just off the TV thought I'd ask everyone's opinions since this has proven a very hot topic of discussion at school. I do ask we keep it more civil than some of those conversations.

    Heres whatt I think:
    We had to do this. To ignore its as dumb as leaving a guy you don't trust holding a gun to your back. My history teacher feels we shouldn't because we don't have UN backing from France, Germany and Russia which I'll point out that I am a honest to god patriotic son of a gun so that unfluences this one a bit. I think Germany should be grateful it exists now and isn't a big plot of radiation like 2 certain cities in a country that does back us. France owes us one or actually 3 but whos counting. And don't get me started on Russia's problems.

    Another counter argument I heard in recent days is that its none of our bussiness or their right to have WMD since hey we do and they don't trust us. Heres my 2 cents to that one. Last time we left a maniac alone I can't remeber the exact numbers but what over 2 million jews where killed, millions of others died and most of the worlds greatest buildings and artifacts were blasted to the firey pits of Hades. As to not trusting us and keeping the weapons well they should have considered teh consequences before going hostile with Kuwait back before the Persain Gulf war.

    Just my opinion dont "flog" me as teh new saying goes
  2. Fluke_Groundrunner Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2001
    star 4
    So you are saying that Saddam is holding a gun to our backs?
  3. JediJasen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 15, 2002
    star 3
    Personally, I'm for this. George W is just finishing up the job his dad started over ten years ago. The Iraqi people are scared ****less and are screaming to be freed but are just too afraid to say it because of that madman and his two psycho sons! Did you hear the news about what someone at a radio station said? He said, "This is the day we've waited for." Hmmm...Let's see if he says that after the hundreth bomb has been dropped. Those 17 soldiers were the smartest knives in the droor as far as Im concerned. There will be more, you can count on that. What I am a little concerned though, is that these actions will result in something happening to us. This is also in no way shape or form about oil either! But hey, if the oil drops in price after he's outta there, well, thats just a bonus. And it wouldnt suprise me either if it does. So thats where I stand. All we can do now is just support our troops for a quick and safe assault and hope this ends as soon as possible. God willing, the leaders of that country will see what they got themselves into and give up.
  4. Rox Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 24, 2000
    star 6
    Wathc the swearing JJ. If you feel the need to use a curse word block out all letters in it not just one. K, thx.
  5. Saberpilot Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 4
    I am a pacifist, as many of you know. I am anti-war.
    I will not share my views on this board because I do not want to upset anyone.
  6. Mrs_jedi_1966 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2002
    star 3
    ** :) she's a tree hugger :) **
  7. Shewski Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2002
    star 4
    I like the line they are broadcasting on the Iraqi radio:

    "The day you have waited for is at hand"

  8. Lando_Da_Pimp Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2002
    star 2
    Nobody should stop themselves from posting how they feel about stuff. You are allowed to. Its called freedom.

  9. JediJasen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 15, 2002
    star 3
    Sorry Rox.

    Maybe I shouldnt have said my POV though, after posting this I was just thinking that this is a close group of people and maybe things that are happening now might might draw lines. This is a SW fans board and things of this kind might not be a good thing to post. I dont know...just what Im thinking now.
  10. jedi_1966 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2001
    star 3
    No no,JJ.Post your POV (just don't swear in it....hehe),it is yours and as well as I think I know (well...you've been around here for a while so you should too)everyone here,I wouldn't think it'll draw lines.After all,my padawan did ask for each of our thoughts on the subject.
    Mine?I believe in peace,first & foremost.Attaining it by all means available.If it can not be achieved and there is no other choice,then....well,you know.I feel that this is exactly what Pres. Bush has done,and I fully support him and the actions (as well as our troops,everywhere)he has taken.
    Another thought on your POV,which I feel you are allowed to express (in a PG manner of course,not meaning that you don't already know that),that's what all 1/4 million troops are over there fighting for our freedom to keep being able to put all of our POV's forth.
    And Saberpilot your POV should be spoken as well,wether anyone agrees with you or not,so speak up girl.
    WHEW!Sorry...I got carried away...
  11. greencat336 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2001
    star 5
    Its a SW website, but this is a general, social board so as long as we are having a civil discussion about current events, I don't see a problem. The main thing though is that civil part. Disagreements are fine (and at times a very amusing way to spend one's time) but no getting personal or nasty.

    That said, here's my two credits:

    I do not support our actions in Iraq. While fully acknowledging Sadaam is a very very evil dictactor, I have yet to be convinced that he is a direct threat to the US. The connection between Iraq and Al Qida is tenious at best. There are lots and lots of evil dicators in the world, who suppress and abuse their own people. If the US made it our goal to depose all of them, we wouldn't be doing anything else . . .

    The comparision between Hitler and Sadaam is not a valid one. Hitler's goals were to eliminate from the earth all non-Aryans (for the record it was 6 million Jews, and about 6 million others of assorted 'undesirables') and to conquer the world. He was a valid threat since Hitler's army was very successful in taking over other countries and killing off people in concentration camps.

    Sadaam, on the other hand, in the 23 years he has been in power in Iraq, has not won a single war and has failed to gain power in any other country besides his own.

    As for the UN. One of the excuses we are using to justify the war is that Iraq has failed to comply with UN instructions to disarm. So the US is disobeying UN resolutions to enforce UN resolutions???? I've heard that song before -- "We had to destroy the village to save it" (For you younglings, go ask your folks about a little war in Vietnam)

    Although the UN isn't the most effective organization on the planet, the idea of an internation organization that is used to settle disputes so war isn't necessary is a good thing. We should be working on strengthening this, not weakening it by ignoring its resolutions.

    Is this war about oil? I don't think so. I think its about ego. About showing that the US expects to be obeyed when they tell other countries what to do. I think its about using Iraq as an 'example' --> see what we did to this country that we thought was a threat to us? Do you want to be a threat to us and have us 'deal' with you, too?

    Although I do tend to be anti-war, I'm not a pacifist. I fully supported stomping the crap out of Afghanistan because it seemed that there was no doubt about the Afghanistan government having strong ties to the group that attacked our country. I feel the US not only should have been involved in WWII, but we should have entered the war years earlier and we should have let a lot more Jews come to the US (we only allowed very small numbers to enter).

    But this war, I believe we should not be fighting. I don't think its worth the American lives that will be spent. I don't think its worth the billions of dollars that would be better spent for Americans in need (education, medical research, unemployment assistance, suppliemntal insurance/health care for low income people, libraries, museums, the space program, etc)
  12. DarthDahc Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2002
    star 3
    OK my 19 cents are that war es gut and i hope we kill all da bad guys. I have reasons but i don't want 2 pages of it
  13. corran_16201 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 3
    Acutally the comparsion of mine is sound in numbers not goals Hitler= genocide and Sadam has killed over a million of his own people not sure if thats the typically accpeted number but I consider it genocide.
  14. Fluke_Groundrunner Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2001
    star 4
    What Saddam has done to is own people has nothing to do with why we are there.
  15. corran_16201 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 3
    Um actually GW said it was or how did the press secretary put it "the liberations of Iraq has begun"
  16. Fluke_Groundrunner Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2001
    star 4
    If the main reason we were there was to 'liberate' the people of Iraq, then we will have a lot more of liberating to do after Iraq.

    I agree with greencat. This war has a lot to do with ego, it's just that Iraq is the best target to flaunt that ego.

    Now, don't get me wrond, Saddam should go if he doesn't let the weapons inspectors do their jobs, but the US pushed the UN to move faster then they were comfortable with. Remember, it wasn't ONLY France that told us to wait. Russia and Germany disagreed too.

    Bush should have waited for those contries to come into an agreement, but he didn't and actually commited a war crime by going aginast a UN resolution.
  17. jedi_1966 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2001
    star 3
    Respectfully,my brother and sister I dissagree that it is not about ego. Granted G.W. is a Texan (not that that is a bad thing),yes, we did move a bit too quickly but how long does one wait?
  18. Mrs_jedi_1966 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2002
    star 3
    ok ~ just a few free floating thoughts to spew out:

    1st - GC - u stated "I fully supported stomping the crap out of Afghanistan because it seemed that there was no doubt about the Afghanistan government having strong ties to the group that attacked our country."

    Feeling in this general vacinity; do you know that Saddam has ties to Bin Laden as well? Are you aware of the proof the government has that Saddam was helping to "mastermind" these attacks? As well as the proof that he has more terroristic attacks planned towards us?

    I do not think this has anything to do with ego. I think it's starting to get personal. ie: the French buying pretzels and mailing them to the White House.

    I'm not sure I support the idea of war. But I do support the millions of men and women who are willing to go where they are told to go to fight for our freedoms and help defend people who can't defend themselves. Without these people I couldn't post my views on here. These protesters make my sick! You may not like war, but this is our country, our government, and our men & women fighting. They need all the support and help they can get. If you don't agree with something and feel the need to protest = do it peacefully. I think last night was an embarassement for the city of Pittsburgh as well as any other city that had to have people arrested because of the protests/riots.

    As far as why we are there:
    This man is definately a monster who has been strongly linked to Bin Laden & the 9.11 attacks and has made several threats against the US. This alone makes being there resonable enough for me. Then we add on to the fact of him and his sons killing millions of his own people. We are past the JFK days of walls around our boarders. I hate the label the US wears of the "playground police" but it still holds true. Since we are one of the major superpowers of the world, this duty seems to fall on us. We try to help those who need help - save those who need saved - protect those who can not protect themselves. All of these ideas hold true for the citizens of Iraq. They don't know what it's like to be able to express their point of view or to be who they want to be or live the way they want to live. Instead they have to live the way that will make Saddam happy.

    Saddam has made several threats against the US. Should we let him continue to threaten and hope he never attacks us ~ or should we confront the "bully" that he is in his own backyard? The weapons that he has been stockpiling for the past 12 years: should we ignore these and hope he never uses them or should we make him get rid of them.

    Personnaly, I like the pro-active stance = cut the head off the snake before it has a chance to bite you. Most common snakes don't bite = they strangle to kill. But why take the chance? You eliminate an issue when it first arrives you won't have a major problem later.

    No matter what thoughts or feelings you might have regarding war. Think of the humans who volunteered their lives and dedicated themselves to protect our country at all costs. These men and women need your support, thoughts and prayers. At least show support for them!
  19. Lando_Da_Pimp Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2002
    star 2
    I was not a fan of George Bush when he ran for office. I voted for Gore. Although all the canidates were the same.

    I think that for the most part Bush has done a good job. He handled 9/11 very well. I also believe that we are in Iraq because of 9/11. You got a crazy dictator over there who supports terrorism and threatens are way of life. If you don't believe that read about what him and his sons have done to the people of Iraq.

    We were trying to do this war the proper way through the UN but there is no way it was ever going to go through. France would never back the war because they have too many deals with Iraq. Its all about money.

    I support the war and getting rid of people like suddam. Your welcome to protest the war that is your right. If you lived in Iraq you would be killed for your beliefs. I saw on the news last night all of the protesters. In one city they were burning the flag. That is completely wrong. Makes me sick. You can protest but don't disrupt people's lives. I sat in traffic yesterday because 500 people decided to run around the streets. What did that accomplish?

    You want to know why we are there? Watch videos of 9 /11 and remember how you felt.
  20. Shewski Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2002
    star 4
    I'm excited that at least portions of the Iraqi military are surrendering or not resisting. The less lives lost on both sides, the better.

    BTW, did anyone see that there was a Scud fired at Kuwait but it was a dud and landed in the desert? And silly Saddam said he had not Scuds... tsk tsk tsk ;)
  21. ZeroCool69 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2002
    star 2
    Finally, I am returned! (just kidding)

    War huh? Well, here we go:
    The biggest thing the bothers me about this war is this. This war is against Saddam Hussein(sp?) and Iraq. But why? This whole need for war and military action came about from the tragedies of 9.11. And Osam Bin Laden claimed responsabiliy for those. Did he nessicarily do it alone? No. But that's the person we should be going after with our troops and our armies. The problem is, we can't find Bin Laden. We don't know where he is. But we know where Sadam is. And we think he was in "cahoots" with Bin Laden. So we'll go after him, and hope he gives us information we think he has. And if not? Well, at least we got rid of an evil dictator. Because as has been said, it's an ego thing. Our nation is attacked, and we go after and try to find the man responsible for almost two years with no success. How does that make the US look to other nations? The oil of Iraq is just a really, really big bonus.
    That's the thing that most people seem to be forgettting about. Oama Bin Laden. Think about it. Between the time this whole Iraqi thing started to the time capture of that al Queda general or something like that, there was no real mention of Bin Laden.
    So we find ourselves asking, what is this war going to accomplish? I don't think it'll end the way we all hope. I think in the end, this is going to drive many nations apart. Everyone has a different idea of how this whole thing should have been handled, but no one wants to listen to each other. And the UN? The problem with the UN is that they are a government without a nation. They have no real power, because their power is based upon people doing what they say because they know/think it's the best thing for everyone.
    Do I think that the US shuld be at war now? No. I don't think this is the correct time for a war. If this war had happened end of '01 to early '02, and we were going after the people responsible for 9.11, I would have a much different view on this all. But it just seems like we are graping for staws, if you will. But, since we are at war, and troops are in Iraq, I wish them all good luck and to be safe.
  22. Mara-hari Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2002
    star 1
    Mrs. '66 and Lando, you guys hit the nail right on the head, and because of everything the two of you took the time to type on here, it's saving me the time I would take typing it again. In saying that, I'll keep this short. ;)

    I will say that regardless of how you feel about this war and the people orchestrating it (and I, for one, am 100% in favor of taking this man out), the people in this country should back our troops completely. Two of my own brothers are in the military, willing to fight to keep the freedoms the left-wing, emotion-driven liberals have to protest. Our service men/women are leaving their families and risking their lives to do their jobs. I, for one, am also ashamed of what went on in Pittsburgh during that protest. People need to wake up and smell the twin trade towers burning.
  23. RebelDawn Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2002
    star 4
    Hear, Hear! Lando and Mrs. 66. And I agree with Mara. Now I don't have to type it all out ;).

    I support our president, our country, our troops and the reasons we are in Iraq. Saddam is evil, as are his sons and we are there sticking up for the Iraqi ppl who don't have the freedom to express their opinions such as we do.

  24. Fluke_Groundrunner Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2001
    star 4
    I'm just curious, do those of you who support the decision (not the troops but the DECISION) to go into Iraq aso support doing the same in other contries? If not then what makes Iraq a unique case?
  25. corran_16201 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 3
    Hmmm depends on the situation. I can't justify invading Great Britian or Canada (UM is Canada 100% independant from GB?) over having WMD. Iraqi had the chance to disarm and thought it'd be more fun to ignore it. They've had over a decade to disamr and done nothing and don't say they were trying it took less time for a country the size of Germany to disarm after WWI. Now throw a mad tyrannical dictator into the mix and yeah its a situation that needs takne care of we tried peacefully and it failed so now we go to the last resort. The only country off the top of my head I could see as being justified right now is North Korea since they are threatening us with Nukes and seem to think they could beat us.
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