Amph It's a City, Not a Yo-Yo: Stargate Atlantis (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Community' started by The2ndQuest, Jan 10, 2006.

  1. Aragorn327 Manager Emeritus

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    I think we can retcon it as being named for General Hammond. Ship won't have General in the name, but Carter can have said mostly what she said.
  2. Jedi_Reject_Jesse Force Ghost

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    Aug 26, 2004
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    Have we seen the universe from Vegas before in any episode?
  3. Mustafar_66 Force Ghost

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    I thought that Vegas' Rodney was "Rod" from 'McKay and Mrs Miller'. His saying he met an alternate version of John and how different he was clued me in. Although, that being said, he also says to Sheppard in 'McKay and Mrs Miller' that the Shepard he knew was uptight.
  4. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Vegas was quite good- it had a few comical moments in terms of the CSI conventions it utilzied/parodied (my favorite being the use of contemporary music- especially the use of Marilyn manson music for the scene with the Wraith, given how people have compared their look to Manson since the show began), but was also very effective dramatically. It's a massive shame we won't get to revisit this universe again.

    They even got to squeeze in an SGA-standard dogfight in- of course the first thing that crossd my geek-detailed-mind was "why are the drones firing from the western USA? and not antarctica?" and they go ahead and address that a couple scenes later.

    EDIT- And, of course, it's not until several viewings later that I realize those first few space battle shots are actually 1st person POV shots from inside the Dart. :oops:
  5. Kimball_Kinnison Chosen One

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    It couldn't have been "Rod" from that episode, because he said that the Sheppard from his universe was part of the expedition, and very active in the Mensa club.

    Off the top of my head, we haven't met any other alternate McKays, have we?

    Kimball Kinnison
  6. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    I don't think so- but then this could be an alternate version of Rod, who could have met, say, the Shep from the Daedalus Variations universe. for example.
  7. FamousAmos VIP

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    Speaking of alternate universes with relation to "Vegas", how exactly did the John Sheppard(and presumably the rest of the Atlantis team) from our universe help the team from that AU destroy a hive a few months before the episode was set? McKay mentions that briefly when he tells Shepard about the other Shepard that he knew, and from what I could tell it was implied that this was our team at the end of the episode when they explained how the AU(s) that they'd been in contact with were the ones that were most likely to have the signal make it to the Pegasus Wraith successfully(and we know that this is referring to our universe b/c of EATG from what I know). I realize that's convoluted, but does anybody know? Am I just confused, or did they just happen to glance over that part?
  8. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    I'll have to listen for that again.
  9. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Well, the finale was pretty good- though not the best episode they've done. It suffers from "SG-1 Season 8 Syndrome" where they try to fit a bit too much into a single episode instead of breaking it up into 2 episodes, ala Full Alert or Reckoning, part 1. Things like the Wormhole Drive were glossed over and end up eating up time that could ahve been better spent elaborating on the Earth defense (Earth seemed to get crippled a bit too easy- sure, no chair (why didn't they use it against the darts?), but we would've used other defenses in that case.

    And where were our allies? Surely the Jaffa would have beenw illing to contribute a couple motherships or at least a squadron of alkesh to Earth's defense on short notice after the Apollo and Sun Tzu were defeated.

    Because of the squeezeed nature of the content, things like the "Apollo 13 blackout" moment didn't have the impact they could have.

    However, what was in there was mostly excellent for an action-packed conclusion. The Super-Hive was dangerous looking, it's battle with Atlantis was gorgeous. They thankfully did not destroy the Daedalus as I had feared. The brief character moments were pretty solid- such as the Woolsey/Ronon/Teyla scene or the superb Todd/Shep scenes (the "spite" line made me laugh loudly, soon joined in by Todd himself :D ).

    Did Todd's makeup look odd this episode though?

    Also, disspaointed there wasn't some "Scifi would thank to thank SGA and it's fans for 5 great years" like they did with SG-1 (and, to cut off Marine's likely quip here, my inference would be they would say "10" for SG-1 :p ).

    Very brief SGU teaser at the end, though.

    The Oddysey was said to be on a top secret mission that not even the Daedalus commander knew about- wonder if that's SGU, SG-1 #3 or SGA #1 related?

    EDIT- After further viewing and reflection, I think it's obvious what happened here: this was suppsoed to be a 2-parter cliffhanger, but they only had enough time after the cancelation notice to squish it into one episode. It would expalin all the rushed stuff like the stupid wormhole drive.

    It's funny...I liked Unending as a finale, given what function it had to serve as a character-but-not-story-conclusion, but I know other people didn't care for it as much. Enemy at the Gate I found to be more satisfying than Unending, yet there are things like the Wormhole drive that irritate me like certain aspects of Unending irritated others. Strange.

    I wonder if all Stargate shows are fated to never get a proper finale episode?
  10. FamousAmos VIP

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    I think you may be right about Stargate finales, Quest :p The episode had great action sequences and was a decently satisfying sendoff(more than Unending was IMO), but I had some pretty big issues with it. Firstly, there was nothing about the mission to the 'Vegas' universe, so I guess we can only assume that the team that McKay was referring to there wasn't our team(although that still leaves me confused about the exchange at the end of the episode). But that's not a big issue with regards to Enemy at the Gate. The issue with the chair/Area 51 really bugs me. 1) Why would they have moved the chair from Antartica? I find it hard to believe that the Russians or the Chinese or whoever(who objected to everything in SG-1) wouldn't have pitched a fit about that, or that Atlantis wouldn't have known it had been moved. 2) Why didn't they just use the chair to fire drones at the darts and/or the hive? I get that the writers wanted to destroy the chair to create some tension as to whether Earth would survive or not and to let Atlantis save the day, but couldn't they have done that just as easily by having the chair fire drones and have them be ineffective against the hive? Atlantis' drones didn't really do any damage to the hive, after all. If they'd done something like that instead, they could have avoided destroying the chair, which bothers me.

    Another thing that I didn't like was the Ronon dying/not dying thing. I would have been alright if they'd decided to kill him off, but it was kinda obvious it wouldn't last due to the way it was done. Speaking of which, did anybody else find it odd that he got stabbed once and bled out in about 5 seconds? Considering the kind of punishment we've seen Ronon take throughout the series, I thought that was kinda weak, although I guess they were strapped for time. The bigger thing to me was that the Wraith brought him back to life - I mean, we've seen the Wraith give back life to people who weren't dead before(Sheppard and Larrin both), but I wasn't under the impression the Wraith could give life back to people who were already dead. I would have loved to have seen that explained a little better, but there wasn't time for that, I guess.

    The wormhole drive thing was pretty odd and definitely needed some more screentime dedicated to explaining/showing it. Seeing it activate would have been very cool, to say the least. Also, I hope that they use the hive exploding/Atlantis landing on the Pacific Ocean to segway into a story about the Stargate being revealed to Earth, because I would not believe that they could keep that under wraps. I mean, there's only so far they can stretch the cover up angle before it just isn't feasible any more(although I personally thought that moment passed after 'Lost City' tbh).

    I would have liked to have had at least some explanation for where SG-1 was and why they weren't helping defend Earth, although I assume they were offworld when all of this went down. Overall the episode was good, very action-oriented and entertaining, and while it had its flaws I think it was a serviceable finale for Atlantis.

    I am going to miss seeing McKay on a weekly basis, though.
  11. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    It's not so much the "not showing it" thing that bugs me about the Wormhole Drive thing but rather- well, somehow Mckay and Zelenka were able to rig some radical new technology in wormhole technology, without testing it, which the ancients couldn't do? If they could pull off instananeous transportation like that, and could manufacturer whatever ZPMs they needed, wouldn't they have used that in the war with the Wraith to crush them?

    And, if that works, it sorta reduces the need for hyperspace and stargates all together. Granted, it's limited by power needs, but still.


    You know, i rewatched the episode and I couldn't find the reference you're referring to. I'm assuming you're talking about the chat between Mckay and Shep just before Shep leaves the "FBI-SGC". In that exchange, Rodney reflects about meeting the alternate version of Shep, and how he was Atlantis team leader, etc, and "had saved the world" several times- but referring to that Shep's world, not the Vegasverse.
  12. Jedimarine Force Ghost

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    Feb 13, 2001
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    First Off...

    [face_laugh][face_laugh][face_laugh][face_laugh]


    Anyway...


    I think we have the solution...seems almost patent perfect.

    I don't know if it's "movie" related...but it certainly provides a comfortable explanation for the "no-show".

    And honestly...I've got to say that's a good thing...both "in universe" for the fact that SG-1 does not have to be the only heroes...and "out of universe" for the leads on this show to go out as the top dogs, and not bow in awe to the parent cast. besides, you bring in Browder to close Atlantis...people start talking about the Ted McGinley curse with Browder.[face_laugh]
  13. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Yeah, for all it's flaws, at least they didn't "Enterprise" the finale by making it about SG-1.

    Although if SG-1#3 is the reason SG-1 wasn't around- does that mean Carter isn't in SG-1#3?


    Also, one other thing- if the chair was destroyed at Area 51, doesn't that mean most, if not all, of the rest of the stuff there was too? They kinda wiped away most of the advanced tech SG-1 has gatheed over the last decade in one shot.
  14. FamousAmos VIP

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    Feb 9, 2003
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    The part that I was talking to in relation to our normal universe was at the end of the episode when McKay and Woolsey were talking about how the signal wouldn't have made it to Pegasus in their reality but would have in others. During that part I thought I understood them to say that it would be more likely to reach Pegasus in realities they'd had contact before(which I took to be an EATG segway), but I might have been mistaken on that. I'll have to rewatch and see if I was just confused or not.


    That's a good question. It looked to me like the darts only kamikazed the specific building that had the chair, but who knows how much of the research/technology was lost.
  15. Dingo Force Ghost

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    Apr 23, 2001
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    There's nothing to say that it destroyed absolutely everything at Area 51. It can easily bewirked around that it did irreparable damage to the sections that the chair was in and its immediate surrounds but only light damage to other parts of the base.
  16. Jedimarine Force Ghost

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    Feb 13, 2001
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    As long as the underground hangers are ok. ;)

    Besides, I think a great deal of the "advanced tech" had been shared with the Alpha Site anyway.

    Sweet, Sweet Redundancy!
  17. goraq Jedi Youngling

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    Is there such thing as a happy Wraith?

    Or they spend their whole angry and depressed.
  18. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Todd seems to have the ocassion bouts of a cheerful mood ;)
  19. goraq Jedi Youngling

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    Could a wraith say:

    I had a wreally happy life?


    Or its just shortime thing?
  20. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    "...for breakfast." ;)
  21. goraq Jedi Youngling

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    It could been a nice ep.

    Shepard and crew meeting an unususaly happy Wraith.:oops::oops:
  22. Kimball_Kinnison Chosen One

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    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    No, no, no. You are messing up your Pak'mara humor.

    The proper ending isn't "for breakfast". It's "properly cooked".

    And I thought you were a fan of B5. Tsk, tsk. :p

    Kimball Kinnison
  23. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Well, I've always found Pak'ma'ra and Minbari humor a bit tricky. More of a Rebo and Zooty fan... ;)


    But the Wraith turns out to be Lucius, and the episode would be called "Indigestible" [face_laugh]



    In other news, looks like the SGA finale took in 2 million+ viewers live/same day with a 1.5 rating, which tied the season-high. Factoring in time-shifted viewers, SGA averaged an 1.6 this season.

    Gateworld Article: What was SGA Cancelled?

    There is a bit of debate on just why the show was ended when it was. MGM and SCI FI Channel jointly announced in late August that the current fifth season would be Atlantis?s last, as the show moved to the world of TV and DVD movies. Some 48 hours later, they also announced that a new series, Stargate Universe, would premiere this summer.

    Low Ratings?
    The debate over the show?s cancellation has to do with how great the ratings were a factor. The show?s Nielsen numbers have fallen dramatically over the last five years. In Season One ratings were well over the 2.0 mark; today ratings of 1.2 (Live + Same Day) are typical. Like the rest of television, much of this is attributable to the rise of TiVo and other digital video recorders. More people are ?time-shifting? their television viewing, and the industry is still struggling to properly measure the viewers of a television show (and its commercials, which pay the bills).

    Though the raw ratings numbers are down, viewership for Atlantis has been inching upward for the past couple of years. When DVR-delayed viewers are accounted for (though they may be skipping past commercials), Atlantis hasn?t lost all that much of its U.S. audience.

    DVD Movies? Or Stargate Universe?
    Instead of ratings, many fans point to the fact that the studio and network are replacing the show with the third series, Stargate Universe. Was one cancelled for the other (since the producers don?t want to do two series simultaneously again, as well as SG-1 movies)?

    According to series co-creator Brad Wright, the matter seems to be more complex than that. The producers, MGM (the studio that owns the franchise), and SCI FI executives sat down in the summer of 2008 to strategize what they felt is in the best interests of the entire franchise over the long term. Add to this mix the typical life cycle for a television show and the importance of full-length movies to the show?s creators, and a picture begins to emerge: In order to make Atlantis DVD movies successful (among an audience much broader than the fan base), they should be made before general interest in Atlantis has waned. If the TV show runs long enough to be cancelled due to low viewership, in other words, the studio won?t be eager to pour millions of dollars into making a Stargate Atlantis movie.

    At the same time, Universe was in development and had been pitched to the network the previous fall (and received well). Launching a new series always draws new attention to a network and a franchise, and plans are to make the third series a bit different from its predecessors. (More on that later.)

    According to Wright, the three parties mutually decided to end Atlantis and make movies, and then launch Stargate Universe. This would allow the SG-1, Atlantis, and Universe ?legs? of the franchise to continue to run together, hopefully far into the future.

    Make of all that what you will. The short of it is that Stargate Atlantis was not cancelled due to low ratings ? though as Wright recently hinted, significantly higher ratings would certainly have changed the discussion. Rather, when a studio like MGM has found such success in the DVD market (especially with last year?s SG-1 releases, The Ark of Truth and Continuum), the nature of what ?cancellation? means has changed. With DVD movies now a major part of this franchise, Atlantis has in some ways been a ?victim? of Stargate?s success.
    [/colo
  24. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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  25. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Atlantis movie title revealed!

    "Stargate: Extinction"

    Seems they're keeping the "AOT" & "C" naming pattern of forgoing the "SG-1" or "Atlantis" moniker.