Amph It's always personal: The Acts of Caine thread

Yeah, Heroes Die is, I think, the most flat-out fun and amazing of them. Blade punches a little heavier, but it comes at the cost of being somewhat less pure fun, and without the thrill of discovering Overworld for the first time (though the takeover of the Pit [as I've said] and the opening account of Hari's school days [as you've said and I agree ] are as fun as anything else in the series, hands down).

 

Wrong. CBK was the most fun of all the Caine books. Heroes Die, second. BoT, agreed, lost something by not being as fun, but gained something by being so frigging epic.

 

I don't think you can really say someone's opinion is wrong.

Anyway, I have just finished Heroes Die....great book, I haven't read a book in which the protagonist is such a ****** and the brutal and ruthless villian is so strangely sympathetic. Berne was a complete tool though, and I cheered at his downfall. That end clash in the Arena was epic.

 

Yeah, I love that level of ambiguity. We cheer for Caine . . . but if he weren't the book's protagonist, would we? If Ma'elKoth were the protagonist, would we be rooting for him? It definitely helps that Berne is so thoroughly repulsive (though that scene where he bounces around like a great big kid is fantastic) and Pallas is such a great person. That does help draw the lines a lot more clearly without reducing the ambiguity of Caine's and Ma'elKoth's personalities.

 

Aw, man... we missed Caine's birthday.

 

For some reason I just couldn't get into CBK like I did the other ones. I thought it was real uninteresting. For some reason I didn't like all the intrusions of Earth on overworld (is that the name). I just thought it lost something when all the knights started carrying guns and malee weapons were just ceremonial. I remember reading a little over half of CBK and then putting it down. I'm definately gonna give it another try because I absolutely love the other 2 books, but did anybody feel the way I did even a little bit? What I would like to see is more of Caine in his prime some few years before Heroes Die. Wouldn't that be the best?

 

Yeah, I was slightly disappointed by CBK, too. Because Heroes Die was so great and Blade upped the ante by a thousand and because I waited several years for it, CBK just didn't deliver like I wanted it to. Also, the page count was nothing close to what I expect from a Caine novel. I'll consider the sequel to be the second half.

 

The sequel is definitely the second half, which I think is the main thing that held CBK down a little; it's a Caine book that got split in two, and so we only got the slow-burning first half where everything builds up; the second half, the explosion of action and energy, is coming. As a whole, I think it will work, but with only the first half it doesn't look quite so good, as the buildup-to-payoff ratio is off (the enormous payoffs of the flashback plotline help a lot, though).

 

Having gone through Matt's Acts of Caine series this whole summer, I can say that I truly enjoyed Heroes Die for the fact that it's pure fun to read and Blade of Tyshalle for the amazingly deep philosophical discussions, the character arcs for Caine and Deliann in their search for redemption, and the breathtaking bouts of symbolism that preface and set up every chapter.

I read CBK during one of my vacations, and while I enjoyed it as I read (my favorite line will always be "I will feed you your future!"), I didn't immediately re-read it like I did with the other two. The impact didn't stay with me as long as the previous books, I guess. And I must say that there were parts of Blade where the main characters get taken to such depressing and soul-crushing depths that I really was feeling it for them, but of course, it does make the ending all the more powerful.

 

Great (new) Heroes Die FAQ here. I ended up with about a dozen new favourite Stover quotes.

 

So, I just finished reading Heroes Die for the first time. Now, generally speaking, I found it a good book, though not quite as great as others have indicated. However, I think a large part of this is rooted in the fact that Caine (and most of the cast, for that matter) is a character type to which I'm already fairly accustomed. I've long enjoyed characters that are generally considered to be ambiguous, and actively sought them out, so that aspect of the book wasn't as new and refreshing for me as some might find it.

Rather, I found one of the book's greatest strengths to be those who fill what would be the role of traditional villains, if it could actually be said to have any. It's not all that hard to find yourself cheering for Ma'elKoth, and it's rather difficult not to like someone who enjoys being what he is as much as Berne does (who was my favorite character, by far, incidentally). Toa-Sytell was probably one of the most reasonable people in the whole book. I did wish there were more sections with them in it, as they were the highlight of the story for me.

 

Unlocked.

 

What did you unlock for any special reason?

I just ordered Caine Black Knife last month but Im not going to read until book 4 is out because I hear its a huge cliffhanger(book 3 that is).

 

Sorry, probably should haev put "unlocked upon request" - someone requested that I unlock it.

 

I requested the unlock. Just wanted to point out to any interested that Caine is coming to the world of sequential art. Written by Matt Stover, penciled by TJ Halvorsen (Batman & Robin, Wonder Woman), with all kinds of other cool talent involved in various aspects of the project. Check out http://overworld.tv/ for more info.

 

Oh yeah I heard about this on the Malazan boards the other day. They have some excited people over there.

 

So, I read Heroes Die years ago and was until recently unable to get my hands on Blade of Tyshalle. Amazon was selling it for $100, other places simply didn't have it. What's up with that? Was the book a failure and now out of print or something?

Anyway, my fiancee got me a Nook Color for my birthday and I found the ebook of Blade of Tyshalle on the B&N online store. I'm still in the beginning phases of the novel, having recently finished the prologue section, but so far I am liking it. That prologue section was pretty awesome, imo.


The only problem I'm having, though, is that since it's been so long since I've read Heroes Die, I can't really remember all the details. So Hari is now paralyzed. How did that happen again? Can someone also recap the ending to Heroes Die for me? Thanks.

 

The book has been out of print for years. In the ending of Heroes Die, Caine took Kosall through the guts (while killing Berne, IIRC), severing his spine. He also grabbed Ma'elKoth and took him back to Earth with him, thus giving us Tan'elKoth.

 

BoT is out of print??? Selling for $100??? Damn Im glad I found my copy last night still packed up.

 

Why is it out of print?