It's official: Obi-Wan and Owen Lars are not brothers.

OK, just so we're clear:

Obi-Wan has a brother named Owen. The ROTJ source that says this Owen is THE Owen LARS has now been officially contradicted and rendered false, including all sources based on only this source. There.

As for Mara Jade, well, if you're gonna get peeved about her, what about the other hands, the Inquisitors, Tremayne, the Royal Guards, the Secret Order, Lumiya etc etc. This is is by no means exhaustive and shows that, having extinguished the Jedi and basically being given a galaxy to play in, the Sith stopped being monogamous and became rather promiscious with training evil-doers.

There are so many references to the TWO SITH breeding a bunch of DARK JEDI in the EU that it must be taken as fact.

Adious Amigos

Communista

 

And in the case of George, sometimes the bear gets himself in a twist

 

<Sarcasm>
GREAT! Another one of those on again, off again continuity flubbers!
</Sarcasm>

 

If you look at some of the original story ideas, concepts, screenplays, etc. it is a miracle that anything coherent has come out of Star Wars and that Lucas hasn't contradicted himself more.

Just look at some of the original concepts for Ep. 4: Deak, Luke, Leia, Anakin, Biggs and Windy Starkiller. (Hate that name, glad he didn't use it.) No Force the first time around, just Whills. Jedi Bendu. Tarken as a priest. Tuskens as elite troops of the Empire. The Son of Suns. Transport guilds, power guilds. Looking at all the crazy stuff that went into formulating the final product, I'm surprised Star Wars works as well as it does and doesn't contradict more.

I like Star Wars much better they way that it is... everything that went into making it (and it is still being made) is considerably worse. I don't think the Adventures of Luke Starkiller would have done as well. I enjoy the improved story and continuity.

So if Ben and Owen aren't brothers... well, I never knew they were supposed to be and I like it better that way. A little change isn't going to make me lose sleep. And there's always that 'certain point of view'. I have a close friend I had considered like a brother at various times. It could be similar to that sentiment.

 

...or Obi-Wan gave Luke to his brother Owen, who gave him to Owen Lars. Remember, they only aren't related by blood, they may be related by marriage or adoption. I know, I know, I'm a real stickler for continuity...

TC

 

I just had a thought, what if the connection between Obi-wan and Owen, two men with not a whole lot in common, was Beru ?

Perhaps Beru was Obi's missing sister, or cousin, and they caught up after a war, and sort of adopted each other as their only family, (the rest of the family being, naturally, dead) and because Owen married her, to Obi's point of view that makes him family, and thus he calls him 'brother'.

 

What is wrong with you people? Why can't you aknowledge the simple fact that Star Wars is a work in progress and things are going to be changed? The films themselves were changed, why do you think that no other ideas were altered during the course of the creative process?

Oh, and Mara Jade and any other Dark Sider user isn't part of canon because of the rule of two.

 

Padme Bra,

If you go by only the movies, the "rule of two" has many interpretations.

It could mean that there are only 2 Sith Lords in the entire galaxy, but it could also mean that you always find Sith in pairs of two. You could change Yoda's comment only slightly and it would still be perfectly true. "Always two [Jedi] there are; no more, no less. The master and the padawan." Does that mean that there are only 2 Jedi in the entire galaxy?

The "Rule of Two" that you are referring to (instituted by Darth Bane)was outlined in the comics, a part of the EU last time I checked.

So, do you accept the EU or not? If not, why do you reference it like that? If so, why you reject parts of it but accept others? It is an all-or-nothing deal.

Kimball Kinnison

 

I fully agree with you PadmeBra, except for the last sentence.

I want George to change the EU if it makes the movies better. The EU shouldn't get in his way, and if it does then to hell with it!

There are only two Dark Lords of the Sith, but there can be infinate Dark Jedi.

 

What is wrong with you people? Why can't you aknowledge the simple fact that Star Wars is a work in progress and things are going to be changed? The films themselves were changed, why do you think that no other ideas were altered during the course of the creative process?

Most of us don't like the feeling of something not fitting together with the rest. This normally wouldn't be such a big deal...but if Del Rey ever publishes the novelizations as one large book of all 6 stories, that Owen thing is really going to stick out.

Oh, and Mara Jade and any other Dark Sider user isn't part of canon because of the rule of two.

A good explanation is given right on the last page.

 

>What is wrong with you people?

Bra, I'll admit that we continuists get a bit carried away at times, but my post was intended to be tongue-in-cheek. That was uncalled for.

TC

 

About this "rule of two"... Mara was born around AotC. It's very possible that Palpatine didn't find her until after Ep. 3. Darth Vader wasn't really his apprentice, so Palpatine could have trained her without the "2" rule in the way.

 

I also think i shall start popping veins if the Rule of Two has to be explained one more time in this thread. Please tell me you were kidding with that comment about Mara Jade and Dark Jedi, Padme_Bra, or else there'll be trouble.

For those who cannot be bothered to look in the first 2 pages, and still wants to argue about that Rule of Two thing : I have several words for you.

<takes deep breath>

SITH DO NOT EQUAL DARK JEDI

RULE OF TWO IS ABOUT SITH

<starts hyperventilating>



Edit : i would also like people to note that Mara Jade is not a Sith.

 

DaJames well going by the movies there is no such thing as a darkjedi. Everybody who has turned to the darkside in the movies has become a sith. I think it may require special training to use the darkside properly an that is why a jedi who leaves the order will not be able to use the darkside.

 

There's a dark jedi in Lucas's own Ewoks: The battle for endor movie.

[image=http://www.x-entertainment.com/lucasfan/swtv/bfe10.jpg] [image=http://www.x-entertainment.com/lucasfan/ewdr/ewokbfe/bfe41.JPG]

Charal, is Neither a sith, nor a light jedi, but an evil force user, using dark side powers. The story takes place a little before ROTJ. So don't give me BS, by saying that lucas hasn't created any darksiders who aren't sith. Because you would flat out be lieing.

 

>So don't give me BS, by saying that lucas hasn't created any >darksiders who aren't sith. Because you would flat out be lieing.

For heavens sake, Valiento, he wouldn't be lying, just mistaken.

TC

 

He's using movie purist logic, he's trying to invalidate the EU. So I'm correcting him by showing lucas invented the idea to begin with, lucas's stories in the movies are always relevent.

 

About this "rule of two"... Mara was born around AotC. It's very possible that Palpatine didn't find her until after Ep. 3. Darth Vader wasn't really his apprentice, so Palpatine could have trained her without the "2" rule in the way.

Mara is around the same age as Luke, and she was taken from her parents at such a young age that she can't even remember details about her previous life. So it would have to be around Episode III, yes.

Secondly, Darth Vader is most certainly Palpatine's apprentice. ?

Thirdly, the rule of 2 doesn't even matter, because it only applies to Sith. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to go watch the movie again.

"There's no doubt the mysterious warrior was a Sith."

"Hmm. Always two there are. Master, and apprentice."

DaJames well going by the movies there is no such thing as a darkjedi.

Where does it say that?

Everybody who has turned to the darkside in the movies has become a sith.

We have two Dark Jedi. Anakin Skywalker and Count Dooku. I can't elaborate on the latter, but Anakin doesn't become a Sith until he takes the title of Darth Vader and begins specific training under the Emperor. Before that time, when he turns to the dark side as a Jedi Knight, he becomes a Dark Jedi by default.

"Their fire has gone out of the universe. You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion."

I think it may require special training to use the darkside properly an that is why a jedi who leaves the order will not be able to use the darkside.

That must be why it's so quick and easy. I will say, however, that becoming a Sith requires very specific training.

 

Darth-skycrawler, okay let's run with your idea just for fun shall we ? First off, by your logic, we shouldn't even be having this conversation about Mara Jade because she wasn't in the movies and hence doesn't exist. Also, we should note that the Galactic Empire contains only about 7 systems, since no others were in the movies. There also are no Yuuzhan Vong, so really there is no reason to be worried about them, as they're not movies. And of course, every single character we meet in the movies must be in quite a bit of pain right now, as there are no toilets or 'refreshers' in the movies, and hence they have no way of relieving themselves.

This logic, as you can see, gets a little arkward, but i'm sure you'd like to enlighten us.

 

ROFL Buuuuuuuurn.

 

DaJames,

Also by that logic, no one built the first Death Star, Star Destgroyers, X-wings, Y-wings, A-wings, TIE fightersd, TIE bombers, TIE interceptors, Mon Calamari battle cruisers, and on and on and on, in fact, no one has sex to procreate and therefore no characters are born and nor do they die, since it wasn't seen in the movies. Everything JUST IS. No beginnings, no endings, just a middle that is watched and known as the 4 soon to be 5 Star Wars movies. There is nothing outside the movies except speculation which, regardless of how baseless or foolish, is somehow just as valid as the Expanded Universe. Makes me wonder what they actually talk about in the movie forums.

Because there you have a better chance of being regarded positively for saying that X-wings are hatched out of eggs rather than products of the Incom Corporation.

 

Kimball_Kinnison,

The Rule of Two was outlined in the novelizations and I don't really consider the novelizations to be EU. They're certainly prone to error just as the movies themselves are but there's a definite difference between and adaptation of Lucas' own work, written under his supervision
near the end of the creative process and an original work written by a clueles EU author who doesn't have the overall vision in mind and I'm convinced in some cases, haven't even seen any of the films.

DaJames2,

The Rule of Two was made because more than two Dark Side users will turn on and destroy each other. No real difference between Dark Side users and Sith has been established and there's no reason to suggest that a Dark Side user who doesn't hold the 'Sith' label wouldn't be able to take on a Sith. So while it is possible that there are people who use the Dark Side of the Force, that doesn't change the fact that the very existence of more than 2 Dark Side users in Palpatine's emply goes against the Rule of Two.

 

If they say so...

Just wondering why there is also a mention in Jedi Apprentice #3 about Obi-Wan remembering his brother... Owen.

 

The star wars character guide also states that Owen is Obi-Wan's brother