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Amph It's A Kind Of Magic... Highlander (The Remake Thread)

Discussion in 'Community' started by dp4m, Jun 17, 2013.

  1. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    The origins of when the earliest Immortals first learned of the Game, the Gathering and the Prize was never detailed during the course of the series, nor the books and comics. That was going to be the subject of "The Source", but the whole thing fell apart around 2005. What was known was that it was something that was undeniable and unavoidable. Ramirez had an inkling of what the results could be if someone like the Kurgan was the last, which is part of the reason he sought out Connor. And in turn, it is why Immortals trained other Immortals, rather than just always taking heads of the newbies due to the lack of experience and knowledge of their true potential like the Kurgan attempted with Connor.

    The connection to lifeforms was only present in the first film, as the sequels and series down played it.

    That's a common belief among the fan base as well. I tend to think though that it's more along the lines that if the Immortal is really evil, they will retain their Immortality and use their telepahtic and empathic abilities to their advantage in ruling. Good Immortals would become mortal, but use their new gifts to benefit mankind. Much like we see Connor do in the second film.
     
  2. Saintheart

    Saintheart Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2000
    This. Also consider what Connor is screaming as he is given the Prize: "The Quickening overpowers me! I know! I know everything! I am everything!" And then you've got the 80s special effects (which, to me, are still haunting even for their arguable cheesiness: energy taking visible form while it bites Connor in half.)

    It constantly amazes me how that end could have been completely cheesy, and yet the whole sequence just works. Even with visible fishing lines to levitate Macleod, even with painted-on special effects, even with Connor literally shouting exposition, it still is enough to make you shiver and fistpump at the same time. I can only think it's because of the sound effects - they make that sequence.
     
  3. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Originally, the idea was that when Connor is speaking, you hear the voices of the other deceased Immortals speaking. Hearing Ramirez, Kurgan, Kastagir, Fasil and Yong Dol Kim speak each line that Connor says.
     
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  4. Rogue_Ten

    Rogue_Ten Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2002
    but i thought THERE CAN ONLY BE OOONNNNNNEEEEEE
     
  5. Darth_Invidious

    Darth_Invidious Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 21, 1999
    Who's Yong Dol Kim?
     
  6. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001

    One of the pilots of the Asiana flight...



    ... too soon?
     
  7. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001

    In the first film, there was a scene cut out where Kurgan kills an Immortal named Yong Dol Kim, which takes place after Brenda looks at the file Moran has on Russell Nash and sees that the photo looks like Connor. Kim is discovered by the Kurgan at his job as a security guard and they fight for a bit, before Kim stops fighting and tosses down his sword. He tells the Kurgan that he's tired of the fighting and wants to die, which surprises him, but the Kurgan complies. After that scene, it cuts to when Connor is sharpening his sword while looking at Brenda's book. This was one of many scenes cut from the film and were subsequently destroyed in a fire, about two years later. Only still photos and a copy of the screenplay are all that exists. The pics can be found on the 1996 laserdisc of the 10th anniversary director's cut of the first film, as well as the card game series that came out in in the mid 90's for the series, with expansion pieces featuring the first film.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    This scene in particular forms the basis for the concept of Immortals growing tired of their Immortality and fighting in the Game, which was used in the series and the last two films.
     
  8. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    I always loved the original as pure 80's cheese with great lines and fight scenes. I hear the sequels are generally terrible, but how was Endgame? The one that came out in 2000? Apparently that one is supposed to be halfway decent.
     
  9. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001

    No.

    There are, maybe, two good scenes. Including the one(s) with Methos, which is an auto-win.
     
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  10. JoinTheSchwarz

    JoinTheSchwarz JC Head Admin & Community Manager star 9 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2002
    I had Endgame spoiled for me, and I automatically lost any interest I could have on it. To this day I refuse to watch it or The Source.
     
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  11. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001

    I will say, as crappy as the film was -- the relationship with Duncan/Connor is really, really good. The individuals scenes with them don't really save it (save one), but as a whole their personal relationship (even if Connor is a jackalope throughout the modern portions of the film) is one of the better things about the film.
     
  12. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001

    Here's my take on the sequels.

    -"The Quickening" has some positives and negatives regarding it. The positives is that it features the return of Ramirez, which is nice having more of Connery. Michael Ironside is adequate as General Katana, the main Immortal villain. The character is largely written different from the Kurgan, except for when he's in the present and then he sometimes acts like the Kurgan did after he killed Kastagir. One of the biggest pluses is that there's a story arc wrapped around the central conflict between Connor and Katana, which adds to the story without it being solely about the Game and it builds off of what the Prize was all about in the first film. The negatives of the film center around the attempts to explain existence of more Immortals, in order to have a threat to Connor and that the character of Louise Marcus is pretty much pointless after the first half hour of the film. Not to mention that parts of the film were cut due to the escalating budget, a result of the troubled economy in Argentina at the time.

    -"The Final Dimension" does a better job at explaining the presence of the Immortal threats in the film and returns to the roots of the original film. But the weaknesses come in that much of the first film was replicated in this film. This was due to the director being allowed carte blanche over the style of the film, as Panzer and Davis were concentrating on the series and the Director's Cut of the second film. Though the film does have a slick look to it and it does expand upon Connor's life beyond the 16th century and the 20th century. It also introduced the song "Bonny Portmore" into the franchise, which became a reoccurring theme in the show and the fourth film.

    -"Endgame" is, out of the four sequels, the best one. I know that's a controversial statement, but it is one I stand by. The reason for this is that the story was written in the style of the series, which had managed to balance out the Game with the morality play format, that was a key component to the show's success. In this instance, the main threat has an actual reason for wanting to kill the MacLeods outside of the Game. The film's story deals with what it means to be an Immortal and that there are consequences for actions taken, which was first used in the second film, but here it is grounded in a more realistic setting. The main drawback of the film was the editing. There were too many cooks in one kitchen on this film and it shows. This resulted in the theatrical release being 88 minutes and you can tell that some key scenes were cut. The Producer's Cut restores twelve minutes of material which helps, but the quick cuts from the editing department still stick out at times. The Region One DVD contains a bonus disc which presents an earlier cut of the film, with additional material not found in the finished version, as well as a different editing style and a different order of events. If you are capable of doing so, I would suggest getting this DVD and watching both cuts. There have been attempts to make a hybrid cut of the film, with varying degrees of success. If I ever get around to it, I plan to do my own that would become the master cut.

    -"The Source" is one film in the series that I cannot defend, as it is simply bad. The main problem here is that there's almost no story to the film, which is sad because the earlier drafts did actually have a storyline. By the time Brett Leonard came on board as the director, the screenplay that was locked in was a mess of ideas, but nothing to really ground it as a story. David Abramowitz, who was the head writer of the series, is given credit but it is a false credit as his screenplay was not used, due to the other one being locked in. A few pieces of dialogue from his draft made it in, but even then, it's not enough to really save this film. And unlike the other films where there was additional material available to create a different cut of the film, "The Source" is pretty much what there is. Both the Russian cut of the film, which was released first and the final version which is the one that is available in the US, don't really add, so much as subtract.
     
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  13. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    The problem with the Endgame special editions is they generally have the "Kate lives" ending which is... too stupid to really even entertain.
     
  14. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Since around April of 1998, the character was always meant to live. The manner in which she "disappeared" was different, but the end result was still the same. Both times she was supposed to be killed by Kell, but he opted not to. It was only cut in the theatrical release because of the running time.
     
  15. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Isn't it explained in the second movie that they're actually aliens?
     
  16. Juliet316

    Juliet316 JCC Game Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2005
    The Source killed Joe Dawson. Can't really forgive that one.
     
  17. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001

    Yes, that was the explanation that Bill Panzer came up with to explain why there were more Immortals. This was later changed for the "Renegade Version" which now depicted Immortals as coming from a society similar to the concept of Atlantis. From before it was lost. Here, the idea is that the society was from before modern man and among their wonders was the ability to traverse through time. The problem with the former was a lot of the details never made it into the film, because whole pages were being ripped out due to the economic issues that Argentina was going through at the time. At the start of filming, a steak dinner cost the equivalent of about seven dollars. By the time filming had ended, that same meal that's made the same way and bought at the same place, would cost about forty five dollars. So excessive and/or unnecessary scenes wound up not being filmed. Or were just left on the cutting room floor, due to those scenes needing some type of visual effect in it.

    "The Source" was intended to create a more mystical origin, but those details never made it into the shooting script. And I use that term loosely.

    True. But there's two trains of thought on that one.

    1. It did set up the conflict between Duncan and the Guardian, where the Guardian actually taunts him over the fact that he killed Joe, in an effort to get Duncan to do what he normally would do and take his revenge. But Duncan realizes that this is a trap and the solution to defeating the Guardian, which is to go against their natural instincts to take the head of their Immortal opponent. This is more evident in the first release of the film. Most of this was cut from the second release, which is the version most people are familiar with.

    2. The fifth film is considered not in continuity. At the "Highlander" convention in 2008, I think it was, David Abramowitz wrote a small little piece with Adrian Paul and Elizabeth Gracen reprising their roles and "The Source" was said to have been a bad dream Duncan had. Later, a webisode video was made with Jim Byrnes, Peter Wingfield and Elizabeth Gracen called "Reunion", which was also written by Abramowitz. That one featured Joe as being alive and Duncan married to a different woman.
     
  18. Krusty the Clone

    Krusty the Clone Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Aug 13, 2013
  19. Saintheart

    Saintheart Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2000
    This one must've slipped under the radar over Halloween, but it looks like they've got the remake out of Development Hell. Production scheduled for 2014, so you'd assume a release in late 2015, 2016 maybe? Sounds like they're sticking pretty close to the original story, too. On the other hand, they've got a newcomer director in for it, even if he's been around a while. This could be epic or epically bad.
     
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  20. Juliet316

    Juliet316 JCC Game Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Anybody placing any bets on them putting the movie in the 2015 'bloodbath' summer movie season?
     
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  21. Saintheart

    Saintheart Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2000
    I'd say it depends on when in 2014 production's scheduled. If it's for late 2014 you'd think they'd be pushing pretty hard to edit, score, and get it into theatres for June/July 2015.
     
  22. Aegon Starcaster

    Aegon Starcaster Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 27, 2013
    If this one is bad, I give up, for good this time.

    I have to wonder about doing a remake. It seems like an alright idea, until we consider that, if the movie is good, and successful, they're going to want to make sequels,
    which could lead them right back into the cinematic garbage shoot they've spent the last 20 years crawling out of. I am excited to see who will be playing the part of the Victor Kruger though :D
     
  23. Juke Skywalker

    Juke Skywalker Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 27, 2004
    &


    The relentless competition that Summer leads me to believe this will be more of an August/September release—at best. I know they have their hopes pinned on this turning into a successful franchise, but for all of its enduring cult appeal, none of the Highlander films have ever been a big box office hit. Not even the original. 4 or 5 films, a successful TV series, a spin-off of that series. Heck, even an animated movie and series if I remember correctly. It's been more prolific and enduring than many more financially successful franchises that's for sure. There's definitely something there that you can't measure purely in dollars and cents. But you look at something like the RoboCop re-make/re-boot, which was pushed back and is now being dumped into the February graveyard, and you have to think that if it can't cut it as a Summer release, what chance does Highlander have? Maybe if they get someone the public likes as the lead, a Ewan McGregor or Gerard Butler, and perhaps Vin Diesel to play The Kurgan (If that's the route they go) then maybe it could lift its profile enough to appeal beyond its fanbase.

    I'm certainly no movie guru so take all of my babbling here with a huge grain of salt. And I really want to see this re-make/re-boot happen, I just wish I had more confidence in its chances of being a hit than I do.
     
  24. Aegon Starcaster

    Aegon Starcaster Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 27, 2013
    You bring up good points. You don't have to be a movie guru to know the Highlander film franchise has been nothing, if not wishy washy. Even the tv series failed to get to the point.
    My overall opinion of Highlander is, that the creators really don't know what story to tell, because they really don't know what it's all about. Maybe they have a better grasp on things now,
    but they're really gonna have to prove it.
     
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  25. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian New Films Thread Reaper and Rumor Naysayer star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    If they're foolish enough to try and release the movie during The Year Disney Makes All The Money, they may try for March/April instead of August/September. IIRC, that's what the Mummy and the Matrix did in '99 to give TPM a wide berth, and that worked out well enough for them financially.