Amph It's A Kind Of Magic... Highlander (The Remake Thread)

Discussion in 'Community' started by dp4m, Jun 17, 2013.

  1. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

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    Yet both keep their swords hidden instead of out in the open. They were both prepared when they entered the garage.

    Yet we don't see anyone in the garage.

    Not if he didn't want to try to talk to him about the Kurgan. Or about the Gathering.

    Connor hides his sword because he hears people yelling and the police sirens. When Kurgan leaves, the cops aren't there.

    That isn't throwing out half the film. The events of the film happen, but the motivations and the end result are different.


    Not really. Panzer, Davis and Abramowitz choose to connect the first film to the series, to appease the fans and to flesh things out. The animated series was aimed at a younger audience. They weren't directly involved in that show.

    It was both. They changed the context within the series universe, but altered the actions on screen to coincide with later fiction. "The Coldest War" begins a year later, with Connor and Brenda in London. Both aware that he is still Immortal and that he isn't as active as he had been the previous few years.

    There was no desire to keep up with them when it came to the fifth film. I concur that the effects were pretty bad on the fifth film and is in fact, why some of it was changed between when the first DVD release on Russia came out to the final version that was seen on Sci-Fi before going to DVD. There was only a desire to tell its own story.

    They weren't. It just turned out that way. The first script was pretty bad, especially when it came to Duncan's characterization. The second script was an improvement. Then came the Peter Briggs drafts which were good, but deemed too expensive for what Dimension was going to fund at the time. Dimension was looking to go direct to DVD at that point. Then the fourth script came and went, by that point the production shifted from Dimension. The fifth script is unknown at this point. This was written by the winners of "Project Greenlight". The sixth script was next and seemed to be fairly passable. There was a conclusion and an open door for more. Then there was the Abramowitz draft which was to fix the problems and make a passable film, but it wasn't used and what was used was a mishmash of ideas. The Guardian's speed run was Leonard's idea and wasn't in the previous drafts. There was no final fight mapped out which was done pretty much on the day of filming. They were trying to do at least four months in six weeks.

    Except Connor goes after Katana to kill him in the dome fight, which wasn't self defense. Same with the final fight.
  2. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    I think it can be safely agreed that in order to forestall most of these issues the remake is going to have to set itself up for sequels. Let's face it, the original was built off a first-timer script that was really, really unlikely to be meant as a continuing franchise as such - the whole premise of the story is that the Gathering has begun, Connor explicitly wins the Prize, and he describes what it is to us at the end of the film. Indeed the mystery of what the Prize actually constitutes is a big part of what keeps us watching the movie - and it's paid off with a beautiful irony that it is basically mortality and the ability to understand all living things; enlightenment, if you will.

    I was reading a recent article where it was said that Hollywood in general is looking desperately for franchises, for sequels in effect. If so I'd guess that's a big part of the impetus for this film. But this is similarly going to be a very, very hard movie to sell to audiences without giving them the sense they're being bait-and-switched. If the remake is going to be the first of God knows how many movies, then if they stick to the original premise there is not a chance in Hell we would see the Prize as imagined in the first film awarded to Macleod at the end of the movie. We may not even see the Gathering as such commence. The problem is, in my opinion, that if you suck most of those big themes and premises out of the story, putting nothing as substantial or compelling in their place, then you also kill a lot of what I think many of us unconsciously watch the first movie for. I think many of us watch it as much for the promise of the resolution of questions like "Who will win the Prize?" and "Who will go into the final battle for the Prize?" as we do the question "I wonder what Roxanne Hart's breasts are going to look like when we get to the sex scene?"

    Put it this way, if you want to see what a "first film in a franchise" version of Highlander would look like, it's simple. You just take the first movie and cut out three bits: anything after Connor absorbs the Kurgan's power; Kurgan's line that "Only you and I remain"; and Macleod's screaming during the final Quickening. Take those bits out alone, and you have a movie that actually does not award the Prize and does not suggest Connor and Kurgan are the only ones left. The problem is: what you then have is a much, much less compelling film because the premise of the story has been eliminated. The stakes are woefully less than they were in the first film. It could be any episode of a TV series as it could be a proper, self-contained story. And my deepest fear is that in essence that will be the only substantive change you will see in the remake. Of course, my second-to-deepest fear is that they'll change the franchise so much with ass-pulling stuff like "Oh, there's lots of Prizes awarded over history, this is only the first one", or "Congrats, you took out your first immortal, now here's another bigger and badder one to fight", or "The Gathering actually means you have to fight your way through five hundred of your fellow immortals, not five."
    Last edited by Saintheart, Nov 17, 2013
  3. Aegon Starcaster Jedi Master

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    Jun 27, 2013
    star 2
    The difference is that Fasil had his hand on his weapon the entire time. Connor had to reach inside his trench coat, which was tied at his waist, and draw his sword out.

    And that makes it some secret area, where they are guaranteed privacy? These guys just happen to be psychic enough to know that not one of the 1000s of spectators is going to slip out to their vehicle? It was a public place, famous for drawing massive crowds of people. If immortals had been hunting each other in public places, that saturated with people, for 1000s of years, humanity would have caught onto them decades before.

    So, are you telling me, that the Kurgan is actually worried about getting caught by the cops, when exactly right after he leaves the scene of the crime, he throws an old man out of his own car, and then starts driving down the street with the guy's wife clinging to the hood of the car for dear life? and all this after at least 10 people saw what he looked like?

    Who said anything about half the film? You said no scenes were thrown out. And yet we both know that one scene was.

    You really believe that, had they been forced to throw out a bunch of scenes from the film, like they did with the voice over during the epilogue, that the film still would have been worth using as a backdrop for the series? Perhaps they did what they did in order to appease fans. But it can hardly be measured how much it would appease fans if many of the key moments from that back story are gone, and just don't exist. What would be the point, under those circumstances? Who would be appeased by that? When a situation becomes too confusing to deal with, they have a track record of disregarding what went before, and starting a new. Highlander II has no place in the timeline because of this, but Highlander 3, and all the movies that came after it, does.

    Brenda going to London, and knowing that Connor is immortal, is not the part of the movie that the series threw out. Those two matters are irrelevant to this conversation.

    Don't be fooled, if you heard, or read about, someone making such a statement. Most movies have the desire to tell their own story. Highlander movies are not unique in this. That fact remains, that Highlander was in competition with all the other films that came out at the time. They wanted the option to make more films after that one, and to do so, they had to keep up. That's how the movie making business works, and that has a direct bearing on why their next film was not released in theaters, and why that entire timeline is currently being dropped in favor of a reboot.

    A movie doesn't just turn out that bad. It was terrible from beginning to end. There wasn't any fixing it. They'd have to tell a completely different story, cause this one wasn't working. The Guardian's speed run is only one problem out of dozens. The same thing goes for the final fight. They got what they paid for.

    Everything Connor does in the movie is self defense. Katana didn't come to the present from the past to play pinochle. He sent assassin's to kill Connor, and when they failed, he went to do the job himself, by invading a world where he didn't belong. Katana is the hunter all the way through. Connor may have responded with an offensive strategy, but it doesn't change things as far as who was hunting who.
    Last edited by Aegon Starcaster, Nov 17, 2013
  4. Aegon Starcaster Jedi Master

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    Jun 27, 2013
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    They have an extremely difficult job ahead of them. In taking the prize out of the movie, the original would be a lot less interesting, but I think it would still be a whole lot better than any other others. One of the largest problems with all of the other films, was that the villains were ridiculous, and over the top. Clancy was definitely over the top, but I think it was to an acceptable degree. All the other villains seemed to try to copy him, but out do him at the same time. He was also really convincing with the swordplay. If they can get an actor to play a great bad guy, they'll take a large step in the right direction.

    The script is another concern. As you pointed out, if they're to kick off a series of movies with this next one, they're going to have to replace themes and premises, with compelling new ideas. In other words, this can't afford to be just be another Highlander film. On the one hand, I'm so looking forward to seeing what surprises they will have in store for us, because of course, they must realize all of this stuff if we do <_<
    But on the other hand, I've been disappointed with this franchise over and over again, so I know how easy it would be to mess this movie up at every turn.
  5. Ezio Skywalker Jedi Master

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    Jan 29, 2013
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    I kind of liked Endgame. I mean, it could have been a lot better. But maybe I enjoyed it because I grew up with the TV series.
  6. dp4m Chosen One

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    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9

    Even for those people who liked both the movie and the series (like me) Endgame is still pretty terrible for how it treats Connor's character as well as the nonsensical plot-holes with the villain, especially when you get into some of the alternate endings.
  7. Aegon Starcaster Jedi Master

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    Jun 27, 2013
    star 2
    The biggest problem I had with Endgame was the villain. Bruce Payne is a good actor, but he had such crappy material to work with. He was supposed to be this incredibly formidable warrior, and yet, there seemed to be very little effort put into teaching him to fight with a sword. Instead they used editing to make him seem twice as fast, and skillful as everyone else. Then there's the fact that making an immortal seem super humanly powerful kind of makes the Kurgan seem like a total wuss in comparison. They shouldn't have had to devalue the villains that came before in order to make new villains seem like a real threat.
  8. Ezio Skywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2013
    star 3
    Admittedly, I don't really recall the finer points of Endgame. I just remember Donnie Yen, Adrian Paul, and Methos lol
  9. soitscometothis Force Ghost

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    Jul 11, 2003
    star 5
    ^Not recalling Endgame properly is the best way to enjoy it, imo.
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  10. I Are The Internets Chosen One

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    star 7
    Watching Endgame while intoxicated is fun too, or so I've heard?
  11. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

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    Which doesn't mean that Connor wasn't ready.

    Most of the time, fights did happen but given how swords were used for the longest time, it was probably not uncommon to see a sword fight. Whether it concluded or not, is another matter. Holy ground, large crowds and all. Hell, looking at how the Watchers recruited new members, shows that privacy wasn't completely rare. But what we do know in the first film is that no one identified Connor as the one who killed Fasil, thus making it impossible to arrest him for murder.

    Yep. He was forced to improvise with the car. He had no clue that only Matunas would come forward and give a description. Apparently, not even the husband did.

    You said half the film is tossed out. I said that Connor and Brenda went to Scotland and then on to London. That scene still exists. The conversation doesn't.

    The second film was dropped because it was considered too different from what came before. The third film and the series went back to the design, characterization and tonality of the first film. Lambert was insistent about that when he discussed doing the third film and that carried over to when the series was first proposed at Cannes in 91. As to the other part, the first film was worth keeping because it was the introduction and the genesis for everything. Even with parts retconned out in the series universe, it was still vital to the overall story.

    It is in that the conclusion of the first film lead into the comic story arc.

    In this case, this is true. According to Peter Briggs who worked on the project and received copies of the screenplays, the version that was used in the film was frankensteined together. It read as an incomplete script with a lot of the problems found in the film here. Prior to that, while I haven't read those drafts save for his, from what I understand, they were more complete and more legible. His drafts weren't used by Panzer and Davis because it didn't met their standards, but it was getting good feedback from Dimension. Ideas in the pre-production stage and during filming and post, were the result of terrible choices then.

    In his scripts, he had the makings of a good story.It was just abandoned. Same with the draft of the third film by Brad Miriam which was much more original and better than the final film.

    Payne was actually the only who wasn't trying to be like the Kurgan. No tongue action, no gravely voice, no driving out of control. He did yell at the end, but by and large, he was more of a series villain.

    Ironside did fairly well considering the type of sword he was using. Van Peebles did fairly good in the first fight, but not the second. But then, that was largely done poorly. Payne had fencing training. Solimeno, well, I don't know what weapons training he had.

    Payne was sick in bed for half of the production, so he didn't get much time to work on the fights. And they were still working on the final fight, since they had to change locations and come up with a new fight scene, as the one that was written had to be discarded. It was dependent on the location shoot in Romania and not in England.

    I don't think how Connor treated was that bad, really. They gave an emotional resonance for why he would sacrifice himself.

    That was standard in the series. Kalas and Duncan were even and both considered to be the best among them. Kronos was considered even more because of his age and the number of heads he had taken. And so on.
  12. Aegon Starcaster Jedi Master

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    From what I can tell, Connor, and most immortals in general, not to mention most warriors in general, don't start off by letting their enemy take a free swipe at them. If Connor were the one doing the hunting, he'd have been just as ready to go at it as Fasil was, or even more-so. He obviously wasn't.

    "No one has ever known we were among you..." The first movie still exists outside the watcher files and the series in general, therefore, I'd like to think the prologue is more appropriate to follow. So, it wasn't common to see late 20th century sword fights out in public. I never claimed anyone saw them, I claimed Connor wasn't the type of character to start a fight in an area where thousands of people could see him doing it.

    He wasn't forced to drive the car like a maniac. It was dark outside when he started driving, but the woman was clinging to the hood during sunrise. He wasn't all that concerned about getting caught. Later in the movie, he breaks into a woman's home, kidnaps her, drives the wrong direction on the street, and runs a motorcyclist off the road. All of this, while he quite likely had his sword in the car with him, and all of his crazy driving was totally unnecessary.

    I never said half the film is tossed out. I have only ever said that one scene in question is tossed out. The dialogue is the important part here. Whether they went to Scotland in the series or not, is irrelevant. What does that matter?

    Everything you just said proves my point. When it is too confusing, or too difficult somehow, to use a certain material, they have a track record of throwing the whole thing out.

    Connor told Brenda he was immortal before he defeated the Kurgan, so her still knowing about it is irrelevant. And what does going to London have to do with anything? They were never in London in the film. Unless Connor was the last immortal in the comic story arc, I don't see what relevance it has here.

    This can be said of any script. It's vague, so it doesn't say much. Usually when you can say that about a script, you can also make a point for the reverse, that it carries with it the makings of a bad story. It's what happens in development, when the story reveals itself to be any good or not.

    Ironside didn't do bad, he just wasn't exciting to watch in a sword fight. But neither was Lambert in that movie. Van Peebles is probably the best martial artist of them all, and yet, the way they cut the sword fights just took all the steam out of it. It was just a collection of scenes from different angles that showed them whacking at each other really hard. Solimeno may have been a good martial artist, but the comical effects they involved in almost every scene with him just made a joke out of the most serious moments.

    It's a bad standard for the movie franchise. I can understand doing that for the series, but why should anyone take a current movie seriously, when they know the next one will totally discredit it in order to seem more hardcore?
    Last edited by Aegon Starcaster, Nov 18, 2013
  13. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
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    Not unless he had a different idea at first and then when Fasil swings at him, he decides to abandon it.

    We don't know because we haven't seen any other fights prior to this one. So we don't know where they took place at.

    I never said he was forced to drive like a maniac. That was the result of all the killings starting to have an effect on his mind. I said that he took off because he didn't want the cops on his ass and he later shaves his head, because his face got out there.

    Because that part of the story remains, just that there was a conversation about the Prize is out. That's all.

    It wasn't that it was too confusing or too difficult, but that it was just plain not liked.

    I mean he still has his Immortality intact.

    The relevance is that the comic continued the story of the film, but in the retconned series universe. Where Immortals were still around and Connor was still one.

    In this case, it had the makings of a good story and then was dumped on, because the producers had their own ideas that they preferred. It wasn't the first time they screwed over Briggs. He and his brother wrote the story bible for the series and then were kicked to the curb and not credited with what appeared in the show and part of the third film.

    One is half blind and the other has an unwieldy sword. The fact that Ironside dislocated his jaw is a sign he did something right.

    It was in the second fight, but the first wasn't that bad. The second fight was like they were using baseball bats against each other.

    True. In Briggs script, the character didn't say much until towards the end. He was treated more like the Terminator.

    Kurgan's status wasn't diminished just because Kell and the Guardian were supposed to be tougher. I mean, look at the Terminator. The T-1000 was more advanced than the T-800 and the T-X was more than the T-850.
  14. Aegon Starcaster Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2013
    star 2
    If Connor is hunting Fasil, what idea could he have, other than fighting and killing Fasil?

    We've seen plenty such confrontations since Connor fought Fasil. They customarily don't take place within the vicinity of large crowds, on the grounds of very famous sports arena's during a sold out card.

    You said, "He was forced to improvise with the car." You didn't have to say he was forced to drive like a maniac. He drove that way for at least an hour, but probably longer. If he cared about getting caught, he wouldn't do something that would draw so much needless attention to himself for so long a period of time.

    And Connor's random memories of Ramirez, as Ramirez gives him a last bit of sage advice at the end? Does that remain as well? Kind of a strange moment to start thinking about Ramirez running on the beach for no reason. If I'm sitting on a hill in Scotland with a beautiful woman, I'm not gonna start thinking about my friend who's been dead for 400 years, if I don't have a reason to.

    So, if they wanted, they could have fit Highlander II into the timeline? To do so, Endgame would have been bound to incorporate the energy shield that Connor used to protect the planet from the sun. They would also be bound to carry that ridiculous time travel story with them until someone decides to reboot the whole thing. Connor would also be beyond the reach of death, as we would all know he's alive during 2024. Plenty of their movies are "just plain not liked," but Highlander II is the only one that doesn't count. It would be much too complicated to build anything good from it. It's too convoluted, and far reaching to deal with. In other words, writing a script that includes the events of that movie as a backdrop would b too confusing and difficult to spend millions of dollars on.

    London has nothing to do with the film. Nothing at all. If a comic shows him in London, then that is strictly the comic. He's been to the US, Scotland, Japan, France, and dozens of other places.

    Yes, but saying, "it had the makings of a good story" doesn't say anything. It's vague. All it tells anyone is that the story might not have been bad had they done a million things different.

    :D Yeah, all sword fights should start off with someone dislocating a bone. But i'm sure Ironside wasn't thinking that while they were popping his jaw back into place.

    The first was better. The problem with the first being better, is that you are guaranteed that neither will die when there is 40 minutes worth of movie left. So inherently, it's not supposed to be more exciting.

    That certainly would have helped the movie some. I wanted nothing more than for that guy to shut up as soon as he started talking.

    In Terminator, the situation was just as simple as one machine rendering another machine obsolete. Which is believable, because we know technological advances work that way. Once they established terminators as machines, it's only logical that they would advance like that. Kell and the Guardian both defied the laws of physics according to what is humanly possible in a way that none of their previous material even hinted was possible. Once Duncan killed Kell, they were practically forced to create a character who was even more ridiculously fast, for the next film, in order to make him seem like a threat. They set themselves up for a fall, because eventually people are going to start rolling their eyes at it.
    Last edited by Aegon Starcaster, Nov 19, 2013
  15. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    The foregoing discussion suddenly made me contemplate what a Highlander vs. Terminator comic might look like. Both are functionally immortal if you run the line the Terminator's wired up to Skynet's collective mind. :D
  16. Aegon Starcaster Jedi Master

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    Jun 27, 2013
    star 2
    that could also sort of validate the whole time travel thing in Highlander II <_<
  17. I Are The Internets Chosen One

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    star 7
    What there's time travel in II? Now I have to watch this potential trainwreck!
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  18. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    Geez, IRD, you haven't seen Batman and Robin, and now you're telling me you haven't seen Highlander 2? You really mean to tell us you haven't been through these tests of manhood?
  19. Aegon Starcaster Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2013
    star 2
    I wish I hadn't seen Batman and Robin or Highlander II

    Don't do it. It's not worth it!
  20. I Are The Internets Chosen One

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    star 7
    This reminds me that I need to see Battlefield Earth and Howard the Duck as well!
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  21. Juliet316 Chosen One

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    star 7
    No, no you don't need to see Battlefield Earth. Ever. Your life will be just fine without it.
  22. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Going after Kurgan together.

    Right, but again, that's afterwards. Duncan Ingrid Hansen outside a public venue for a political rally and later on, killed Byron in the arena where the concert was being held at. Carl Robinson killed an Immortal at a baseball stadium and people were nearby.

    We don't know how long he drove that way with the old woman. By the time he did with Brenda, his sanity was pretty much gone.

    The purpose in going there was for Connor to show Brenda Scotland in general and Glencoe in particular. They talked about a lot of things in the original ending and that was cut out in favor of a voice over. The original purpose would remain, but not a conversation about the Prize. As to remembering Ramirez and Heather, they were people who suffered because of the Kurgan. One lost his head, the other was savagely raped. He remembers the good times with them.

    Elements from II were still in play early in the show's run. Such as the idea of Immortals being foundlings, which went back to a scene cut out from the second film where its explained that the ones banished to Earth would be reversed in age and grow up among the mortals as if they were human. After the third film and before the story for the fourth was even remotely locked down, this was apparently dropped. Which then supports why "The Source" was going to be made.

    You're missing my point. The comic takes the story from the film and goes from there.

    That's generally how is with the sequels.

    My point is that he really put an effort into doing the sword fights.

    True, but it also hurt because they ran out of money to finish a key part of the fight. Kane was originally supposed to create two duplicates of himself to fight Connor and Connor uses the fighting with eyes closed to find and strike the fatal blow.

    The only carry over was that the Briggs version of the character had the scars, but they served a purpose in identifying the Stranger, which is what the Guardian was known as. But they were self inflicted.


    Kell wasn't that fast. In fact, speed wasn't really a factor but his intensity and skill were. He was able to inflict injuries, but he was still hurt himself. The Guardian had the speed running going on. The Guardian under Briggs, the only difference was he would heal faster and that if you did kill him, a Dark Quickening would happen and the Immortal would become possessed by him. Thus making it difficult to kill him.

    In 1993-94, Panzer and Davis had secured funds to go back and re-edit the second film. Putting back in scenes that had been cut, as well as finishing up a key scene that they never got to film, as the production was shut down by the bond holder that financed the film initially in 89. Lambert, Ironside and Madsen came back to film what is known as the mountain chase. As part of the re-editing, it was decided to edit out all references to Immortals being from the planet Ziest and replace it with them being time travelers from Earth's distant past. New voice overs would take place during the banishment scene along with those from Ironside and the actors that played Corda and Reno. The rest of the intentions would remain the same, that the Immortals were reborn on Earth would apply to reborn in the more modern times. This was then released in 94 as "The Renegade Version". In the years since then, Panzer and Davis had continued to support that film and it has in the US, become the only version available at retail. The older version is mostly from earlier releases. In international markets, it seems to be a mixture of both versions.
    Last edited by darth-sinister, Nov 20, 2013
  23. Aegon Starcaster Jedi Master

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    Jun 27, 2013
    star 2
    That might be the most unlikely comment I've ever read on a forum. There's no sign that Connor and Fasil are friends, or ever were. It's much more likely that Connor would approach Kastagir with such a proposition long before he does Fasil.

    Before or afterwards hardly makes a difference. Duncan didn't kill Byron in the parking lot. They met back stage, and both agreed to take their fight some place that would insure privacy. You'll recall Byron started the fight by shooting Duncan in the knee with a pistol, and no one heard it go off.

    We know it was pitch black outside when he started driving with the old woman. In the next scene, it's dawn outside, and she's clinging to the hood of the car. It wasn't a five minute drive. As far as his sanity goes, he hadn't changed since the beginning of the film. He was always insane.

    Heather wasn't in any of Connor's memories at the end. Those were Connor's memories of Ramirez, which were there because Ramirez, who was now with Connor, was talking to him. Ramirez's dialogue at the end was not a memory. Without that dialogue, the scene is meaningless. There'd be no reason for him to think about Ramirez at all.

    The fact that the scene was cut from the second film, automatically disqualifies it from being a part of the second film. They didn't have to deal with that theme at all, if they chose not to. It was simply an idea they kept, not a theme that bound them to the second film.

    Does the comic start in Scotland? Or does it start in London?

    I'm not sure why sequels would be singled out from original works here. Someone's opinion that "the script had the makings of a good story" is vague because, 1.) that statement is unclear as to whether the story is good or not, and lacks proof of either or, and 2.) it is nothing more than an opinion that is beyond proving, because, as you've pointed out, the producers changed things in the script, so we'll never get to see how good a story it really was.

    I think he was concentrating his efforts in the wrong place :D That might be why the fighting came off as boring in that film.

    Hard to say if it would have been better one way or another. They couldn't quite bring the excitement into the simpler version, and making the scene more complicated possibly could have made the scene worse.

    It's true that Kell's speed did not appear superhuman, and they did not use effects to illustrate it. However, he was able to inflict damage upon anyone he wanted without having to disarm them, and it was more than just skill and intensity. His enemies would never even see the attacks coming that would get them. Also, you'll notice that when Duncan first fights the Guardian, he is outmatched, but he is still able to keep up much better than anyone else. The reason for much of that is because he killed both Connor and Kell, and was much faster than anyone else.
  24. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Who said anything about being friends?

    No, but someone could have come looking for Byron and wandered in accidentally.

    That doesn't exactly mean it was an hour. We don't know what time it was when the fight took place and we do know that it was filmed in two different locations.

    Not really. He was evil and malicious, but he didn't start loosing it until after Kastagir's death.

    I'm talking about in the revised series continuity with the retcon that not all Immortals were dead. I was mistaken about Heather, though, that is true. But the whole sequence is still about Connor talking about his life to Brenda while in Scotland.

    It was unclear when they discarded the second film all together. All that was clear was up until the latter part of 1995, it seemed likely that the second film was still part of the narrative.

    The comic starts in Russia and then goes to London, but it follows the novelization which referred to going to Scotland and then to London.

    I have a copy of the Briggs drafts, both the original and the revised drafts, but I cannot share them online.

    There's also the fact that the sword master wasn't an expert like Bob Anderson and F. Braun McAsh.

    We've seen Immortals take physical damage and not lose their swords, both in the films and in the series. So that argument doesn't fly. It falls to the script and/or director to decide that. And his enemies not seeing the attacks, what you do you mean?

    True, but as Paul said, when filming the fights, they weren't supposed to be speed up like that. That was only added later on and were only meant for certain parts.
  25. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    But there's a scene supposedly where John Travolta dismembers a cow!